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Author Topic: TLOS: any comments from Mike, Al or Bruce yet?  (Read 24767 times)
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« Reply #50 on: September 22, 2008, 09:02:34 PM »

You left out Brian's falsetto part on Getcha back.

Bob Dylan who has a less pleasing voice than Brian's (and is even worse asa concert performer than Brian) went to number 1 with his last album. I don't think Brian's voice is as much a barrier to his lack of commercial success as you like to think it is. 

Well Dylan was never known for his great singing.  :-)  I don't think Brian Wilson's voice is what is roadblocking his commercial success either.  I just don't believe that TLOS has enough commercial "oomph" to get significant airplay or break the Top 10 charts.  And the reason I don't believe this is because the album doesn't sound like anything you typically hear on the radio today.  It's just not the same kind of "hip".   

And I don't disagree with Luther's comments.  Of course the industry has always tried to make a buck and of course sex sells.  But the difference is that while Elvis and the Rolling Stones might have been "in-your-face" with sex appeal, they also had a great deal of substance in their music; something I don't see quite as much with today's artists.  The Stones have had a successful 40+ years making music and performing.  And there are many artists their age that still carry relevance in the industry.  How many artists that have been around in the last 10 years will achieve the same lengthy career?  Not nearly as many I'm thinking. 
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« Reply #51 on: September 22, 2008, 10:12:38 PM »

You left out Brian's falsetto part on Getcha back.

Bob Dylan who has a less pleasing voice than Brian's (and is even worse asa concert performer than Brian) went to number 1 with his last album. I don't think Brian's voice is as much a barrier to his lack of commercial success as you like to think it is. 

Well Dylan was never known for his great singing.  :-)  I don't think Brian Wilson's voice is what is roadblocking his commercial success either.  I just don't believe that TLOS has enough commercial "oomph" to get significant airplay or break the Top 10 charts.  And the reason I don't believe this is because the album doesn't sound like anything you typically hear on the radio today.  It's just not the same kind of "hip".   

And I don't disagree with Luther's comments.  Of course the industry has always tried to make a buck and of course sex sells.  But the difference is that while Elvis and the Rolling Stones might have been "in-your-face" with sex appeal, they also had a great deal of substance in their music; something I don't see quite as much with today's artists.  The Stones have had a successful 40+ years making music and performing.  And there are many artists their age that still carry relevance in the industry.  How many artists that have been around in the last 10 years will achieve the same lengthy career?  Not nearly as many I'm thinking. 

Well, at least not many of the ones getting overplayed on MTV and top 40 radio. I think a lot of modern indie/alternative artists could have career longevity, though.
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« Reply #52 on: September 22, 2008, 11:33:04 PM »

You left out Brian's falsetto part on Getcha back.

Bob Dylan who has a less pleasing voice than Brian's (and is even worse asa concert performer than Brian) went to number 1 with his last album. I don't think Brian's voice is as much a barrier to his lack of commercial success as you like to think it is. 
I thought that was Jeff Foskett singing the falsetto part.

And Bob Dylan is a far more respected songwriter than Brian Wilson is.
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« Reply #53 on: September 23, 2008, 01:11:12 AM »

You left out Brian's falsetto part on Getcha back.

Bob Dylan who has a less pleasing voice than Brian's (and is even worse asa concert performer than Brian) went to number 1 with his last album. I don't think Brian's voice is as much a barrier to his lack of commercial success as you like to think it is. 
I thought that was Jeff Foskett singing the falsetto part.

And Bob Dylan is a far more respected songwriter than Brian Wilson is.

I have to put in two cents about Bob Dylan being a "more respected" songwriter than Brian. It's really
like comparing apples and oranges. Of course, Bob Dylan is one of, if not THE most, respected pop/folk/
rock songwriters in history, along with Lennon & McCartney, and the total quantity of top-caliber songs
that Brian wrote may not be as high as Dylan, but it's a very subjective comparison, and they are both
generally in the same sphere of regard. Their work is so different from each other that it's not really
comparable and they are both undoubtedly considered in the highest echelon of songwriting talent, at
least with regard to their earlier work.
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« Reply #54 on: September 23, 2008, 01:49:27 AM »

And Bob Dylan is a far more respected songwriter than Brian Wilson is.

I have a theory about that. One of the reasons why Bob Dylan is such a respected songwriter is because everybody and their brother have recorded his songs, right? And I don't think that's because his songs were just better than Brian's... I think it has more to do with the fact that his songs are just a lot easier to cover and to make your own.
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« Reply #55 on: September 23, 2008, 02:50:12 AM »

First of all, I think that Brian's voice now beats the hell out of Mike Love's voice since, oh, 1978. Yeah, Brian is not what he used to be, but the Mike Love vocals on Getcha Back and the few concert clips I'v seen are terrible. His voice on Kokomo is OK, but that higher pitched nasally voice(which worked on their early hits)? He lost that years ago. Brian sounds much better to me.

Secondly, Luther I disagree with you: I think that society's vallues have changed since the fifties and sixties; the sixties were all about changing values, after all. I could rattle off a list of differences in values between my grandparents' generation and my generation, but I'm too busy!! Think about your grandparents, your parents and your own generation. There are massive differences, even though perhaps some things do stay the same. Compare the political and economic positions of the USA or Europe with their relative positions now. Society HAS changed in the last fifty years in many ways.

 Some of those changes have been for the better, but some have not. It is reasonable to assume that pop music would reflect that change.
(But all this is a bit off-topic.)

That said, a lot of today's music is great--much of it just doesn't apparently make the pop charts, being as it is marketed to increasingly smaller segments of the population. In the sixties there was a subculture; now there are dozens of subcultures. And I think that radio, in particular, is far more corporatized than it was in the sixties, no matter how corporate it was then. Simply put nearly all radio stations are crap--there are a few good ones here and there, sure, but drive around the USA or Europe and you will find that the great majority of them are terrible. Most of them are owned by Clear Channel. Homogenization and globalization are not just a myth--it's something that affects people's daily lives.

 It's not so much that I hate modern top forty music, some of it is pretty cool--it's that I do feel that the cream no longer rises to the top most of the time. IN the past of course it didn't always rise to the top--you had payola scandals and backroom deals going on--but something is different in pop music, and there is something crasser and more calculating about it.
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« Reply #56 on: September 23, 2008, 05:42:57 AM »

First of all, I think that Brian's voice now beats the hell out of Mike Love's voice since, oh, 1978. Yeah, Brian is not what he used to be, but the Mike Love vocals on Getcha Back and the few concert clips I'v seen are terrible. His voice on Kokomo is OK, but that higher pitched nasally voice(which worked on their early hits)? He lost that years ago. Brian sounds much better to me.

I disagree. Brian's voice anytime now and Mike's when he's singing the higher pitched songs on stage are equally hideous. But Mike's soft voice, while a shadow of it was in 1970 (All I Wanna Do), is still halfway decent. Like, no one's gonna ask if he ever had a stroke.

Brian's solo albums would sell beyond his fan base if he were able to:
a. sing like he did in his prime
and/or...
b. write songs like he did in his prime

Unfair? Maybe. But that's reality.
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« Reply #57 on: September 23, 2008, 05:58:12 AM »

OK, Mike's soft voice is still good. But I wouldn't characterize Brian's voice of today as "hideous."

the problem with what you said otherwise, is that even in his prime Brian hardly wrote loads of hit albums. Three years or four  years that was pretty much it. TLOS is his highest charting album since 15 Big Ones and before that Pet Sounds!

And I'm sorry, I also disagree with your argument as it seems to imply: good songs=commercial appeal. I just don't think that's true. Also, I like TLOS and think it's a very good album, but that's a matter of taste, of course.

 Comparing Dylan to Brian is in some ways apples to oranges-they are somehow different musicians, with different influences, tastes and appeals. There's no doubt that the fact that Modern Times was a decent album helped to make it number one, but I don't believe that most people bought it because it was good. There are probably lots of factors as to why an album hits big; and not least of all the notion that Bob Dylan is a genius and Brian Wilson is the guy who did those rather fluffy surf songs.
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« Reply #58 on: September 23, 2008, 06:15:39 AM »

the problem with what you said otherwise, is that even in his prime Brian hardly wrote loads of hit albums. Three years or four  years that was pretty much it. TLOS is his highest charting album since 15 Big Ones and before that Pet Sounds!

And I'm sorry, I also disagree with your argument as it seems to imply: good songs=commercial appeal. I just don't think that's true. Also, I like TLOS and think it's a very good album, but that's a matter of taste, of course.

Oh, I meant "in his prime" in terms of quality, like 60's and 70's (YMMV).

Comparing Dylan to Brian is in some ways apples to oranges-they are somehow different musicians, with different influences, tastes and appeals. There's no doubt that the fact that Modern Times was a decent album helped to make it number one, but I don't believe that most people bought it because it was good. There are probably lots of factors as to why an album hits big; and not least of all the notion that Bob Dylan is a genius and Brian Wilson is the guy who did those rather fluffy surf songs.

Dylan's latter day success ia a bit of a mistery for me too. I guess Bob's been better at self-promoting through the decades.
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« Reply #59 on: September 23, 2008, 06:32:37 AM »

What's "YMMV"?
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« Reply #60 on: September 23, 2008, 06:40:20 AM »

What's "YMMV"?

Your mileage may vary, I believe.
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« Reply #61 on: September 23, 2008, 06:41:24 AM »

Though Brian's voice is obviously not nearly as good as it's been, I've grown to like his 'new' voice. I think it sounds warm, friendly and gentle and has a lot of character.
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« Reply #62 on: September 23, 2008, 06:42:47 AM »

What's "YMMV"?
Your mileage may vary, I believe.
Exactly. Thanks.
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« Reply #63 on: September 23, 2008, 07:29:54 AM »

Though Brian's voice is obviously not nearly as good as it's been, I've grown to like his 'new' voice. I think it sounds warm, friendly and gentle and has a lot of character.

Well, at least it sounds much more natural on TLOS than on any of his other soloalbums imho. He definitely improved.


BTW one of northern-Germany's biggest radio stations played about a week or so ago the "MAD"-suite, say "Can't wait too long"-"MAD"-"TLOS-reprise". Was beautiful to hear it on a regular radio station
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« Reply #64 on: September 23, 2008, 07:50:51 AM »

the problem with what you said otherwise, is that even in his prime Brian hardly wrote loads of hit albums. Three years or four  years that was pretty much it. TLOS is his highest charting album since 15 Big Ones and before that Pet Sounds!

And I'm sorry, I also disagree with your argument as it seems to imply: good songs=commercial appeal. I just don't think that's true. Also, I like TLOS and think it's a very good album, but that's a matter of taste, of course.

Oh, I meant "in his prime" in terms of quality, like 60's and 70's (YMMV).

Comparing Dylan to Brian is in some ways apples to oranges-they are somehow different musicians, with different influences, tastes and appeals. There's no doubt that the fact that Modern Times was a decent album helped to make it number one, but I don't believe that most people bought it because it was good. There are probably lots of factors as to why an album hits big; and not least of all the notion that Bob Dylan is a genius and Brian Wilson is the guy who did those rather fluffy surf songs.

Dylan's latter day success ia a bit of a mistery for me too. I guess Bob's been better at self-promoting through the decades.
I agree that his prime was definitely the sixties and seventies, but other than 63-66/early 67, he has always been uncommercial. Your argument seemed to be: if the music was better, he'd reach a broader fan base. I'm saying, the music is good and in his greatest years he did not reach a broader fan base--in fact his albums charted significantly lower than TLOS! In other words, your argument which seems to somehow be equalling appeal with quality is bogus. I'm really  not trying to be a dick by any means but the facts are there--Discounting greatest hits style packages he's He's had two top 25 albums in the last twenty--no, make that FORTY!  years--TLOS and 15BO. So the quality=broader base of listeners thing doesn't really work.

 In terms of chart numbers and speaking only of the USA, he is more popular now than during the Friends, Sunflower or Love You eras--which most people would consider his prime.

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« Reply #65 on: September 23, 2008, 09:35:44 AM »

I really don't know how far 'Love You' reached beyond the diehard fans in 1977. And maybe all the diehard fans running to the stores to buy a whole album produced and written by Brian Wilson in the week of release didn't have the same effect in the charts as TLOS in 2008, with the abismal CD sales that plague the industry.
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« Reply #66 on: September 23, 2008, 01:40:57 PM »

Hmmm...so maybe there actually more of his biggest fans around thirty years later? Or maybe Brian Wilson fans or more likely to actually buy his music than the fan of, I dont know, someone more commercial?

That I can buy. Smiley
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« Reply #67 on: September 23, 2008, 03:31:41 PM »

Hmmm...so maybe there actually more of his biggest fans around thirty years later?

No, lots of people can die in 31 years.  Smiley

Or maybe Brian Wilson fans or more likely to actually buy his music than the fan of, I dont know, someone more commercial?

I don't know about that, but they're very good at blaming the record company when the new turkey fails to sell.  Smiley
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« Reply #68 on: September 23, 2008, 05:10:02 PM »

Quote
In terms of chart numbers and speaking only of the USA, he is more popular now than during the Friends, Sunflower or Love You eras--which most people would consider his prime.

Good point.
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« Reply #69 on: September 23, 2008, 08:07:56 PM »

the problem with what you said otherwise, is that even in his prime Brian hardly wrote loads of hit albums. Three years or four  years that was pretty much it. TLOS is his highest charting album since 15 Big Ones and before that Pet Sounds!

And I'm sorry, I also disagree with your argument as it seems to imply: good songs=commercial appeal. I just don't think that's true. Also, I like TLOS and think it's a very good album, but that's a matter of taste, of course.

Oh, I meant "in his prime" in terms of quality, like 60's and 70's (YMMV).

Comparing Dylan to Brian is in some ways apples to oranges-they are somehow different musicians, with different influences, tastes and appeals. There's no doubt that the fact that Modern Times was a decent album helped to make it number one, but I don't believe that most people bought it because it was good. There are probably lots of factors as to why an album hits big; and not least of all the notion that Bob Dylan is a genius and Brian Wilson is the guy who did those rather fluffy surf songs.

Dylan's latter day success ia a bit of a mistery for me too. I guess Bob's been better at self-promoting through the decades.
I agree that his prime was definitely the sixties and seventies, but other than 63-66/early 67, he has always been uncommercial. Your argument seemed to be: if the music was better, he'd reach a broader fan base. I'm saying, the music is good and in his greatest years he did not reach a broader fan base--in fact his albums charted significantly lower than TLOS! In other words, your argument which seems to somehow be equalling appeal with quality is bogus. I'm really  not trying to be a dick by any means but the facts are there--Discounting greatest hits style packages he's He's had two top 25 albums in the last twenty--no, make that FORTY!  years--TLOS and 15BO. So the quality=broader base of listeners thing doesn't really work.

 In terms of chart numbers and speaking only of the USA, he is more popular now than during the Friends, Sunflower or Love You eras--which most people would consider his prime.


Don't forget BWPS, #13 US and # 7 UK.
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« Reply #70 on: September 23, 2008, 09:22:55 PM »

I totally forgot that one.
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« Reply #71 on: September 23, 2008, 09:50:44 PM »

More proof that quality sells.
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« Reply #72 on: September 24, 2008, 01:59:43 AM »

Quote
In terms of chart numbers and speaking only of the USA, he is more popular now than during the Friends, Sunflower or Love You eras--which most people would consider his prime.

Good point.

As has been pointed out already, Brian WIlson as a solo artist has had two top 40 albums in the UK and the US in the last four years. Doesn't that match or indeed better the Beach Boys entire post-Pet Sounds output? Like 40 years?

For an old guy he's actually had some chart success in this decade....but I think TLOS could and should have performed better in Europe.
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« Reply #73 on: September 24, 2008, 02:51:38 AM »

See, my theory is that quality has little to do with it. I think its all about promotion. Certainly in the country I live in there is simply NO promotion, there is not even a wikipedia article in the native tongue on Brian Wilson.

My guess is that Capitol-EMI intentionallz focussed all their efforts on the American market because more Americans buy CDs because CD's are cheap there-- there is little incentive to buy CDs  elsewhere(my copy of TLOS cost me over 40 bucks; you can understand why people here think I'm a fool for not illegally downloading all my music--and you can understand why companies don't waste money promoting anything but ultra cheap bargain bin stuff.)).
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« Reply #74 on: September 24, 2008, 03:57:00 AM »

Hmmm...so maybe there actually more of his biggest fans around thirty years later?

The Beach Boys were has-beens and a golden oldies act in the 70s... Brian has now been 'adopted' by the alternative music scene as an icon... I think that's the difference...
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