Brian on Jay Leno

[Wirestone]

Except that the band on TLOS includes only two Wondermints. And one part-timer. The other seven or so have nothing to do with that group.

[Compost]

So call'em Brian Wilson & the Douchebags...what's in a name anyway?

[Sheriff John Stone]

Compost, I'm totally with you. Totally. It would be an extremely long post to point out why Brian Wilson should not be a solo artist. And, most of the people don't want to read (or admit) it anyway. But it would improve some of the weak areas and present a more honest and truer product. But who cares about honesty anyway....

[Compost]

Absolutely.  Despite the protestations of others, BW was not the only talent in the Beach Boys era and still isn't in his current "solo" incarnation.  The greater talent absolutely, but not an exclusive holder of 'gifts', especially today.  No one can say Sahananja, Bennett et al don't know their ****.

Were Brian 2008 of the same calibre as Brian 1966, it wouldn't be an indication of naturally enduring genius, it'd be a friggin' miracle!  He's old!  It's like expecting Muhammad Ali to get back in the ring and lay the beats, and then being disappointed that he had his *** handed to him.  It's O.K. with me.  All this nonsensical pressure on him by his fans to be  that which he once was is ludicrous. 

He deserves to take collaborators or be a part of an ensemble if it means he gets to keep making and performing music.  And that shouldn't devalue the finished product. 

[TheLazenby]

Here's the thing about those "disturbing" hand motions, and I realized this watching the Smile DVD...

Would it really be Brian without them?  I mean, he is the 'Adult Child' - his hand motions are just part of the charm of what he does.  They're not even random either, from what I can tell - he's either visually describing the lyrics, or conducting the band.  That'd be like telling Joe Cocker to stop that "stupid flailing thing" - it wouldn't be the same.

LEAVE BRIAN ALONE!  *sobs*

[Wirestone]

He didn't do them when he started touring. He fake played the piano.

Fans gave him sh*t -- rightfully so, perhaps. He was clearly not playing.

He did this for about a year. Then he started to do "conduct" the band during pieces of the Pet Sounds shows in 2000. Then he started to clap. And soon enough, he was doing the hand motions.

Believe it or not, fans at the time preferred them. I know I did.

But then they became increasingly elaborate -- and kinda strange. He's toned it down, actually -- I think they were at their worst aorund 02-04.

[the captain]

I think there are quite a few conversations going on here. To talk of fans, to ask "would it really be Brian?' is a different question altogether than what would a non-fan think. Speaking only for myself, my discussion of Brian's peculiarities within this thread related to what a non-fan catching him on Leno might think. It's a completely different thing than "what do you think?"

[Pretty Funky]

Ah, it's the old "negativity is the only honesty" trick.

So the people who like it aren't being honest? Or not as honest as the people who do?

The only true Brian Wilson fan, you see, is someone contemptuous of Brian Wison.

eh...I was thinking more along the lines of this project being either very good for some and very bad for others and I can't think of another Brian Wilson album, show, DVD or anything else in the last 5 years of me being on these message boards that has got such a diverse reaction. We have had reviews ranging from 1 out of 5 to 4 out of 5.

Here's another 4!

http://www.themaneater.com/stories/2008/9/4/brian-wilsons-new-album-daring-nostalgic/

The posters on this site have been very tolerant in allowing those that like it to say so and those that don't to say so. Unlike some boards where Brian can do no wrong.

Isn't that what we are all here for? A bit of objectivity!

[Wirestone]

I think there are quite a few conversations going on here. To talk of fans, to ask "would it really be Brian?' is a different question altogether than what would a non-fan think. Speaking only for myself, my discussion of Brian's peculiarities within this thread related to what a non-fan catching him on Leno might think. It's a completely different thing than "what do you think?"

Good point, Luther. I think that the euphoria that a lot of people had when Brian returned to live performing (he did a whole show without running off the stage!) has led sometimes to him being put in a place where non-fans would see him as a curiousity. That is, he was willing and able to do shows -- but he was and is and will be somewhat odd. This is somewhat easier to deal with in live shows, where lengthy set lists and band energy can compensate for and (often) overcome his shortcomings. But on television, it's just difficult.

It's a conundrum, and I don't think Brian's folks have figured it out. They tried with the Christmas album to just have him lip sync on Leno -- that certainly sounded great, but Brian can't lip sync particularly accurately. The alternative, I suppose, is just not to have promotion. So ...

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Exactly.  Have him as part of his band, not the feature presentation itself.

Not what I meant. I meant Brian out there by himself, singing and playing the piano. Like the SNL Good Vibrations performance, just not coked up.

[Pretty Funky]

I'd pay good money to see Brian on piano with Jeff plus maybe Billy in a small informal venue. Same format as the Jeff/ Billy shows I read about in the UK a few years back. Q and A session, requests and sing-a-long. Stories from long ago and new and old tunes.

No money in it but would be great for Brian to get close to his fans but in a way that would make him comfortable.

[Sheriff John Stone]

The alternative, I suppose, is just not to have promotion. So ...

I said that two pages ago.

Why is it necessary for Brian to do TV appearances? Overcoming demons? Proving that he's "back"? Spreading those good vibrations to the world? Are they THAT desperate to sell albums? We like to mention or consider Brian in the same breath as a Dylan, McCartney, and other legends. And rightfully so, he belongs there. But not all of those artists feel the need to appear on late night TV, at 12:31 ET, singing their "next single", after stupid pet tricks. Unless they really enjoy it. Does Brian enjoy it?

[the captain]

Are you calling that little pianist kid "pet tricks"? 

[Sheriff John Stone]

Are you calling that little pianist kid "pet tricks"? 

Hey, that kid was great, a real talent. I could say something but I better not....

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I'd pay good money to see Brian on piano with Jeff plus maybe Billy in a small informal venue. Same format as the Jeff/ Billy shows I read about in the UK a few years back. Q and A session, requests and sing-a-long. Stories from long ago and new and old tunes.

No money in it but would be great for Brian to get close to his fans but in a way that would make him comfortable.

Amen.

[Shady]

The alternative, I suppose, is just not to have promotion. So ...

I said that two pages ago.

Why is it necessary for Brian to do TV appearances? Overcoming demons? Proving that he's "back"? Spreading those good vibrations to the world? Are they THAT desperate to sell albums? We like to mention or consider Brian in the same breath as a Dylan, McCartney, and other legends. And rightfully so, he belongs there. But not all of those artists feel the need to appear on late night TV, at 12:31 ET, singing their "next single", after stupid pet tricks. Unless they really enjoy it. Does Brian enjoy it?

Dylan selling out to iTunes!
McCartney selling out to Starbucks!

Are they that desperate to sell albums?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

In a word...yes.

[Wilsonista]

You know what BriMel and Capitol should have done? Get Brian an iPod commercial. Going Home would be perfect for that, I think.

[Wirestone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKugEi4osdY

Jerry Lee Lewis (72 years old) carted onto the Letterman show to sell his latest album. He's a bona fide legend. But there he is.

So yes, artists do want to sell albums. And they perform to do that -- even artists who are old and unsteady looking.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

You know what BriMel and Capitol should have done? Get Brian an iPod commercial. Going Home would be perfect for that, I think.

Great idea. Hey, it worked for the Stones & "She's a rainbow" in that one commercial from a few years ago.

[Sheriff John Stone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKugEi4osdY

Jerry Lee Lewis (72 years old) carted onto the Letterman show to sell his latest album. He's a bona fide legend. But there he is.

So yes, artists do want to sell albums. And they perform to do that -- even artists who are old and unsteady looking.

Thanks for the link, claymcc. Love the Killer! I thought you might bring out Ringo. Or Neil Diamond. Any recent Lou Reed or Leonard Cohen on TV? I saw Tony Bennett promoting that Duets album last year. And who can leave out Willie Nelson. We'll soon be seeing the Wichita Lineman.

Of course, none of them have anything to do with my point. Hey, I think it's great that those old guys are out there doing it. I've said many times, even on this board, that we take our legends for granted. I'm as sentimental as anyone; I was getting emotional the other night watching The Last Waltz! It's hard to believe that Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Fats Domino, and Jerry Lee Lewis are still alive - and some still performing! And even the younger ones like Dylan, McCartney, Ray Davies, Paul Simon, Eric Clapton, and Mike Love   As long as they are healthy enough to do it, WANT to do it, and have an audience out there to support them, I think they should continue. I saw Sinatra in concert when he was in his 70's and loved it. Heck, I'm still wishing Ray, Robby, and John would kiss and make up and record something together.

My point was that SOME legends don't feel it's necessary to appear on late night TV shows, and I wish BW was one of them. And I was questioning whether A) Brian's TV appearances do more harm than good, and B) Do you think he enjoys doing them?

And, of course, next week, after TLOS shoots up the album charts, I'll sign on my computer to read, "Hey SJS, so that Jay Leno appearance didn't do any good? What'd you know...." All these people, make me feel so alone....

[Ron]

I missed it..DVR didn't record the whole show. Grrr....

Join the club.  I was pissed, but I should have thought and recorded the show after it as well to make sure.

[Ron]

Everybody's explanations are meant to minimalize Brian's role in whatever they do, i.e. share more of the singing with the rest of the band, etc. 

What would that accomplish?  do you actually think Brian is making music to please anybody?  at BEST he's trying to please Melinda (to paraphrase something I heard John Lennon say once).

I doubt he cares if the audience thought he moved strangely.  He's from Hawthorne.  The only people I've ever seen from Hawthorne are the various members of the group, and frankly everyone of them was pretty much a dork.  Telling Brian to stop waving his hands is like telling him to stop speaking out of the side of his mouth.  It's who he is.  There's no need to chance it, even to make the performance better, because he'd revert right back to it.

If you don't think it was a good performance, so what?  Do you honestly think if Brian worked his ass off and made every performance perfect, that he'd be any happier?  He might sell some more records, but the man doesn't need more cash.  He's critically acclaimed everytime he drops an album, he has millions of fans around the world, he's widely considered one of the greatest songwriters of all time... he really doesn't have anything to prove to anybody and has no ambition or desire to improve his vocal performance, or his stage mannerisms. 

I'm not saying you all have to enjoy it, I'm just saying it's about as good as it's going to get.  Everybody knows Brian's always been a basketcase, and some days are better than other.  Next time he's on t.v. he'll probably rock the entire song, this performance, he didn't. 

Watching a t.v. show then deciding Brian should rename his band to hide himself inside of it is the most idiotic thing I've heard since that fool above decided to throw politics into it. 

[Compost]

Watching a t.v. show then deciding Brian should rename his band to hide himself inside of it is the most idiotic thing I've heard since that fool above decided to throw politics into it. 

Easy big fella.
If this is in reference to my suggestion of a name change and more honest credit sharing, then first off, chill-out. 
My belief that he should rename his act stems from the glaring reality that he already is part of a band but is masquerading as a solo artist.  Check the credits of the album and then tell me that 'Additional Production' and 'Additional Arrangements' in small print doesn't seem a little dishonest. 
As for his performance on  Leno...he contributed about 1% of the total energy on stage.

Brian Wilson is the **** but his sales pitch sucks.

I repeat:

'That Lucky Old Sun' by Brian Wilson & the Douchebags (or whateva)
Songs by Brian Wilson, Scott Bennett and Van Dyke Parks
Produced by Brian Wilson & Scott Bennett
Arranged by Brian Wilson, Paul Von Mertens, Darian Sahahnaja and Scott Bennett

No harm in that!

[the captain]

Watching a t.v. show then deciding Brian should rename his band to hide himself inside of it is the most idiotic thing I've heard since that fool above decided to throw politics into it. 

I assume you mean me. If you're going to call me a fool, be an adult and use my name, speak to me directly. Don't make snide comments well after the post that apparently offended you so. Or better, learn to express yourself without intentionally and directly insulting people: "that's the most idiotic thing...," "that fool above," etc.