TLOS on vinyl

[Beach Bum]

Tested the turntable. First time it has been on for at least 3 years. All systems go.

T-minus 48 hours or so until liftoff. (I refuse to get my hopes up that it will arrive on Tuesday).

If you don't hear Brian's major contributions musically to "Southern California," then you can't hear Brian.

Stay off of my cloud!

[Andrew G. Doe]

AGD posted it a couple of days ago.

Music -- Wilson
Words -- Bennett

No, that's what they want us to think. In reality it's not a clean cut, Scott did work on the music quite a bit.

buddhahat: I don't mean to pull an "AGD"    but I can only say that I have discussed this with someone involved with the album.

I think a more accurate picture of 'who-did-what' might be that Brian came up with the original melody, which Scott fine-tuned. I've spoken with a few people involved with the project, and this seems the closest approximation to a rather gray subject.

[Andrew G. Doe]

PS: the credits confirmed something that I was told some time ago - for whatever reason Mark didn't mix the album. Odd...

[Wirestone]

The third mixer is apparently a Scott confidant -- plays on the Dotted Line album.

Although, I have to say -- from the samples I'm pretty pleased with the mix we did get.

[buddhahat]

AGD posted it a couple of days ago.

Music -- Wilson
Words -- Bennett

No, that's what they want us to think. In reality it's not a clean cut, Scott did work on the music quite a bit.

buddhahat: I don't mean to pull an "AGD"    but I can only say that I have discussed this with someone involved with the album.

Thanks for this. Well I'm just pleased to hear that BW did have a hand in this as, from everything I'd heard, I thought he had nothing to do with it.

[the captain]

Who the foda cares who did what?  If it's anything like the demos and live shows, it's gonna be amazing... dare I say one of BW's best solos with some parts rivaling anything he's done since "Til I Die"

I've got to say, I care who did what. The answers won't change my thoughts about the music itself, but it's always interesting (well, not always ... sometimes it can get a little too detailed for me) to know, anyway.

[Andrew G. Doe]

No, that's what they want us to think. In reality it's not a clean cut, Scott did work on the music quite a bit.

Who the foda cares who did what? 

Good point - I guess it doesn't matter if anyone thinks Mike, and not Brian, wrote all the music, or that Nik Venet really did produce the first two albums. What is truth, said jesting Pilate, but would not wait for an answer.

[Aegir]

And didn't Gary Usher write the music to Lonely Sea and Brian wrote the words?

[Ron]

PS: the credits confirmed something that I was told some time ago - for whatever reason Mark didn't mix the album. Odd...

I thought from the sound of the samples that are floating around that it sounded mixed differently than usual.  It's not as thick and full like Brian's stuff usually is, not that it necessarilly sounds worse or better, just different.  That would certainly explain it.  I hope Mark's not totally out of the picture, he's done a lot to preserve the beach boys sound over the years. 

[MBE]

Mine shipped today. I am very excited.

[RickD]

Who the foda cares who did what? 

Scott Bennett, probably

[buddhahat]

Who the foda cares who did what?  If it's anything like the demos and live shows, it's gonna be amazing... dare I say one of BW's best solos with some parts rivaling anything he's done since "Til I Die"

I've got to say, I care who did what. The answers won't change my thoughts about the music itself, but it's always interesting (well, not always ... sometimes it can get a little too detailed for me) to know, anyway.

Yes I do care who did what, and unfortunately it does tend to to colour my appreciation of the music. It shouldn't matter if BW was 100 or 0% involved but it does to me. And so I have to ask the million dollar question: Is Brian involved at all with the arrangements of the songs or is that entirely down to his bandmates? Surely I would think he does makes decisions about which instruments go where, and also vocal arrangements, right, or does he just write the songs on piano and then have little to do with them after that?

[mikeyj]

And so I have to ask the million dollar question: Is Brian involved at all with the arrangements of the songs or is that entirely down to his bandmates? Surely I would think he does makes decisions about which instruments go where, and also vocal arrangements, right, or does he just write the songs on piano and then have a little to do with them after that?

Not 100% sure but I would guess Brian at least makes suggestions about the arrangements and at the very least he would at least have to give his approval like "yes I think that guitar part sounds good" or whatever. But Paul Mertens did the string and brass arrangements as far as I know.

[buddhahat]

And so I have to ask the million dollar question: Is Brian involved at all with the arrangements of the songs or is that entirely down to his bandmates? Surely I would think he does makes decisions about which instruments go where, and also vocal arrangements, right, or does he just write the songs on piano and then have a little to do with them after that?

Not 100% sure but I would guess Brian at least makes suggestions about the arrangements and at the very least he would at least have to give his approval like "yes I think that guitar part sounds good" or whatever. But Paul Mertens did the string and brass arrangements as far as I know.

Thanks Mikey J. I guess logic would suggest that if he wrote the songs, he'd have an interest in how they were arranged.

[lance]

I'd be interested to know how they are arranged. But it won't color my appreciation. There are a lot of great musicians that give free rein(yes, that's how it should be spelled) to their musicians to come up with arrangements--not every album Wilson makes has to be as tightly controlled as, say, Pet Sounds(and even that was probably to some extent a collaborative effort, arrangement-wise.) I think if you really, really, really want Brian to be some kind of "pop Mozart", controlling everything on the record and coming up with it himself, then it matters. If you only want him to make good music...it really doesn't matter--no more than it does for lots of other great musicians.

[mikeyj]

I'd be interested to know how they are arranged. But it won't color my appreciation. There are a lot of great musicians that give free rein(yes, that's how it should be spelled) to their musicians to come up with arrangements--not every album Wilson makes has to be as tightly controlled as, say, Pet Sounds(and even that was probably to some extent a collaborative effort, arrangement-wise.) I think if you really, really, really want Brian to be some kind of "pop Mozart", controlling everything on the record and coming up with it himself, then it matters. If you only want him to make good music...it really doesn't matter--no more than it does for lots of other great musicians.

Who says Mozart didn't have any help? But you are totally right about Pet Sounds too. Just listening to the sessions you can hear the musicians giving Brian suggestions etc.. or coming up with parts so that Brian says "okay let's try that"... for example: God Only Knows and also Sloop John B.

[Wirestone]

If you hear the TLOS demos, that would give you a basic understanding of what Brian contributed arrangement-wise, I think. Obviously they are recorded with Scott, but the two were collaborating on them -- and you can hear basslines and basic accompanying figures, etc. When the band got the demos and rehearsed, things became fuller, but most of those basic arrangement touches were preserved.

Brian has always said, for what it's worth, that he can't hear the entire arrangement in his head. He has to start recording the songs to get a better idea of how to put them together. And he has always had help -- from the 60s onward -- in that department. (What do Brian's solo arrangements sound like? Try Love You. Then, subtract the synths. Viola! You get the TLOS demos.)

[lance]

I'd be interested to know how they are arranged. But it won't color my appreciation. There are a lot of great musicians that give free rein(yes, that's how it should be spelled) to their musicians to come up with arrangements--not every album Wilson makes has to be as tightly controlled as, say, Pet Sounds(and even that was probably to some extent a collaborative effort, arrangement-wise.) I think if you really, really, really want Brian to be some kind of "pop Mozart", controlling everything on the record and coming up with it himself, then it matters. If you only want him to make good music...it really doesn't matter--no more than it does for lots of other great musicians.

Who says Mozart didn't have any help?

I always thought that what made Mozart Mozart was that he did everything without rewrites, all his works were first drafts composed at a piano at home. As opposed to, say, Beethoven, who reworked his stuff many times.

[Compost]

I'll wager that if we juxtaposed the discussions surrounding the release of 'BWPS' with this one, there'd be virtually no difference...and still no definitive proof of anything clandestine.

And Mozart was dead at 35.

Any track reviews from some (one?) of you lucky snipers?

[SG7]

I'm supposed to be getting it today as an early birthday present, so I will act totally surprised  I'm getting Brian tickets today too for him to come to Philly, so I am psyched!

[pixletwin]

Little known fact:

Most of the big composers (modern day, I mean) don't do their own orchestrations. They give vague instructions to an orchestrator to flesh that stuff out. Not only that, but if a work is being recorded for the first time, often players will give the composers pointers and tips on different things. So I don't think it reflects badly on Brian if this was and is the case.

[absinthe_boy]

The classical composers also had conductors who would "translate" the music to the orchestra. Every classical composition has been re-arranged over the decades/centuries and yet nobody takes anything away from the composers. The works of the baroque composers in particular today sound very little like they would have when the composers were alive...the instruments have changed (particularly strings) and today NOBODY knows what the original arrangements would have been...yet we still credit Vivaldi with creating his Four Seasons.

Typically a classical piece would have all the parts written by the composer, but he might employ an arranger. And yes, the musicians would have input. Some composers would "try out" their works (often conducting themselves) and alter them depending on the reaction of the musicians and audience. Later conductors would  interpret the written music in their own way.

Never underestimate the potential influence of an orchestra's conductor...

[lance]

So the question is why is it a big deal to some people if BW does not come up with every single note in a production himself? Nobody else is held to that kind of standard, IMHO.

[The Heartical Don]

If you hear the TLOS demos, that would give you a basic understanding of what Brian contributed arrangement-wise, I think. Obviously they are recorded with Scott, but the two were collaborating on them -- and you can hear basslines and basic accompanying figures, etc. When the band got the demos and rehearsed, things became fuller, but most of those basic arrangement touches were preserved.

Brian has always said, for what it's worth, that he can't hear the entire arrangement in his head. He has to start recording the songs to get a better idea of how to put them together. And he has always had help -- from the 60s onward -- in that department. (What do Brian's solo arrangements sound like? Try Love You. Then, subtract the synths. Viola! You get the TLOS demos.)

Why bring in that instrument suddenly? Does Brian play that too?

[the captain]

So the question is why is it a big deal to some people if BW does not come up with every single note in a production himself? Nobody else is held to that kind of standard, IMHO.

Because they've bought and fallen in love with the idea of this crazy genius who could and did do it all, a one-man-band and production team. You know, the Boys go out on tour while Brian would write, arrange, engineer, perform, produce and mix records for them. It wasn't ever true, obviously. But it's a really enticing story. And once people are in and start realizing that he's just a really great pop musician (as opposed to a god or at least superhero), they get pissy.