Landy Questions

[Surfer Joe]

Over the years I've gotten the impression that nothing should be taken for granted when it comes to this guy.  I remember when I lived in Los Angeles and Phil Sloan wrote an angry letter to one of the trades to refute Landy's apparent claim to have produced "Eve Of Destruction".  In addition to Brian and Richard Harris, Landy is also widely reported as having treated Alice Cooper and Rod Steiger.

Have those last two ever been confirmed? Has George Benson ever spoken about him publicly? Was he ever really referred to in print as "Therapist to the stars", or did he originate that himself? Surely there are dozens of therapists who have treated more celebrities than those four (even provided that all four claims are legitimate).

[Aegir]

I know the Alice Cooper one is true. Landy was treating his alcoholism but apparently did a terrible job.

[Surfer Joe]

Thanks, Aegir- any information on this is very interesting to me- I've wondered for years.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I asked this question on another thread, and it was addressed to some extent. But since you started this thread, maybe it could be explored further.

Two obvious givens: I  am not a doctor, and I don't know the extent of Brian's problems in 1982. But this is my question, or problem with Landy's treatment. I always thought the two major problems with Brian in 1982 was his continued abuse of non-prescription drugs, and his morbid obesity/unhealthy habits. I wasn't sure if his mental illness (whatever the diagnosis) was that serious. By that I mean, was he acting so strangely that he needed to be institutionalized? I am now aware that Landy probably misdiagnosed Brian's condition, but I can't understand why it was necessary to put Brian on such heavy medication. I don't think those medications were necessary to wean Brian off of cocaine, cigarettes, and food. So, were they absolutely necessary to treat whatever mental illness Landy thought Brian had. What were the symptoms that Landy was trying to treat?

[MBE]

George Benson confirmed Landy helped get him started.

[carl r]

According Brian's ever-reliable biography, the drug treatment was not the single most important part of the therapy. The aim was to push Brian out of his comfort zone by relocating him into situations where he would have to engage himself and make decisions related to his own well-being. Landy's partial aim was to end the dependency of Brian upon other people which enabled him to disengage so much from reality. And also draw attention away from the persona Brian had created for himself which was comfortable for him its the lack of expectations. This I think is distinct from Brian's ongoing depression and schizoid-type illness (which we know as not being schizophrenia as such, but which traditional medicine has often failed to differentiate effectively)

I don't want to totally defend Landy, who was a problematic character, but I'm not sure that the over-medication was actually Landy's doing, and whether other patients with similar conditions to Brian would also have been over-medicated at this point in time. Psychiatry has sometimes been a less than exact medical science. It's possible Landy simply reflected the (faulty) consensus at the time.

It strikes me how badly it all worked out for Landy professionally, even if his fall from grace did involve retirement to Hawaii, which can never be too bad I guess...

I asked this question on another thread, and it was addressed to some extent. But since you started this thread, maybe it could be explored further.

Two obvious givens: I  am not a doctor, and I don't know the extent of Brian's problems in 1982. But this is my question, or problem with Landy's treatment. I always thought the two major problems with Brian in 1982 was his continued abuse of non-prescription drugs, and his morbid obesity/unhealthy habits. I wasn't sure if his mental illness (whatever the diagnosis) was that serious. By that I mean, was he acting so strangely that he needed to be institutionalized? I am now aware that Landy probably misdiagnosed Brian's condition, but I can't understand why it was necessary to put Brian on such heavy medication. I don't think those medications were necessary to wean Brian off of cocaine, cigarettes, and food. So, were they absolutely necessary to treat whatever mental illness Landy thought Brian had. What were the symptoms that Landy was trying to treat?

[Surfer Joe]

carl, I couldn't see it more differently.  I believe Landy picked a vulnerable patient's pocket for millions of dollars, isolated him personally, exploited him to a profound degree in numerous ways, and- based on some evidence- was deeply involved in- or at best complicit in- the drugging of Brian at a worse level than is generally known. I believe Brian is still paying a tragic price for those "services".  I believe that it was a very, very lucky man who left for Hawaii with everything but his California license and his reputation.

Just personal opinions, and I certainly respect the other view.

[37!ws]

I couldn't help but notice that in May Pang's book Loving John (for you Beatles non-fans, the "John" is John Lennon), there is a really sappy thanks to Dr. Eugene E. Landy and thanking him for being such a compassionate man (or something....too lazy to open the book)...anybody know what that's about???

[Alan Boyd]

From the Wikipedia Entry for the late Gig Young, Oscar-winning actor popular in the 50s and 60s:

Death

On October 19, 1978, three weeks after his marriage to Schmidt, the couple was found dead at home in their Manhattan apartment.  Police theorized that Young first shot his wife and then turned the gun on himself in a murder-suicide. After an investigation, police stated Young had acted on the spur of the moment and his actions were not planned.  The motive of the murder-suicide remains unclear.  It was later revealed that Young had been receiving psychiatric treatment—including experimental use of LSD—from the controversial psychologist Dr. Eugene Landy, who was later professionally decertified for his controlling treatment of Beach Boy Brian Wilson.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

LSD?! Holy sh*t.

[Surfer Joe]

Yeah....WOW.

I had wondered if he was involved with Gig Young at any time near when that happened.

[Surfer Joe]

Alan, this would be a stunning addition to the Landy saga, but after looking into it a little preliminarily, I'm going to personally consider it to be in the "unsubstantiated" file for now. 

The Wikipedia footnotes for this detail lead to two articles that don't mention or confirm that Landy prescribed LSD to Young around the time of his death.  There are numerous references to Young having been in Landy's care at the time of his death, but they don't have corroboration and for all I know, they could each be the source of the other references. What I have been able to find is a suggestion (unsourced) that Young was involved in LSD experiments in the early sixties.  The most intriguing lead I've found is a mention that Landy had appeared on an episode of E Channel's "Mysteries and Scandals" devoted to Young's death, so this could be the source of the information. 

I'd like to get this settled, one way or the other- whatever the truth may be.

[Pablo.]

I couldn't help but notice that in May Pang's book Loving John (for you Beatles non-fans, the "John" is John Lennon), there is a really sappy thanks to Dr. Eugene E. Landy and thanking him for being such a compassionate man (or something....too lazy to open the book)...anybody know what that's about???

She and her co writer thanks Landy for his compresion of the fragileties of the human soul and his study of the human behaviour (I'm paraphrasing from the Spanish edition) which were an inspiration during the hard times when they wrote the book. I assume that the psychobabble that pops up from time to time regarding Lennon's behavior comes from the Landy school. Actually, years ago, someone (David Propsky, I believe) inquired May about this on rec.music.beatles but she didn't answered.

[Alan Boyd]

There was a book published in the early 1990s about Gig Young and the circumstances of his death.... I think it was called "Final Gig."  I remember standing in a bookstore many years ago, picking up the book and leafing through it, and I recall being rather startled when I saw Dr. Landy mentioned in there.  I don't recall many of the specifics, though. 

[Sheriff John Stone]

In one of the biographies/documentaries, somebody (Timothy White?) said, and I'm paraphrasing, "Landy saved Brian's life, but if it wasn't him, it would've been somebody else". Or something to that effect. I've often thought about that. It is said that Brian saw quite a few psychiatrists before Landy, but I've never seen a number mentioned. So, my question is this, and it is in no way a shot at Marillyn: Does anybody ever wonder how different Brian's life and the history of The Beach Boys would be, if in late 1975, Marilyn hired a different doctor?

[mikeyj]

So, my question is this, and it is in no way a shot at Marillyn: Does anybody ever wonder how different Brian's life and the history of The Beach Boys would be, if in late 1975, Marilyn hired a different doctor?

Yes I have thought about that too Sheriff but I have always thought it pretty pointless to speculate what might have been. I mean who knows what would have been different? Would Brian have died? Would he have gotten back to his old self somehow? Would it have been any different? Who knows... in the end I think we are lucky to have Brian and we should be thankful that he is still creating any sort of music. But I also think Brian's survival just shows that he is stronger than some people give him credit for so maybe he would've pulled through with any other 'doctor'? Again, who knows...

[Bean Bag]

Great topic.

....back to LSD          (i've been wait to use that smile!)

...was the LSD back in the 50s and 60s different?  In Beautiful Dreamer that one dude (who annoyed me) said he gave Brian x amount of the "real stuff" or something like that.

[carl r]

LSD?! Holy sh*t.

Well, they've recently started doing LSD trials on terminally ill patients, the thinking being that this will enable them to work out ways in which to appreciate the time that is left to them. But I really don't know if and in what context Landy would have administered LSD - once again, I don't really want to defend the bloke when so much is unclear.

[Bicyclerider]

In the late 50's and early 60's the American Military was experimenting with LSD - Ken Kesey was one of the test subjects - and psychiatrists started experimenting with it as well.  Cary Grant took LSD under the guidance of his psychiatrist.  So it would not surprize me at all if Gig Young took it as well - but this was before it was illegal.  I doubt Gig Young would have been involved in something like that in the late 70's (or Landy - he would clearly lose his license for that).

[Andrew G. Doe]

Great topic.

....back to LSD          (i've been wait to use that smile!)

...was the LSD back in the 50s and 60s different?  In Beautiful Dreamer that one dude (who annoyed me) said he gave Brian x amount of the "real stuff" or something like that.

Back then, the acid was much purer and stronger.

[Jonas]

Interesting enough I was reading about this the other day, from Wikipedia:

Typical doses in the 1960s ranged from 200 to 1000µg while street samples of the 1970s contained 30 to 300µg. By the 1980s, the amount had reduced to between 100 to 125 µg, lowering more in the 1990s to the 20–80 µg range.

[Bean Bag]

Interesting enough I was reading about this the other day, from Wikipedia:

Typical doses in the 1960s ranged from 200 to 1000µg while street samples of the 1970s contained 30 to 300µg. By the 1980s, the amount had reduced to between 100 to 125 µg, lowering more in the 1990s to the 20–80 µg range.

OH MY GOD.   

Is it any freekin' wonder -- at those levels -- that guys like Syd Barrett never returned.  I remember hearing that the Mama's and Papa's wrote California Dreaming in the presence of a "bottle" of that stuff.  I'm no "chemist" or anything so I'm not too familiar with those measurements...but the difference between a drop of that stuff and, let's say a "small puddle" would be night and day ... to say the least.

And...it being more pure, probably doubles it further.  Insane. 

[Jonas]

I meant to include this, this might help a bit, again from Wikipedia:

Dosages of LSD are measured in micrograms (µg), or millionths of a gram. By comparison, dosages of almost all other drugs, both recreational and medicinal, are measured in milligrams (mg), or thousandths of a gram. Hofmann determined that an active dose of mescaline, roughly 0.2 to 0.5g, has effects comparable to 100µg or less of LSD; put another way, LSD is between five to ten thousand times more active than mescaline. While a single dose of LSD may be between 100 and 500 micrograms — an amount roughly equal to one-tenth the mass of a grain of sand — threshold effects can be felt with as little as 25 micrograms.

[Surfer Joe]

In the late 50's and early 60's the American Military was experimenting with LSD - Ken Kesey was one of the test subjects - and psychiatrists started experimenting with it as well.  Cary Grant took LSD under the guidance of his psychiatrist.  So it would not surprize me at all if Gig Young took it as well - but this was before it was illegal.  I doubt Gig Young would have been involved in something like that in the late 70's (or Landy - he would clearly lose his license for that).

An article on Young- I believe it was at TCM' s site- placed his LSD experimentation with Grant's in this same time period- (early sixties).

Alan, thanks for the lead on that book- I found it and I'll report what it says about Landy here.

[Bean Bag]

Man, all this talk of LSD is really putting me on to a real LSD trip (pun).  But seriously...this stuff, at those levels of dosage (and purity) this is really, really serious stuff.

I can completely understand how this would lead to "life changing" moments.  Did Brian change?  I think he did.  I mean deep, brain stem kind of architecture.  I don't know if its just on a conscious level -- or if its deeper than that, more source oriented or both.  But the concepts and the mental language we wrap around the concepts we perceive can be totally rebuilt...from the ground up.

Another thing I was thinking about....(probably another thread) was how much Brian changed....some time in the early 70s.  He went from a shy, intelligent, charming all-american and quick-thinking (aka "bright") fellow......to some kind of low-key, odd-ball nutter as he emerged in the mid-70s.  I would suspect something seriously happened to him, what I don't know, in the early 70s.  I mean like Brain-Damage.  Coke and pot, I guess...not acid.  Acid opened doors and warped his mind...but those other chemicals, combined with serious "removal from reality" behavior-trend led us to....well, "Fairytale music."

"I'm the pied piper..." kind of stuff.     I mean, he was goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooone.