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Author Topic: Paley Sessions, your opinions...  (Read 26199 times)
Mr. Cohen
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« Reply #100 on: March 16, 2010, 10:40:34 PM »

Although it could be inaccurate, an article from around the time of Imagination claimed that Brian's management, with Melinda singled out in particular, thought that while the Paley productions were great demos, that's all they ever where: demos. They felt that Andy's production style wasn't commercial enough to make Brian the Adult Contemporary force they felt he could be. So, as a result, Andy was kind of pushed to the back burner in favor of Joe Thomas. Andy, with his ego, probably didn't take this very well and hence the falling out. It makes more sense than the issue being about Andy's homosexuality or whatever.
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« Reply #101 on: March 17, 2010, 03:32:02 AM »

"Making sense" has never been a key consideration in Beach Boys history...
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« Reply #102 on: March 17, 2010, 04:22:22 AM »


But I have heard Sweet Insanity and I agree that it should have been released.  He does sound like he's having fun.

I could not disagree more. This album shouldn't have been released at the time and it shouldn't be released in the future. The lyrics are truly, truly horrendous and some of the songs are abominations. I can't believe that a healthy, functioning Brian Wilson would have agreed to record these songs and they ought to stay buried.

As for the Paley Sessions, I think that Soul Searchin' and Gettin' in Over my Head are the best tracks by far. The rest of the songs are quite nice but not the masterpieces that some say and they are occasionally let down by more poor lyrics.
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« Reply #103 on: March 17, 2010, 01:09:09 PM »

Although it could be inaccurate, an article from around the time of Imagination claimed that Brian's management, with Melinda singled out in particular, thought that while the Paley productions were great demos, that's all they ever where: demos. They felt that Andy's production style wasn't commercial enough to make Brian the Adult Contemporary force they felt he could be.

Odd, then, that 'Brian's management' used two of said "demos" pretty much wholesale on GIOMH...  Roll Eyes
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Mr. Cohen
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« Reply #104 on: March 17, 2010, 01:43:27 PM »

Right, well, times had changed by the recording GIOMH.  Roll Eyes In fact, about 6 years had passed.  Roll Eyes Notice, for example, the lack of 80s style production and how parts of Brian's band were given more involvement (of course, their presence was still marginalized, but it was an improvement). No reason to think people couldn't change their mind over the course of half a decade.   Roll Eyes Then again, your hearsay is probably more reliable than my hearsay.
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« Reply #105 on: March 17, 2010, 02:22:36 PM »

Paley didn't make sense when Brian had the potential (in management's eyes) to be an AC artist in the late 90s. That didn't pan out. Brian gained indie cred with the first shows and Pet Sounds tour, so an "organic" sounding album made sense. He started working with Andy again. All was well. Then Andy left/was fired again, a year or so passed, and it seemed important to have a "new" album out. With no real body of songs to draw on (except for some so-so Kalinich collabs), you get the grab bag that is GIOMH.
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« Reply #106 on: March 17, 2010, 03:45:57 PM »

One thing to keep in mind with the whole GIOMH debacle: Sahanaja was present during the scrapped 2002 sessions with Paley, Wilson & Foskett. "Desert Drive," to the best of my knowledge, is the only cut in which he is present on GIOMH.

Another reason to love to guy. I've never heard him singled out, but I heard some of the band were ready to walk after they heard GIOMH.
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« Reply #107 on: March 17, 2010, 04:19:13 PM »

One thing to keep in mind with the whole GIOMH debacle: Sahanaja was present during the scrapped 2002 sessions with Paley, Wilson & Foskett. "Desert Drive," to the best of my knowledge, is the only cut in which he is present on GIOMH.

You are correct, sir.
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« Reply #108 on: March 17, 2010, 08:09:34 PM »

How much was  in fact recorded in 2002?
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« Reply #109 on: March 17, 2010, 08:29:17 PM »

Just that one track, I believe. Although a handful of other tracks were recorded even earlier. The bulk of the sessions were in 2003, IIRC.

And I don't think I've ever heard about band members threatening to leave over GIOMH. I've just heard that several weren't too pleased with the results. I know Jeff Foskett had expected there would be more vocal work done (possibly including him). And there wasn't. And someone in the band -- whose name rhymes with blot spinet -- told someone that the record was having difficulty finding a label because it wasn't that good.
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« Reply #110 on: March 17, 2010, 08:31:47 PM »

Nah, I meant was there anything else recorded in 2002 that wasn't used for the album.
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« Reply #111 on: March 17, 2010, 08:52:29 PM »

Although it could be inaccurate, an article from around the time of Imagination claimed that Brian's management, with Melinda singled out in particular, thought that while the Paley productions were great demos, that's all they ever where: demos. They felt that Andy's production style wasn't commercial enough to make Brian the Adult Contemporary force they felt he could be.

Odd, then, that 'Brian's management' used two of said "demos" pretty much wholesale on GIOMH...  Roll Eyes

what two songs are demos?
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« Reply #112 on: March 17, 2010, 08:55:15 PM »

Although it could be inaccurate, an article from around the time of Imagination claimed that Brian's management, with Melinda singled out in particular, thought that while the Paley productions were great demos, that's all they ever where: demos. They felt that Andy's production style wasn't commercial enough to make Brian the Adult Contemporary force they felt he could be.

Odd, then, that 'Brian's management' used two of said "demos" pretty much wholesale on GIOMH...  Roll Eyes

What two songs do you refer to?




Also, why wasn't Brian's band on vocals for more than Desert Drive?
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-Mikie

"in this online beach boy community, I've found that you're either correct or corrected. Which in my mind is all in good fun to show ones knowledge of their favorite band."- punkinhead
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« Reply #113 on: March 17, 2010, 09:56:42 PM »

Saturday Morning in the City, definitely.  Soul Searchin'? Probably.
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« Reply #114 on: March 17, 2010, 10:05:38 PM »

I was thinkin Saturday was one..........Maybe Brian adding his vocals to the demo of Soul Searchin?


I honestly dont mind Andy's voice, I've heard him do a version of Soul Searchin' and an original song of his called Some Lucky Day (from the Dick Tracy soundtrack)
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« Reply #115 on: March 18, 2010, 10:26:12 AM »

Nah, I meant was there anything else recorded in 2002 that wasn't used for the album.

California Feeling? Walking Down the Path of Life, maybe.
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« Reply #116 on: March 18, 2010, 10:39:36 AM »

Nah, I meant was there anything else recorded in 2002 that wasn't used for the album.

California Feeling? Walking Down the Path of Life, maybe.

I think 'Walking down the path of life' was later for that charity single, though 'California Feeling' probably as it came out on that comp of the same year.

SMITC and Soul Searchin are exactly the same Paley sessions backing tracks (and vocals save for the lack of Beach Boys on Soul Searchin and Brians extra lead) as on the GIOMH album with a few extra bits added (horrendous sax solo). It's criminal that they didn't basically release the Paley stuff as it was or indeed later on GIOMH.
For a start the title track which on the Paley sessions had one of Brians best vocals in decades was replaced with a new backing track from the Imagination sessions (urgh) and with a horrid double tracked new vocal which doesn't have anything near the punch of the original. (I think I might have said about that in an earlier post in this thread but the thread is two years old to be fair!)  
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« Reply #117 on: March 18, 2010, 11:31:54 AM »

Path of Life wasn't written until 2005, as far as I know.

I do remember hearing that "You're Still a Mystery" was re-recorded during the sessions, but thankfully wasn't released.
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« Reply #118 on: March 18, 2010, 12:26:12 PM »

Nah, I meant was there anything else recorded in 2002 that wasn't used for the album.

California Feeling? Walking Down the Path of Life, maybe.

I think 'Walking down the path of life' was later for that charity single, though 'California Feeling' probably as it came out on that comp of the same year.

SMITC and Soul Searchin are exactly the same Paley sessions backing tracks (and vocals save for the lack of Beach Boys on Soul Searchin and Brians extra lead) as on the GIOMH album with a few extra bits added (horrendous sax solo). It's criminal that they didn't basically release the Paley stuff as it was or indeed later on GIOMH.
For a start the title track which on the Paley sessions had one of Brians best vocals in decades was replaced with a new backing track from the Imagination sessions (urgh) and with a horrid double tracked new vocal which doesn't have anything near the punch of the original. (I think I might have said about that in an earlier post in this thread but the thread is two years old to be fair!)  


the track to GIOMH is from Imagination era? I had no idea; yeah it sounds like it could come from then....which brings to mind, what's with the lack of Paley songs on Imagination? I know Where has Love been is on there, but that didnt even show up on the Paley sessions....anything else from the Paley sessions recorded during Imagination? I thought I heard How can We Still be Dancing was recorded then.
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"Someone needs to tell Adrian Baker that imitation isn't innovation." -The Real Beach Boy

~post of the century~
"Well, you reached out to me too, David, and I'd be more than happy to fill Bgas's shoes. You don't need him anyway - some of us have the same items in our collections as he does and we're also much better writers. Spoiled brat....."
-Mikie

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« Reply #119 on: March 18, 2010, 01:51:32 PM »

Although it could be inaccurate, an article from around the time of Imagination claimed that Brian's management, with Melinda singled out in particular, thought that while the Paley productions were great demos, that's all they ever where: demos. They felt that Andy's production style wasn't commercial enough to make Brian the Adult Contemporary force they felt he could be.

Odd, then, that 'Brian's management' used two of said "demos" pretty much wholesale on GIOMH...  Roll Eyes

What two songs do you refer to?




Also, why wasn't Brian's band on vocals for more than Desert Drive?

Listen to "Soul Searchin'" on headphones - it's essentially a mono track with a few percussion overdubs: the Paley original was used. Likewise "Saturday Morning In the City". (In passing, the version of the title track dates from just after the Imagination sessions - hence the credits for Joe Thomas).

As for the bvs... my understanding (from a reliable source) is that Brian's 'management' decreed that all the bvs should be his.
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« Reply #120 on: March 18, 2010, 01:55:09 PM »


the track to GIOMH is from Imagination era? I had no idea; yeah it sounds like it could come from then....which brings to mind, what's with the lack of Paley songs on Imagination? I know Where has Love been is on there, but that didnt even show up on the Paley sessions....anything else from the Paley sessions recorded during Imagination? I thought I heard How can We Still be Dancing was recorded then.

If I remember correctly, there was an interview with Joe Thomas in an ESQ, and he talked about "You're Still A Mystery," and "Melinda, Honey," which would have been "My Maryann" with different lyrics.  I think there may have been more, but I can't remember what they were, and my old ESQs are packed away.  For some reason I think he had said that 18 or 20 songs were recorded for Imagination.  I remembered thinking at the time that they should have put more on it, since Imagination seemed short.
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« Reply #121 on: March 18, 2010, 01:55:18 PM »

Just that one track, I believe. Although a handful of other tracks were recorded even earlier. The bulk of the sessions were in 2003, IIRC.

And I don't think I've ever heard about band members threatening to leave over GIOMH. I've just heard that several weren't too pleased with the results. I know Jeff Foskett had expected there would be more vocal work done (possibly including him). And there wasn't. And someone in the band -- whose name rhymes with blot spinet -- told someone that the record was having difficulty finding a label because it wasn't that good.

... which (entirely correct) revelation earned him a royal ass-chewing when it was repeated on several MBs.  Grin
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« Reply #122 on: March 18, 2010, 02:11:09 PM »


the track to GIOMH is from Imagination era? I had no idea; yeah it sounds like it could come from then....which brings to mind, what's with the lack of Paley songs on Imagination? I know Where has Love been is on there, but that didnt even show up on the Paley sessions....anything else from the Paley sessions recorded during Imagination? I thought I heard How can We Still be Dancing was recorded then.

If I remember correctly, there was an interview with Joe Thomas in an ESQ, and he talked about "You're Still A Mystery," and "Melinda, Honey," which would have been "My Maryann" with different lyrics.  I think there may have been more, but I can't remember what they were, and my old ESQs are packed away.  For some reason I think he had said that 18 or 20 songs were recorded for Imagination.  I remembered thinking at the time that they should have put more on it, since Imagination seemed short.

I bet Brian recycled the tune of Marilyn Rovell and changed some words to make Melinda happy....I mean really, he hasn't wrote much that sounds like it'd be written for her...prolly just You've Touched Me and Cry are the only ones that come to mind.
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"Someone needs to tell Adrian Baker that imitation isn't innovation." -The Real Beach Boy

~post of the century~
"Well, you reached out to me too, David, and I'd be more than happy to fill Bgas's shoes. You don't need him anyway - some of us have the same items in our collections as he does and we're also much better writers. Spoiled brat....."
-Mikie

"in this online beach boy community, I've found that you're either correct or corrected. Which in my mind is all in good fun to show ones knowledge of their favorite band."- punkinhead
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« Reply #123 on: March 18, 2010, 02:28:54 PM »


the track to GIOMH is from Imagination era? I had no idea; yeah it sounds like it could come from then....which brings to mind, what's with the lack of Paley songs on Imagination? I know Where has Love been is on there, but that didnt even show up on the Paley sessions....anything else from the Paley sessions recorded during Imagination? I thought I heard How can We Still be Dancing was recorded then.

If I remember correctly, there was an interview with Joe Thomas in an ESQ, and he talked about "You're Still A Mystery," and "Melinda, Honey," which would have been "My Maryann" with different lyrics.  I think there may have been more, but I can't remember what they were, and my old ESQs are packed away.  For some reason I think he had said that 18 or 20 songs were recorded for Imagination.  I remembered thinking at the time that they should have put more on it, since Imagination seemed short.

I bet Brian recycled the tune of Marilyn Rovell and changed some words to make Melinda happy....I mean really, he hasn't wrote much that sounds like it'd be written for her...prolly just You've Touched Me and Cry are the only ones that come to mind.
Brian has said that "Forever She'll Be my Surfer Girl" is about "how I still love my wife."
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« Reply #124 on: March 18, 2010, 03:39:09 PM »

Although it truthfully should be titled, How I Still Love My Four Seasons Records.
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