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Author Topic: Brian's Wild Solo-Artist Ride  (Read 26637 times)
BJL
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« Reply #50 on: August 01, 2008, 05:46:24 PM »

That makes sense, thanks.

Man, it sure makes me sad to think of all that music just dissapearing into the air...

"So, do you still feel productive and creative?"
"It's easier for me to write songs for myself than for others. I write on the piano; I spend six or seven hours a day at work, when I'm into it. I prefer daytime over nighttime. I like studio time the best; that's when I find I can be most creative."

the rest of the interview (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2002/Dec/06/en/en03a.html) seems pretty lucid, although i can't for the life of me figure out what he would have been working on so hard in 2002.  But the first comment sort of implies that he doesn't really like collaborations, and perhaps, in a tragic twist, he retreats into his shell whenever he has to actually record something, while banging away the rest of the time...maybe someone should bug his piano-room :-). 

I read another interview a while back, from before TLOS i think, where brian talked about writing all these songs really quickly over the summer of 2006 (i think), and basically said he was really inspired, writing a new song every few days, and he named a bunch of titles, including some from lucky old sun and (i think...i couldn't find the interview to check) some i hadn't heard of.  Anyway, my point was just that it seems like this album really had it's origins in geniune Brian Wilson inspiration, working alone at his piano writing a whole pile of songs. 
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 06:05:07 PM by BJL » Logged
TdHabib
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« Reply #51 on: August 01, 2008, 07:03:43 PM »

I might be in the minority here in feeling truly let down by Brian's collaboration with Darian Sahanaja and the Wondermints.

The thought that one of the best acts from the '90s psychedelic pop scene getting to work with Brian Wilson was, on the surface, a dream come true. Wayne Coyne of the Flaming Lips expressed admiration, and it altered his band's music in the late '90s significantly. When he met Brian, he was let down, to say the least. Sean O'Hagan of the High Llamas was brought in, but was kicked around verbally for a few weeks before being dropped like a hot potato. Lots of other bands from that period, like Olivia Tremor Control, the Pearlfishers, Heavy Blinkers and Apples in Stereo, would have killed to have been involved with Brian Wilson creatively. How close any of them ever got, I don't know. Maybe they never tried.

The Wondermints GOT the opportunity, but to be honest, the approach has always been so hands-off... to honor Brian's vision... this whole "musical secretary" business... it actually made things worse. Was Darian less talented than Van Dyke Parks, Tony Asher, Tandyn Almer or Andy Paley? I don't think so. But the Wondermints were used as a cover-up for Brian's lacking desire and/or ability to proceed over the ENTIRE volume of work to be done on his most recent projects. The thing about Andy Paley was that there was no denying that he was a full-on collaborator. But in an effort to make it as though Brian now is still the same Brian of 1966... the artistic tour de force we all want him to be... there's all these cloudy notions about how much the Wondermints and Brian's young band members are involved. But it's not cloudy at all. If they are not creatively involved, they are carrying far more weight in polishing material that has no collaborator. And no one is buying that it's all Brian, and they are just his Wrecking Crew. The whole operation is working overtime to polish.

It's a shame, because Brian probably just didn't want to create much at all. And if he really did, the workload wasn't honestly expressed, and that's a bigger shame, because the Wondermints, at the very least, are really cool and talented. I wish it was just a Brian/Darian/Nick collaboration from the start, same as Brian's older collaborators. See who comes up with what, no one man overcompensating for another. But it wasn't like that. Which is why I say that the last real autonymous effort from Brian was his work with Andy Paley.

I totally, 100% agree with your post, brianc. The opportunity with The Wondermints was there and continues to be there. Maybe Brian just doesn't have anything to say.
Don't know how much weight this has, but in 1999 when Brian's solo career was just starting up, Darian and some other Mints made it clear that they did not want to be "leeches" and collaborate/write with Brian (Susan told me this on the Shut Down Board), so this might be why. Frankly, when Scott did step up (he's not a mint, but nonetheless), the results sound stunning, but I'm sure it's been a long time coming...
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« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2008, 09:36:27 PM »

Great post, Jason Global Moderator.

I'd only disagree that the Paley sessions sound much more inspired and autonymous than some give them credit for. Even if it's a full-on collaboration, and Andy was involved in writing.... it sounds like Brian wants to be there, and it sounds fresh.


Agree with you there.
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« Reply #53 on: August 01, 2008, 09:57:26 PM »

That is something that should've been considered when contemplating a solo career. There are many reasons for the success of Beach Boys' albums, but one of the reasons for me would be the use of several lead vocalists on their albums, sometimes four or five different ones. With the exception of the weak material, I've never been able to get past Brian's "solo" voice in carrying an entire album.

Yeah, right on.  When Brian wanted to leave the Beach Boys in 67, 69, 72 and later, he didn't want to leave to pursue a "solo" career - he wanted to leave to produce Redwood, or Spring, or some other act.  He wanted to write, arrange, produce, but stay in the background.  With BW 88 he's singing ALL the parts, lead and backing, and he loses the magical blend of voices that he created in the Beach boys and in other artists.

Expert for the fact that he and th band were very tight  during the Wild Honey, Friends, and Sunflower sessions. I dount he thought about really leaving until 1971 or so. Spring to me is the first real sign interview wise etc. I have some interviews from 1968 where he is very positive about the group.
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MBE
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« Reply #54 on: August 01, 2008, 11:23:22 PM »

What I Really Want For Christmas
Christmasey
Gettin' In Over My Head; (1995 version)
City Blues; (the 2004 is pretty good, the demo has more passion)
Desert Drive; (1995 version)
You're Imagination
Love And Mercy
Melt Away
Baby Let Your Hair Grow Long;
Let It Shine;
Meet Me In My Dreams Tonight;
Rio Grande
In My Moondreams
Midnight's Another Day (demo)
Song Wants To Sleep With You

The following have at least one other Beach Boy present so I'm steching it a little including them.
Night Bloomin Jasmine
Oh Lord
You're Still A Mystery
Stevie
Soul Searchin'; (1995 version also really a Beach Boys song but as it's on a Brian solo album)

Honorable mention would be Smile, most of the Xmas songs, a few Roxy cuts, Lay Down Buden, Slightly American, Chain Reaction
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Wirestone
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« Reply #55 on: August 01, 2008, 11:54:55 PM »

I don't think the band has ever tried to "cover" for Brian. I think they have always tried to realize his vision the best they can, even if he's not willing or able to do so at the time.

Darian, et. al., don't push for more credit because they are, from what I can see, genuinely selfless.
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« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2008, 08:16:02 AM »


Expert for the fact that he and th band were very tight  during the Wild Honey, Friends, and Sunflower sessions. I dount he thought about really leaving until 1971 or so. Spring to me is the first real sign interview wise etc. I have some interviews from 1968 where he is very positive about the group.

There was talk among the Anderle/Vosse/Brian circle about leaving the Beach Boys and doing SMile as a solo project in 67 - nothing came of it of course (well, actually the opposite occured, Smile was scuttled so the Boys could participate in Smiley Smile), but it was a notion that was considered.

1969 appears to be the time of Brian's withdrawal from the group and from producing the group, leaving them to their own devices (and to Carl) to produce their own work and finish whatever Brian started.  He was produced Ron Wilson in 68 and then the Honeys single, 69 other than Break Away and attempts to get him interested in writing with Rick Henn and with Murray! (Breakaway), there wasn't much activity from Brian.  But I don't recall any talk of him wanting out of the group at this point, he was just acting like he didn't want to be in the group.

I think the state of the Beach Boys didn't inspire Brian to want to keep it going at this time - didn't he give an interview where he said they were broke (which upset Carl), their Capitol contract was expiring, live tours in the US were disasters and they couldn't find another label interested in signing them for a while.  If there was a time for the Beach Boys to pack it in, this probably would have seemed like the time.
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« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2008, 08:30:32 AM »

Here's my 20 song comp:
Black Widow or Let's Do it Again
Melt Away
Meet Me in My Dreams Tonight
Rio Grande
Don't Let Her Know (Second SI Version, terrific vocals on this one)
Someone to Love (Second SI Version)
In My Moondreams
This Song Wants to Sleep With You
Gettin In Over My Head
Chain Reaction of Love
Slightly American Music (all original Paley Sessions versions)
Your Imagination
Happy Days
Lay Down Burden (Roxy version, of course)
Love and Mercy (IJWMFTT Version)
Fairy Tale
What Love Can Do
Midnight's Another Day (you know what, either the studio version-we'll see in September, or the demo-I like both!)
Goin Home
Southern California (both from the forthcoming album)

20 good-great songs...I didn't include ones with other BBs. Desert Drive, Oh Lord and Stevie almost all made the cut...as did You've Lost That Loving Feeling, but it's a different era altogether...

Would LOVE to see Mr. Doe's comp if he has a minute...
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 08:31:57 AM by TdHabib » Logged

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« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2008, 03:05:38 PM »


Expert for the fact that he and th band were very tight during the Wild Honey, Friends, and Sunflower sessions. I doubt he thought about really leaving until 1971 or so. Spring to me is the first real sign interview wise etc. I have some interviews from 1968 where he is very positive about the group.

There was talk among the Anderle/Vosse/Brian circle about leaving the Beach Boys and doing SMile as a solo project in 67 - nothing came of it of course (well, actually the opposite occurred, Smile was scuttled so the Boys could participate in Smiley Smile), but it was a notion that was considered.But probably a notion not considered too seriously. Though Brian stated in 1968 the group almost broke up at one point, he also said in a partially unpublished interview he gave to J. Marks the same year that the group was now very tight, and that Smiley Smile really was a great time for them as far as getting along and working together.[/b]

1969 appears to be the time of Brian's withdrawal from the group and from producing the group, leaving them to their own devices (and to Carl) to produce their own work and finish whatever Brian started.  He was produced Ron Wilson in 68 and then the Honeys single, 69 other than Break Away and attempts to get him interested in writing with Rick Henn and with Murray! (Breakaway), there wasn't much activity from Brian.  But I don't recall any talk of him wanting out of the group at this point, he was just acting like he didn't want to be in the group. Actually if you look at the sessionography at AGD's site, Brian was there for most of the 1969-70 sessions. He said in 1976 that it wasn't until 1971 that he felt they could really work without him. The only period before 1972 where he seems to be seriously uninterested was during the later half of 1968. Even then when he did work he seemed committed as volume 20 of SOT demonstraits. Brian himself and Steve Desper both told me Brian was there frequently and it was a good time for group interaction as a whole. One of the biggest surprises of Desper's book was that Brian was there for most of Surf's Up as well as Sunflower

I think the state of the Beach Boys didn't inspire Brian to want to keep it going at this time - didn't he give an interview where he said they were broke (which upset Carl), their Capitol contract was expiring, live tours in the US were disasters and they couldn't find another label interested in signing them for a while.  If there was a time for the Beach Boys to pack it in, this probably would have seemed like the time. I think he was trying to tell the truth, but the very fact that he would give a press conference tells me his (in this case somewhat misguided) commitment to the band. I also think that 1969-70 was perhaps the best time for the group as interacting creative artists. They were too on fire musically to pack it in. 1973-maybe, 1977-sure, 1983 or 1997 yes, but the sixties were the Beach Boys time.[/glow]

Borrowed from AGD's page here is a list of songs Brian worked on in 1969. He may not have been at every session but he contributed to all of these. The only one I am not sure of is Loop De Loop. Jardine says Brian wasn't there, Desper says he probably did contribute something. There could be more he did musically, but this will give you a good idea. I only mark what he did the first time a song appears. This is Brian acting as one essential member of a real group, not him being a sole leader. Still his position as leader was still intact as everything else was dropped when he was there.
January  9 - session: Forever/San Miguel (vocals were done for both songs not sure which session. Perhaps played on both too)
13 - session: San Miguel [Sunset]


22 - session: San Miguel [Valentine - 2 sessions]

24 - session: San Miguel [Sunset]

27 - session: San Miguel [Sunset]

29 - session: San Miguel [Capitol]

 

21 - session: Deidrie (some lead vocals-co-wrote a couple of lyrics)

24 - session: What Can The Matter Be ?/Celebrate The News [Sunset] (vocals on at least the later again not sure what session)
25 - session: Celebrate The News [Sunset]

  3 - session: Celebrate The News [Sunset]
  5 - session: Loop De Loop [Western] (co-wrote-perhaps harmony vocals, and instruments?)
  6 - session: Loop De Loop [Western]
  8 - session: Loop De Loop
11 - session: Loop De Loop [Sunset]
12 - session: Forever [Gold Star]
14 - session: Forever [Gold Star]
17 - session: Forever [Gold Star]
19 - session: All I Wanna Do [Gold Star] (Co-wrote-sang lead lines, helped produce, played on.)
21 - session: Deidrie [Gold Star]
31 - single session: Break Away [ID Sound] (Co-wrote-sang lead lines, produced, played on.)
  April 
  2 - single session: Break Away

10 - single session: Break Away vocals [ID Sound]

  August   
  8 - single session: Cotton Fields (45 version) (sang maybe played on)
15 - single session: Cotton Fields (45 version) [Sunset]

29 - session: Soulful Old Man Sunshine [Sunset] (Co-wrote-sang , helped produce, played on.)

 
  October   6 - Add Some Music session: Slip On Through (Sang, played on)
13 - Add Some Music session: Walkin' (wrote-sang lead lines, helped produce, played on.)

20 - Add Some Music session: Games Two Can Play (wrote-sang lead, helped produce played on.)

28 - Add Some Music session: Add Some Music To Your Day (Co-wrote-sang lead lines, produced, played on.)

  November
  4 - Add Some Music session: When Girls Get Together (Co-wrote-sang lead lines, helped produce, played on.)

  6 - Add Some Music session: Soulful Old Man Sunshine/Our Sweet Love [Sunset] (Co-wrote-sang lead lines, helped produce, played on.)

  9 - Add Some Music session: Soulful Old Man Sunshine vocals
11 - Add Some Music session: Raspberries, Strawberries (= At My Window) (sang lead lines?, helped produce, played on.)

13 - Add Some Music session: This Whole World (wrote-sang, produced, played on.)

18 - Add Some Music session: Tears In The Morning (sang on maybe played)
?? - Add Some Music session: Where is She ? (wrote-sang lead, produced, played on.)

December 
24 - Add Some Music session: Susie Cincinnati (-sang , helped produce, played harmonica on.)

?? - Add Some Music session: Carnival (= Over The Waves) (-sang , produced, played on.)

?? - Add Some Music session: Add Some Music To Your Day

That's a lot of work, and some of his best ever.


« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 03:14:24 PM by MBE » Logged
matt-zeus
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« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2008, 03:17:15 PM »

IMO there's loads of great stuff that Brian has written in his solo career which adds to the legacy of what came before, it's just that his solo career (like the BBs) has been one of near misses and 'What could have beens...' as well as being dogged by production work which has undone some of the better elements.
Add to this the fact that Brian wrecked his voice, it was sort of hidden within the BBs as the others could sing but whole albums on his own can be odd sounding (imagine what its like for a non-fan!), so in that aspect solo albums from Brian can be unnappealing.
However we have to look at the songs, essentially the songs are what gave Brian his reputation and songwriting-wise I still think he has it.
With regards to his solo career, I think the unreleased stuff has to be included in this context because the seeming 10 year gap between BW88 and Imagination could have just as easily had 2 albums in between that.
Just looking at these;

Usher Sessions
BW88 (and its B-sides and outtakes)
Sweet Insanity (and outtakes)

I could easily find 20 songs in this lot that I liked, I don't care if some of it was 'homework' songs or whatever, I like the songs!

Don Was/Paley Sessions
Imagination

Again, lots of good stuff here.

GIOMH
Xmas LP
TLOS

I think TLOS will be his best album, and at least it will be released!
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« Reply #60 on: August 02, 2008, 04:08:19 PM »

BW has had several major and minor writing periods in his solo career. These are the ones I've been able to figure out.

83-84-ish

Major: A rejuvenated Brian writes tons of songs, including L&M and DLHKSAA. Reports say there were nearly 200 composed here; this is the pile that Brian returns to most often for solo material.

86-87-ish

Minor: Brian works on a new batch of songs with Gary Usher.

89-91

Minor: Brian comes up with some new songs for Sweet Insanity.

93-95

Major: Brian and Andy Paley work on several dozen songs

96

Minor: Brian and Tony Asher collaborate on a half-dozen new tunes; only two have been released.

97-99

Minor: Brian and Joe Thomas collaborate on songs for Imagination and its follow-up.

02-04

Minor: Brian and Steve Kalinich collaborate again. A half-dozen of their songs are demo-ed for GIOMH; two are used.

04-05

Minor:

Brian reports that he's written several new songs since the completion of Smile; Oxygen to the Brain is a title mentioned.

06-07:

Major: Brian works over the summer with Scott Bennett on some 30 or so new songs.

Basically, every 10 years or so Brian gets the itch to create (or co-create, or assist someone else in creating, depending on your viewpoint) a bunch of new songs. But he's certainly active in other times.

The problem is, without a record label demanding a constant stream of new material, Brian can hang onto to songs for decades, working on them in different versions until one or another trickles out. So any given BW solo album is a poor indicator of the state of his songwriting.

It's easy to say, looking at the GIOMH tracklist, that Brian wasn't working on new songs. But he probably could have released an album predominately of songs he had recently written with Kalinich. Would anyone want to hear such an album? That's another question entirely.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 04:13:22 PM by claymcc » Logged
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« Reply #61 on: August 02, 2008, 04:56:29 PM »

....But he probably could have released an album predominately of songs he had recently written with Kalinich. Would anyone want to hear such an album? That's another question entirely.

That is another question entirely, but one I keep coming back to. And matt-zeus touched on it in his excellent post, when he discussed Brian's voice having to carry an album, saying, "Imagine what it's like for a non-fan."

Those Brian solo "comp lists" earlier in the thread, yeah, I have one, too. I burned it onto a CD for my car. It's an enjoyable listen actually. But it's a CD only a mother could love. The average music fan wouldn't, actually they didn't. I don't wanna get into the reasons why; maybe later. It's back to those percentages again; we are in that 1%. I know what you're thinking; if only people would hear those songs. I don't think it would've made a difference.

The solo Brian Wilson is a cult artist. It's hard to believe, considering what a giant he was. While Dylan, McCartney, Elton John, and Stevie Wonder all experienced dwindling popularity during their solo careers, they always remained "popular". They always remained "kind of themselves", not transforming into someone, well, not like themself, not like their prior self. 
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« Reply #62 on: August 02, 2008, 05:08:02 PM »

The difference, for what it's worth, is that Dylan, McCartney, Elton and Stevie all had solo successes at the height of their abilities (and while they were all in their 20s). Brian didn't release a solo album until he was well into his 40s and had been through the psychic and physical wringer.

Yep, he's an acquired taste. But so are most interesting musicians. And as for the voice -- I love Tom Waits and latter-day Dylan. So Brian's slightly ruined voice has never been a problem for me -- it's been an attraction.

(I should note -- because it explains a lot about my viewpoints -- that I became a fan of the Beach Boys through Brian Wilson. The IJWMFTT soundstrack was one of the first BW or BB CDs I purchased. I love solo Brian -- in all of his Shortnin' Bread, Clang Ding Dangin', A-wum-bop-did-it glory.)
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #63 on: August 02, 2008, 05:20:28 PM »

(I should note -- because it explains a lot about my viewpoints -- that I became a fan of the Beach Boys through Brian Wilson. The IJWMFTT soundstrack was one of the first BW or BB CDs I purchased. I love solo Brian -- in all of his Shortnin' Bread, Clang Ding Dangin', A-wum-bop-did-it glory.)

I think that's great. And I want to read opinions from solo Brian fans like you. I'm not being sarcastic when I say that I don't know many people who care for Brian's solo stuff. So I like to read what others enjoy about it.
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« Reply #64 on: August 02, 2008, 05:58:28 PM »

^ I really like that kind of attitude. This place (anyplace, really) is a lot of fun when people are interested in the why of other people's opinions, instead of just leaping into the far easier "dumbass!" kind of comments. And yes, I'm as guilty as anyone. But that doesn't mean we can't aim high.
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« Reply #65 on: August 02, 2008, 06:36:28 PM »

Well, I've come a long ways myself on this. I can make as much fun of Mike Love as anyone, but it's silly to pretend he -- or any of the other Beach Boys (and this includes Marks, Blondie and Ricky) -- didn't bring something to the table.

For, as thwarted as Brian fans sometimes feel, think of the music we were deprived of from Dennis (wholly destroyed by his demons) and Carl (seldom following through on the transcendence of Long Promised Road and Feel Flows).
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« Reply #66 on: August 03, 2008, 01:30:08 AM »

I too became a Beach Boys fan through Brian Wilson. I myself am bi-polar, and went through a very rough spell.  My therapist asked me if I ever heard of Brian Wilson. I said no. They recommended me listening to Pet Sounds. At the time I thought  of the Beach Boys as nothing but oldies sh*t artists. Yet I checked out a copy of Wouldn't it be Nice from the library, and that got me hooked. Yeah, even then I knew it was fake, but I felt something . So, I bought his first solo album for 99 cents (tape) from the bargain bin at Blockbuster Music.  Holy sh*t, I loved it, esp. Rio Grande and Let it Shine. After that, I bought IJWMFTT, specifically for Caroline No, and I loved it, esp. the Still I Dream of it demo. Now, I finally had the courage to buy my first Beach Boys album. Pet Sounds, right?


Nope.

Smiley Smile. Pet Sounds was the *second* BB album I ever bought. After that, a truly  nice guy by the name of Fred Scerbo sent me tape copies of t  BB 70s catalogue, plus Sweet Insanity. I'm not ashamed to admit it, but I loved it. "Someone to Love" to me had killer vocals. You know what I else I love? The Christmas album, esp. Brian's two originals.

Point is, I may not be the biggest Melinda fan in the world. I have my "misgivings" about the goings-on. But....I must admit I dig his solo music, and I'm not afraid to admit it. I hope he keeps going.
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« Reply #67 on: August 03, 2008, 03:30:05 AM »

1969 appears to be the time of Brian's withdrawal from the group and from producing the group, leaving them to their own devices (and to Carl) to produce their own work and finish whatever Brian started.  He was produced Ron Wilson in 68 and then the Honeys single, 69 other than Break Away and attempts to get him interested in writing with Rick Henn and with Murray! (Breakaway), there wasn't much activity from Brian.  But I don't recall any talk of him wanting out of the group at this point, he was just acting like he didn't want to be in the group.

Peter Reum once posted something about Brian being hospitalized in '69 (or was it '68? '70 even?) under rather dramatic circumstances. If I remember correctly, he wrote something to the effect of Brian staring at the walls for days on end and becoming increasingly phlegmatic in general after being medicated in a certain way (I don't remember the exact name of the drug). If it really happened this way, I reckon Brian not working too much with the Boys around that time probably had a lot more to do with said episode than with him not being interested.
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« Reply #68 on: August 03, 2008, 05:56:48 AM »

1969 appears to be the time of Brian's withdrawal from the group and from producing the group, leaving them to their own devices (and to Carl) to produce their own work and finish whatever Brian started.  He was produced Ron Wilson in 68 and then the Honeys single, 69 other than Break Away and attempts to get him interested in writing with Rick Henn and with Murray! (Breakaway), there wasn't much activity from Brian.  But I don't recall any talk of him wanting out of the group at this point, he was just acting like he didn't want to be in the group.

Peter Reum once posted something about Brian being hospitalized in '69 (or was it '68? '70 even?) under rather dramatic circumstances. If I remember correctly, he wrote something to the effect of Brian staring at the walls for days on end and becoming increasingly phlegmatic in general after being medicated in a certain way (I don't remember the exact name of the drug). If it really happened this way, I reckon Brian not working too much with the Boys around that time probably had a lot more to do with said episode than with him not being interested.

Summer 1968, for a short while. It's possible it was at his own request.
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« Reply #69 on: August 03, 2008, 11:46:15 AM »

That is another question entirely, but one I keep coming back to. And matt-zeus touched on it in his excellent post, when he discussed Brian's voice having to carry an album, saying, "Imagine what it's like for a non-fan."

My first introduction to the Beach Boys was through the hits and the classic albums and when I bought the newly-released 15 BIG ONES I was shocked at how bad Brian's vocals were. LOVE YOU was even more disturbing in this regard. I soon learned the reason why, but wrote Brian off as a has-been nonetheless. The slight improvement in his voice on MIU boded well, but I soon left as a fan once Dennis died and moved on to other things. When BW88 was released (admittedly, I hadn't heard a single track off BEACH BOYS '85), I was expecting KEEPING THE SUMMER ALIVE quality songs sung by the guy who did "Love Is A Woman"! I was completely won over by the quality material and production and the fact that Brian's vocals sounded great if obviously more mature. Regardless of the quality of his subsequent leads, which have obviously varied both on and off record, he's never sounded as bad to me as he did back in '77, so it's not that much of an issue for me.

He's a bit like Dylan who is certainly not the same person he was in his mid-60s heyday. Dylan's voice is completely trashed, but he knows how to make it work for the material he comes up with. The Dylan of the last ten years is completely removed from the icon Dylan, but he's still dynamic in a different way. I think Brian's the same way. I don't want him to sound or write like he did in the mid-60s; I want him to do something unique for his mid-60s. The work he's been doing over the past few years is comparable to what Dylan has done in my mind.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 11:47:49 AM by Roger Ryan » Logged
Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #70 on: August 03, 2008, 03:41:39 PM »

He's a bit like Dylan who is certainly not the same person he was in his mid-60s heyday. Dylan's voice is completely trashed, but he knows how to make it work for the material he comes up with. The Dylan of the last ten years is completely removed from the icon Dylan, but he's still dynamic in a different way. I think Brian's the same way. I don't want him to sound or write like he did in the mid-60s; I want him to do something unique for his mid-60s. The work he's been doing over the past few years is comparable to what Dylan has done in my mind.

I don't know, Roger. You're right, Bob Dylan does know how to make his voice work for the new material he comes up with. But I don't think Brian does. Going back to Bean Bag's initial post, Brian's voice doesn't sound quite right with the backing tracks. Roger, while you might not want Brian to sound like he did in the mid-60's, much of his solo material was INTENDED to sound like the mid-60's Brian. He has been trying to recapture the old sound, instead of progressing to a new, groundbreaking one.   
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« Reply #71 on: August 04, 2008, 07:10:59 AM »

He's a bit like Dylan who is certainly not the same person he was in his mid-60s heyday. Dylan's voice is completely trashed, but he knows how to make it work for the material he comes up with. The Dylan of the last ten years is completely removed from the icon Dylan, but he's still dynamic in a different way. I think Brian's the same way. I don't want him to sound or write like he did in the mid-60s; I want him to do something unique for his mid-60s. The work he's been doing over the past few years is comparable to what Dylan has done in my mind.

I don't know, Roger. You're right, Bob Dylan does know how to make his voice work for the new material he comes up with. But I don't think Brian does. Going back to Bean Bag's initial post, Brian's voice doesn't sound quite right with the backing tracks. Roger, while you might not want Brian to sound like he did in the mid-60's, much of his solo material was INTENDED to sound like the mid-60's Brian. He has been trying to recapture the old sound, instead of progressing to a new, groundbreaking one.   

I don't think everything Brian comes up with is a throw-back to his mid-60s work or an attempt to emulate that period. BWPS obviously was, but most of GIOMH, the new Christmas songs, "Walking Down The Path of Life", "Live Let Live" sound nothing like the songs he wrote in the 60s. Obviously, something like "Forever You'll Be My Surfer Girl" is meant to be nostalgic, but "Midnight's Another Day" sounds quite a bit different from what's come before. I don't expect Brian to still be breaking new ground at all. Dylan is still reworking his beloved old-timey blues and folk tunes like he did in the early 60s, but he's found a way to breath new life into them. I think Brian has been doing something similar and it's material that doesn't demand his 24-year-old self sing the leads.
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« Reply #72 on: August 04, 2008, 07:58:49 AM »

I don't think everything Brian comes up with is a throw-back to his mid-60s work or an attempt to emulate that period. BWPS obviously was, but most of GIOMH, the new Christmas songs, "Walking Down The Path of Life", "Live Let Live" sound nothing like the songs he wrote in the 60s. Obviously, something like "Forever You'll Be My Surfer Girl" is meant to be nostalgic, but "Midnight's Another Day" sounds quite a bit different from what's come before.

I respectfully disagree. Most of Brian's solo albums have been re-visiting his past, both directly and indirectly.

IJWMFTT, Live At The Roxy, Pet Sounds Live, and BWPS are re-recordings of 30-40 year old Beach Boys' songs. Imagination has three or four re-writes/re-recordings. And the production of the WIRWFC is filled with old Beach Boys' songs and BW tricks. Which leaves GIOMH. To me, "How Could We Still Be Dancin", "Soul Searchin", "You've Touched Me", "Desert Drive", "Rainbow Eyes", and "Don't Let Her Know She's An Angel" break no new ground. And I don't think Brian's voice makes the material work.

TLOS does show some promise (despite some of the songs not being new) , but I'm gonna hold off on commenting until I hear the finished product.

 




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« Reply #73 on: August 04, 2008, 09:09:07 AM »

Of course you're right, Sheriff, that Brian has spent way too much time revisiting past triumphs. I tend not to take the live albums into consideration, but the two remakes on IMAGINATION were completely uncalled for and insulting. I was also not happy to have "Little St. Nick" and "The Man With All The Toys" remade again on WIRWFC. I guess I was focusing on the more contemporary material that seems to suite a mature Brian fairly well (see my list for a twenty track retrospective from the last twenty years).

I guess it's a glass half-empty/half-full situation where I tend to ignore the retreads.
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« Reply #74 on: August 04, 2008, 09:48:09 AM »

SJS: The only song on TLOS that's "not new" is the melody for "California Role," which I've heard comes from an unbooted 80s Brian comp. (This was also apparently news to Scott Bennett, who co-wrote the darn thing.)

Every other BW comp on there is new -- to my knowledge. The "Clangin'" riff and the Can't Wait too Long link track aren't, but neither are they presented as complete songs. They are simply bits incorporated into the whole.

Mornin' Beat -- Some cite the late 60s tune "Walkin'" as an antecedent, and the underlying riffs are similar, but the song sounds quite different.
Good Kind of Love -- No obvious earlier source.
Forever She'll Be My Surfer Girl -- Ditto. Well, except for the subject matter.
Live Let Live -- Main chorus line clearly inspired by "Sail On Sailor."
Mexican Girl -- No obvious source (and the low point of the album, to many)
Oxygen to the Brain -- No obvious re-use here, although it's similar in spirit to the 80s fitness songs.
Midnight's Another Day -- No obvious earlier source.
Goin' Home -- This is complicated. The Paley sessions "Goin' Home" is a different song, although it has the same key chorus line: "I'm Goin' Home." The "rockin' and a 'rollin" riff from Rock and Roll music and BW's version of Proud Mary makes a return too. And is that the Shortnin' Bread riff? Why, I think it might be. Still, basically a new song.
Southern California -- Scott Bennett sings the demo, and it's been stated this is a solo comp by him. The album version has a bridge, however, so that may be Brian's addition.
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