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Author Topic: Brian's Wild Solo-Artist Ride  (Read 26632 times)
Wirestone
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« Reply #100 on: August 05, 2008, 05:30:02 PM »

Roger, that's almost the last word on the subject, it seems to me.

People get so caught up in saying "Imagination" -- "Smile" -- "GIOMH -- TLOS -- which is the real Brian? Well, they're all the real Brian, more or less. They just show off different aspects of his character -- some pleasing, some not-so.
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the captain
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« Reply #101 on: August 05, 2008, 05:37:56 PM »

Well, they're all the real Brian, more or less. They just show off different aspects of his character
I wouldn't quite say it like that, but close. I'd say they are different pieces of work. Work is work. He's not putting out one album over and over. Like anyone, he has different ideas over time. Like anyone, he has different outside influences over time. "The real Brian" (or the real anyone) is the end result of all that, internal and external.
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Bean Bag
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« Reply #102 on: August 06, 2008, 08:39:17 AM »

I axed...

No you didn't - you asked. "Axed" is something you do with a sharp cutting edge mounted on a handle. It's right up there with the incorrect use of "disrespected" (actually, there is no correct use as there is no such word) in the sloppy English stakes.

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Bean Bag
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« Reply #103 on: August 06, 2008, 09:09:27 AM »

The "real" Brian allows others to give him a push in a certain musical direction when he needs it, to go on the road or into the studio to occupy his time. He's happy to allow collaborators to handle arrangements and suggest sequencing. He even looks to handlers to clear some of his answers to the press. He likes the routine of eating breakfast at the same restaurant each day, taking a walk in the park, spending some time at his piano, writing some pop songs and playing around with them in a studio. Sometimes he's enthusiastic about all of these things, sometimes not so much. He'll check himself into the hospital if he feels he's sinking too deep.

This is who he is...and pretty much who he's been for the last 30 years. You like SWEET INSANITY? Great, but I don't see where those tracks are any closer to a "real" Brian Wilson than anything else he's actually released over the past twenty years. You like IMAGINATION? I like some of it too, but don't care much for the production. I could blame Joe Thomas for that (as co-producer, he's the logical culprit), but, ultimately, Brian put his name on it, so it's his product, like it or not. The "real" Brian Wilson has released some spectacular work and he's released some garbage. And even in his heyday he screwed up. It wasn't Landy or Melinda, but someone had to tell him that his first mix of PET SOUNDS sounded bad and he needed to remix it. Would it have been better if the "real" Brian was allowed to release that first mix of his masterpiece? And we all know what the "real" Brian thought of the SMiLE sessions circa May, 1967. SMILEY SMILE was "real" alright, real disappointing.

It's absurd to try and guess which albums, tracks or vocals the "real" Brian is responsible for. The circumstances, his emotions and mental health, others' opinions and reactions all factor into it. When compared to a Roky Erickson or a Arthur Lee or even a John Fogerty, Brian has contributed a substantial body of work over the last twenty years; I'm happy to accept all of it as his "reality".

Not me Roger.  I get what you're saying...but I don't accept all of this as "his reality."  You mentioned Smiley Smile.   Perfect example of what I'm saying.  That would have never EVER been released by the Brian Wilson handlers of the last thirty years.  Not ever.  You know it, I know it.  And I do like Sweet Insanity, thank you...and guess what...it wasn't released!

Let's go bax to my original post:  We actually get LESS "real Brian" now that he has his solo career.  Isn't that an ironic sandwich?

I also said I was irritated by a presentation that seemed at odds with itself.  Imagination (which I do love, thank you bery much) yes...it was "tampered Brian" ala production etc.  But my point there was, that it sounded good.  I just appreciated the artistic congruence of subject matter, production, and finish.  I never said that it was "real Brian" cuz, frankly I don't know!  I do suspect it is though...since the feelings he's trying to communicate there -- are communicated and conveyed to us as such.  Successful communication.  Maybe removing Brian's "brain damaged" inconsistencies got to what the poor man really wanted to do -- aka "real Brian."

I do very much suspect your summation of Brian today is right though.  He's fine to let other people do the heavy lifting, which is fine.  My only complaint would be...it's in the details, it's the rolled up sleeves, paint under your finger nails -- where the real  s h i t  happens.

Often, that's where "Art" be.
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #104 on: August 06, 2008, 09:16:49 AM »

I do very much suspect your summation of Brian today is right though.  He's fine to let other people do the heavy lifting, which is fine.  My only complaint would be...it's in the details, it's the rolled up sleeves, paint under your finger nails -- where the real  s h i t  happens.

Often, that's where "Art" be.

Oooh, I like that!
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brianc
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« Reply #105 on: August 06, 2008, 09:22:52 AM »

"Okay... so you're saying that our whole universe could be, like, one tiny atom in the fingernail of some other giant being?"
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Wirestone
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« Reply #106 on: August 06, 2008, 09:40:08 AM »

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That would have never EVER been released by the Brian Wilson handlers of the last thirty years.  Not ever.  You know it, I know it.

Yet we have "Male Ego." We have "Saturday Morning in the City." We have "Happy Days." We have "Rio Grande." We have "Fantasy is Reality / Bells of Madness." Hell, we even have "Smile."

I don't think anyone is preventing Brian from releasing crazy music if he wants to create it. Yes, they might look askance at him recording it while high and playing only acoustic guitar, bongos and organ. But I don't think anyone, not Brian, not the BBs -- ever though the circumstances behind the creation of Smiley Smile were ideal.
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Bean Bag
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« Reply #107 on: August 06, 2008, 09:53:40 AM »

"Okay... so you're saying that our whole universe could be, like, one tiny atom in the fingernail of some other giant being?"

That could very well be, man.  But, for me, it's more like the old "tree falling in the woods" thing.  If no one's around -- and it falls  -- it's not whether it made a sound or not that matters.  You already imagined it fell.  It's my story and it's your imagination and the story is done.

So in terms of art and music, nothing is more real than the idea, and nothing is closer to the idea than your own hand.
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Bean Bag
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« Reply #108 on: August 06, 2008, 10:01:13 AM »

I don't think anyone is preventing Brian from releasing crazy music if he wants to create it.

We are all guilty of it -- with the best of intentions too.  "Was the power drill really needed in "great shape?"  Huh Brian?  What about those ridiculous animal noises in Barnyard?  Was all that necessary Brian?"

I ask that, excuse me, I axe that everytime I listen to it.
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Roger Ryan
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« Reply #109 on: August 06, 2008, 08:55:12 PM »

I don't think anyone is preventing Brian from releasing crazy music if he wants to create it.

We are all guilty of it -- with the best of intentions too.  "Was the power drill really needed in "great shape?"  Huh Brian?  What about those ridiculous animal noises in Barnyard?  Was all that necessary Brian?"

I ask that, excuse me, I axe that everytime I listen to it.

 Okay, the irony here is that in 2003 Brian himself thought the power drill/contruction noises were ridiculous and didn't want them included in a SMiLE performance according to Darian. Knowing how important they were to the "authenticity" of resurrecting SMiLE, both Darian and Van Dyke Parks convinced him to keep the sound effects. In this instance, others were responsible for retaining one of Brian's crazy ideas (albeit one from 1966).

Word is that Brian insisted on cutting "Happy Days" several times over until he was pleased with it. He also requested a recitation from "Dante's Inferno" be included on the track. That's pretty out there for an album aiming at the middle of adult-contemporary normal, but Brian got his way (and, yes, I wish there was a bit more of that sort of thing and less of the safe "Keep An Eye On Summer" stuff). It's quite possible that for those few days he worked on that song, he was committed to a particular vision and the rest of the time he was content to allow Joe Thomas to do his thing so Brian could get home and eat his dinner at a reasonable hour.

The point I was trying to make earlier is that we don't know that Brian would do anything differently if left to create his art on his own. Maybe he would've cut something like "Happy Days" and been done with it (unreleased oddity with no IMAGINATION album to support it) or, later, recorded his one Christmas song he came up with and posted it on his website with no full Christmas album following a few years later. If no one pushed him or suggested to him to do more, that's what we might have gotten (or less). But we don't know. I feel pretty certain, however, that there haven't been reams of eccentric masterpieces that the powers that be have prevented Brian from making.
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Bean Bag
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« Reply #110 on: August 07, 2008, 07:30:17 AM »

...in 2003 Brian himself thought the power drill/contruction noises were ridiculous and didn't want them included in a SMiLE performance according to Darian. Knowing how important they were to the "authenticity" of resurrecting SMiLE, both Darian and Van Dyke Parks convinced him to keep the sound effects...

Really?!!  I knew there was something a little too much on BWPS.  A little too much of a love-fest going on.  Something missing too.  But it wasn't really "completed" in 2004, it was just "presented" for us. 

I'll take it -- don't misunderstand, but..when your gut knows something...  Like they alway say..."if something's too good to be true..."


Quote
I feel pretty certain, however, that there haven't been reams of eccentric masterpieces that the powers that be have prevented Brian from making.

Yeah, you're probably right.  If anything the 'powers that be' have pushed him to do more, not less.  But I think in doing some of this, they may have tampered with a lot of the purity of it.  Sometimes they've increased the aesthetic appeal, others times they've inflicted a totally different direction, even ruined its artistic purity and purpose.
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #111 on: August 07, 2008, 07:58:46 AM »

I'm sorry, but I'm missing the point/objections to the power drill. On the original "Workshop", there were various tools used, including hammers, saws, and power drills. Right? Am I hearing that right? So, what's wrong with bringing a power drill out in the live performance? It was trying to duplicate the recording, it was fun, it gave Brian something to "play". What am I missing here?
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The Heartical Don
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« Reply #112 on: August 07, 2008, 08:00:16 AM »

I think Brian, from '61 to '67, worked on an intuïtive compass (like all true artists). Feelings guided his enormous grasp of technicalities. And that is why he was able to do what he did. He wasn't 'self-conscious' in the psychological sense of the world, not 'depersonalized' as in: 'I am looking at myself and telling myself now how to proceed'. His art flowered all by itself, it seemed.
After the Landy years things were quite different. Necessarily so. He experienced many breakdowns, exacerbated by the use of street drugs. He then got 'therapy', and very likely the wrong medication (and too high doses of that). Which led to a period in which he almost was indoctrinated with psycho-babble.
What I don't like at all about 'Sweet Insanity' is its attempt to depict Brian as a politically correct likable patient. After that one, Brian partially found back his own powers. By 'partially', I mean: he did not work by pure gut instinct anymore, like he did so impressively with Pet Sounds, dealing out instructions for everyone and asking the Wrecking Crew to play sounds that, going by the box set, already were lodged firmly in his head.
He often had to be guided by someone, e.g. Joe Thomas. And, I conjecture, he simply had to be self-conscious to create. To say to himself continuously: 'now I'm gonna do this or that, I must call him or her, will they like what I am planning?' and so on and so forth.
This would explain that he took longer to realize a project; and also many an odd moment - e.g. when he told George Martin in a TV documentary that Martin, by a couple of manipulations of the mixing desk, created a 'Pet Sounds' far finer than he (Brian) himself had made. Which is a truly embarrassing moment, a typical 'later Brian' moment where he tries to be sooo polite, sooo self-effacing, sooo modest to other parties.
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Amy B.
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« Reply #113 on: August 07, 2008, 08:48:09 AM »

...in 2003 Brian himself thought the power drill/contruction noises were ridiculous and didn't want them included in a SMiLE performance according to Darian. Knowing how important they were to the "authenticity" of resurrecting SMiLE, both Darian and Van Dyke Parks convinced him to keep the sound effects...

Really?!!  I knew there was something a little too much on BWPS.  A little too much of a love-fest going on.  Something missing too.  But it wasn't really "completed" in 2004, it was just "presented" for us. 

I'll take it -- don't misunderstand, but..when your gut knows something...  Like they alway say..."if something's too good to be true..."


Quote
I feel pretty certain, however, that there haven't been reams of eccentric masterpieces that the powers that be have prevented Brian from making.

Yeah, you're probably right.  If anything the 'powers that be' have pushed him to do more, not less.  But I think in doing some of this, they may have tampered with a lot of the purity of it.  Sometimes they've increased the aesthetic appeal, others times they've inflicted a totally different direction, even ruined its artistic purity and purpose.


I think in this case it was modern-day Brian who was tampering with the purity of the creation of 1966 Brian by being self-conscious about it.  And I think Darian and VDP knew that it was just Brian being self-conscious. Since the whole point of BWPS was to preserve it and present it as a piece of Brian's legacy, I agree with Darian and VDP's efforts to keep the drill stuff in there. And judging by Brian's face on the DVD when the drills come out, I think he was pleased that this part has been left in there.
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Amy B.
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« Reply #114 on: August 07, 2008, 08:50:55 AM »


This would explain that he took longer to realize a project; and also many an odd moment - e.g. when he told George Martin in a TV documentary that Martin, by a couple of manipulations of the mixing desk, created a 'Pet Sounds' far finer than he (Brian) himself had made. Which is a truly embarrassing moment, a typical 'later Brian' moment where he tries to be sooo polite, sooo self-effacing, sooo modest to other parties.

I didn't take it that way. I thought it was very typical of Brian, "old Brian" or "modern Brian." It reminded me of that moment on the Pet Sounds Sessions box where one of the musicians messes up a keyboard part on I'm Waiting for the Day and Brian marvels at the inventiveness of it. "How did you play that?"  I think with George Martin, it was the same thing-- Brian giving credit to someone for whom he has respect.
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« Reply #115 on: August 07, 2008, 08:56:51 AM »

I'm sorry, but I'm missing the point/objections to the power drill. On the original "Workshop", there were various tools used, including hammers, saws, and power drills. Right? Am I hearing that right? So, what's wrong with bringing a power drill out in the live performance? It was trying to duplicate the recording, it was fun, it gave Brian something to "play". What am I missing here?

Excellent question.  Yes, you heard right!  Here's the problem...Have you ever thrown a party, and it was awesome and you think "man, I gots to do this again!"  So the next day or weekend you try to throw the same party.  But something's not right.

Maybe it was a recipe, or even a "romantic setting" that worked one time...but as you tried to recreate the scene, it seemed awkward -- lacking -- off.

It's a very real phenomenon, no doubt.  It's the realization that you're not being spontaneous and that you're aware of what you're doing.

So, with something like the power drills, crunching of the veges or boys making sheep noises, aside from being kitsch...they're comedic.  And no joke is funny back-to-back, twice in a row.  They worked on the original 1966 recordings, yes.  I'm pleased to find out that Brian, knows comedy and knows the purpose of those parts, that he didn't want to keep those in the new recordings. 

...but alas, his "associates" ...well, we all know better, right? 

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Wirestone
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« Reply #116 on: August 07, 2008, 09:05:46 AM »

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And, I conjecture, he simply had to be self-conscious to create. To say to himself continuously: 'now I'm gonna do this or that, I must call him or her, will they like what I am planning?' and so on and so forth.

This also explains the comment made during the recording of BWPS that Brian gave Darian permission to kick his butt to record the best vocals possible. Brian realized that he needed someone on his case to live up to his potential. And he got it. Sad? In some ways yes. But also self-aware.
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #117 on: August 07, 2008, 09:14:40 AM »

I'm sorry, but I'm missing the point/objections to the power drill. On the original "Workshop", there were various tools used, including hammers, saws, and power drills. Right? Am I hearing that right? So, what's wrong with bringing a power drill out in the live performance? It was trying to duplicate the recording, it was fun, it gave Brian something to "play". What am I missing here?

Excellent question.  Yes, you heard right!  Here's the problem...Have you ever thrown a party, and it was awesome and you think "man, I gots to do this again!"  So the next day or weekend you try to throw the same party.  But something's not right.

Maybe it was a recipe, or even a "romantic setting" that worked one time...but as you tried to recreate the scene, it seemed awkward -- lacking -- off.

It's a very real phenomenon, no doubt.  It's the realization that you're not being spontaneous and that you're aware of what you're doing.

So, with something like the power drills, crunching of the veges or boys making sheep noises, aside from being kitsch...they're comedic.  And no joke is funny back-to-back, twice in a row.  They worked on the original 1966 recordings, yes.  I'm pleased to find out that Brian, knows comedy and knows the purpose of those parts, that he didn't want to keep those in the new recordings. 

...but alas, his "associates" ...well, we all know better, right?

I'm with you on most of your points/opinions Bean bag, but this one, well.....

Hey, I have a question that always bothered me (yes, I'm a sick man), but it's about power drills, and, electricity in general. And SMiLE. Am I going off-topic? What thread is this?

I always associated "Workshop" with "Barnyard", or the barn in "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow", or the cabin in "Cabinessence". You know, building the home on the range. But, did they even have electricity back in them there days?
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Roger Ryan
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« Reply #118 on: August 07, 2008, 09:19:09 AM »

I always associated "Workshop" with "Barnyard", or the barn in "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow", or the cabin in "Cabinessence". You know, building the home on the range. But, did they even have electricity back in them there days?

I've thought the exact same thing for years! The power drill is really inappropriate for the historical frame of the SMiLE songs, but then that could be part of the joke.
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #119 on: August 07, 2008, 09:35:47 AM »

I always associated "Workshop" with "Barnyard", or the barn in "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow", or the cabin in "Cabinessence". You know, building the home on the range. But, did they even have electricity back in them there days?

I've thought the exact same thing for years! The power drill is really inappropriate for the historical frame of the SMiLE songs, but then that could be part of the joke.

And tennis shoes? When did tennis "start"? police
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The Heartical Don
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« Reply #120 on: August 07, 2008, 10:33:36 AM »


This would explain that he took longer to realize a project; and also many an odd moment - e.g. when he told George Martin in a TV documentary that Martin, by a couple of manipulations of the mixing desk, created a 'Pet Sounds' far finer than he (Brian) himself had made. Which is a truly embarrassing moment, a typical 'later Brian' moment where he tries to be sooo polite, sooo self-effacing, sooo modest to other parties.

I didn't take it that way. I thought it was very typical of Brian, "old Brian" or "modern Brian." It reminded me of that moment on the Pet Sounds Sessions box where one of the musicians messes up a keyboard part on I'm Waiting for the Day and Brian marvels at the inventiveness of it. "How did you play that?"  I think with George Martin, it was the same thing-- Brian giving credit to someone for whom he has respect.

Tks for commenting Amy -
I respectfully disagree. I see what you're driving at, and your example is well-chosen. But I got the dialogue with Martin in another way; in that Brian just was too humble, wanting desperately to be liked.
Ah well, let's agree to disagree.
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Bean Bag
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« Reply #121 on: August 07, 2008, 11:25:15 AM »

Quote from: Sheriff John Stone
I'm with you on most of your points/opinions Bean bag, but this one, well.....
Grin  This one's tough, I understand.  It might be more in reaction to the live performance -- I'm not sure if object as much to them in the studio version.  If that helps!  But in going with my gut, the animal noises and power tooling around, well...my gut tells me it's a distraction, to put it nicely.


It's interesting to note that Brian himself was suspect of keeping it in for Smile's completion--perhaps wary that it would come off like a reenactment


Also, I feel it increases the sterility a tad.  As if they were to re-record the "Go!" at the beginning of Little Honda.  But instead of yelling "Go!" someone half-a55edly just mumble "Go."  I guess its almost akin to a performer doing the same joke every night--acting like its spontaneous each time.  Kind of spoils the magic to witness that.

Sort of like that but different.  Undecided
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The Heartical Don
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« Reply #122 on: August 07, 2008, 11:28:58 AM »

Quote from: Sheriff John Stone
I'm with you on most of your points/opinions Bean bag, but this one, well.....
Grin  This one's tough, I understand.  It might be more in reaction to the live performance -- I'm not sure if object as much to them in the studio version.  If that helps!  But in going with my gut, the animal noises and power tooling around, well...my gut tells me it's a distraction, to put it nicely.  It's interesting to note that Brian himself was suspect of keeping it in. 

Also, I feel it increases the sterility a tad.  As if they were to re-record the "Go!" at the beginning of Little Honda.  But instead of yelling "Go!" someone half-a55edly just mumble "Go."  I guess its almost akin to a performer doing the same joke every night--acting like its spontaneous each time.  Kind of spoils the magic.  Sort of like that but different.  Undecided

Rumour has it that Sea Of Tunes will shortly release a 10-CD box titled 'The Black & Decker Tapes', with nothing but animal and drill noises on it. Could that be true?
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« Reply #123 on: August 07, 2008, 11:32:18 AM »

Rumour has it that Sea Of Tunes will shortly release a 10-CD box titled 'The Black & Decker Tapes', with nothing but animal and drill noises on it. Could that be true?

Only if is spontaneous. 
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The Heartical Don
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« Reply #124 on: August 07, 2008, 11:43:50 AM »

Rumour has it that Sea Of Tunes will shortly release a 10-CD box titled 'The Black & Decker Tapes', with nothing but animal and drill noises on it. Could that be true?

Only if is spontaneous. 

 LOL LOL LOL (spontaneous, and not rehearsed)
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