Surf's Up

[ShenzhenLost]

just wondering about this...

Domenic Priore states in his book 'The Story Of Brian Wilson's Lost Masterpiece Smile' on page 94 that a finished version of 'Surf's Up' from early 1967 does exist but to this day, has not been released.  Does anyone know if this is true?  I mean, I was under the impression that only the first section was completed - which of course was used on their 'Surf's Up' album.  After all, if there is a finished version of the song from 1967 then why would they use Brian's demo recording for the middle to end section?  Surely they would've just pulled the completed track out and (if they wished) overdubbed new vocals onto that in 1971? 
Makes no sense to me. 

[brianc]

He claims that it exists, but from what I know, it's never turned up.

Alan Boyd noted that the tape box for "Surf's Up (Part 2)" is empty. But that doesn't mean the tape was stolen. It may have been empty back in the early '70s, when Steve Desper and Carl Wilson were piecing it together for the 1971 released version. Brian said in a 1968 interview that the song briefly broke the Beach Boys up, and Jules Siegal noted a major fight during one of the "Surf's Up" sessions. Not to get all conspirtorial, but perhaps Brian did destroy that tape.

[Dancing Bear]

(...) and Jules Siegal noted a major fight during one of the "Surf's Up" sessions.

Are you refering to the "went very badly" quote by Jules Siegel, in front of the cameras?

[brianc]

Yes.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Never happened, at least not in front of any cameras. This much is clear from Oppenheim's reel notes.

A session "going very badly" could just mean the performances weren't good... and that's almost certainly what he does mean. Had there been any kind of confrontation, he would have noted it - lot of difference between "going very badly" and "Mike & Brian had a set-to".

[Ethan]

Not too sure he would have noted 'set to'. 'VERY badly' is an over the top description if you were not musically trained etc.
So would assume he was referring to the inter group relations at said incident.....don't you?

[Andrew G. Doe]

OK, let's strip it back to the basics: here is exactly what Seigel wrote...

"Earlier in the evening the film crew had covered a Beach Boys vocal session which had gone very badly".

Nothing about any fights, or even disagreements, just that a session had not gone well (and as we now know that this session was for the bvs to "Wonderful" & "Cabin Essence" (12/15/66), that isn't too surprising). Further, Oppenheim's reel notes make no reference at all to any disagreements, which would of course have been great TV and thus marked down. Moreover, I recall that someone (Cam Mott, probably) contacted Seigel and put that question to him, and that he couldn't recall any such disagreement. Finally, by the time Brian got to recording his demo, the rest of the band had gone home - so there was no-one to argue with anyway.   

[Fun Is In]

Not too sure he would have noted 'set to'. 'VERY badly' is an over the top description if you were not musically trained etc.
So would assume he was referring to the inter group relations at said incident.....don't you?

No.
could have been, but that's putting way more between the lines than is actually in the lines.

[brianc]

I always took it to mean they had a fight, but that was probably me (and others) associating the cryptic lyrics and the time-frame with the roundabout rift between Brian, Mike and Van Dyke, as so often spoken of by Van Dyke and others around at that time.

Regardless, Carl Wilson, Steve Desper and Jack Rieley confirmed that they used what they had for the 1971 version. And the "SU, Pt. 2" box is now empty. So it was either stolen, was tossed or went missing in some other fashion. Maybe we'll never know, but to the original question, Domenic could not have been certain, in his book, that such a version exists.

[Jay]

Maybe this is just me, but I wouldn't put much faith into anything Priore says.

[Jason]

Domenic's idea of "information" regarding Smile recently is wrong at best and laughable at worst.

[Jay]

There should be a law that forbids certain people to write books. 

[John]

Domenic's idea of "information" regarding Smile recently is wrong at best and laughable at worst.
[/quote

Is this the book that has him counting the "eight" parts on Pet Sounds not sung by Brian? That's an awful book.

[MBE]

The Dumb Angel books are well made, but I too disliked the Smile book. No objectivety at all.

[Mr. Wilson]

Surfs Up is such a touching + beautiful song..Ive allways wondered why anybody in BB wouldn't  recognize the magic in that song...The 1st time i ever heard that song was on that TV show..I had never gotten high or drunk at the time.. I was 15 yrs old..I didnt understand what the words meant + i still was puzzled + MOVED by the song.. I knew it was something special.. Just like the 1st time i heard pet sounds..I had never felt most of the emotions in those songs..But i knew it was something different + SPECIAL....Just had to get older to understand.!!

[XY]

"Earlier in the evening the film crew had covered a Beach Boys vocal session which had gone very badly".

Oppenheim's revealing explanation on what had gone very badly:

“A film crew and I went to Columbia Records’s studios with Brian and his friends, and they were doing tiny little pieces that made no sense in and of themselves…just a few notes…also the sessions didn’t make a scene that was at all interesting…I had hoped to get Brian masterminding a recording session, but instead it was terribly spread out…Brian was a little spacy, but he didn’t seem drugged.“

[brianc]

Domenic's idea of "information" regarding Smile recently is wrong at best and laughable at worst.

I think the book's strengths are the telling of how the scene sort of unfolded in and around Brian, and how the music spoke to it's time and place. Domenic captures that like no one else. There are some incredible chapters in that book, especially the heartbreaking "Smiley Smile" through the early '70s chapter. And the chapter after that, about the fans speaking out. Those are amazing, and show incredible insight.

Now, since I was around and helped Domenic to edit the book, I'll chime in here and make a few comments.

[1] The book was done quickly. Domenic may have agreed to a time-table that would have worked under different circumstances, but in this case, it was pretty tight scheduling, and I don't remember him having a lot of access to research materials. Maybe he didn't ask all of the right people, but there was the inside threat that Brian's camp was hiring someone to do their OWN book on "Smile," and that Priore's unauthorized book was not what THEY wanted. In the end, no other book was forthcoming, and they relented to give Domenic a foreword by Brian.

[2] Domenic and I did some serious edits to make sure that no key tracks or band influences or major events were missing from the text. To that end, I feel like the story really encapsulates the time and place that music came out of.

[3] There were some technical errors in there that were beyond excuse. I wish we had a budget from the publishers for me to go in and fact-check each one of his claims. Alas, Domenic appointed me his editor without the publisher's consent. Not that they cared. He wasn't appointed an editor himself. But my editing amounted to us going to a garden burger restaurant on Melrose and sitting down to plow over the pages. I would have never, in a million years, thought that he would have gotten simple Billaord chart information wrong, knowing that Brad Elliott and Keith Badman's books were out there. But alas, that stuff was not TRULY fact-checked. Again, our editing process was mostly for typos, grammatical errors and making sure the story flowed correctly. But we edited for three days, and then the book went off. It was several months over deadline, as it were. But as much as I put into the edits I did on grammar and story, I really SHOULD have double-checked him on his technical information, and I regret that I didn't. I assumed, and that doesn't bode well in the world of published words.

[4] There was an attempt made by myself and Bob Hanes to catch Domenic up on all the "Smile" material and knowledge that emerged post-1995. He'd been working on a book about the Sunset Strip in the '60s from 1995 on, and was pretty unaware of the internet scholars that were emerging. I don't consider myself a scholar, in that regard. I don't document things like others do here, and I've put my foot in my mouth more times than I care to admit on message boards. But I DO print out messages that have new, key information, and I was privvy to some new tapes that had emerged since Domenic proverbially left the "Smile" scene. I did my best to enlighten Domenic, via email and phone. I was appalled at some of the things that got in there, which were things like a theory from the Smile Shoppe that he wrote in as fact, or, for example, the emergence of "The Elements" vocal demos... which may or may not have been "The Elements" exactly, but with water, air and earth themes, one can only assume that they were related to the theme of "The Elements." I never thought in a million years that he would write about that session tape as being "The Elements" piano demos. But such is life. Things like that example of "The Elements" demos... well... it was something that was added at the last minute. I should have been more clear. I don't remember exactly, but I assume that I told him over the phone, "Don't forget about 'The Elements' demos..." or I wrote something in the column of one of the printouts. We talked about it a million times, and I even played him the tape, but it was one of those things that didn't sink in, and we were out of time. It's a terrible excuse, but it's how things went down.

All in all, the book has more positives than negatives. That's just my opinion. It dares to have an opinion on the social structure of the band. Some think it's biased and unfair. I think it is a valid POV. I also think it's well-written and insightful. But I would go on record, and Domenic as my friend knows this, as saying that it needs a serious edit for factual errors. But I still stand by 95% of the book. And until someone comes up with one better, I herald him for making such an effort. Books are hard to write. I'm working on my second book now, without Domenic as a writing partner, and it's been tough to know where to start some days.

[dogear]

The book was a good read, despite it's errors. I really enjoyed Dumd Angel #4 as well. I often don't agree with Domenic's views on things, but at least he has an opinion on things. There are books on the BB which might get all the facts right, but are boring neveretheless. Domenic's aren't.

[Bicyclerider]

Oppenheim's revealing explanation on what had gone very badly:

“A film crew and I went to Columbia Records’s studios with Brian and his friends, and they were doing tiny little pieces that made no sense in and of themselves…just a few notes…also the sessions didn’t make a scene that was at all interesting…I had hoped to get Brian masterminding a recording session, but instead it was terribly spread out…Brian was a little spacy, but he didn’t seem drugged.“

Would you characterize the above as a vocal session that "went very badly?"  Uninteresting, spacey, disjointed, yeah - but not very badly.  Makes me think SOMETHING else happened.  Not a fight necessarily, but maybe the band members couldn't sing what Brian wanted to sing, and questioned what the hell are we singing here, and Brian gave up in frustration.  I just don't get a very badly from Oppenheim's explanation.

[John]

The book was a good read, despite it's errors. I really enjoyed Dumd Angel #4 as well. I often don't agree with Domenic's views on things, but at least he has an opinion on things. There are books on the BB which might get all the facts right, but are boring neveretheless. Domenic's aren't.

So it's better to spread falsehoods as long as they're interesting?

[brianc]

You sound like Jimmy Falwell, dude.

Spreading flasehoods. There are some errors in there, and some of his opinions are blatant and biased. But that's publishing for you. Some might find the actions of the parties involved with Brian through the years to be less egregious than Domenic does, but he's added up the story as best as he knows how. So, agree or disagree, but don't act like some cardinal sin was committed.

Thanks, dogear, for the compliments on Dumb Angel 4. I don't hear much in the way of feedback from Beach Boys fans, which probably means they didn't buy it. Hehehehe.

[Jason]

Hey, I'm sure Domenic's a nice guy and all that, but we're also entitled to our opinions. Just because his are in a book doesn't make them any more valid. I apologise for hurting anyone's feelings.

[brianc]

I agree that you are entitled to your opinions, and they are valid. I just throught the "speading falsehoods" things was a bit of a stretch. There's handful of unfortunate factual errors in the book, but I think John was referring to Domenic's strong opinions about the roles of those involved with Brian's music as being falsely misleading. I was only pointing out that those were his opinions... his op-ed assesment of how the Beach Boys saga has taken place.

[Jason]

Point taken, and understood.

Perhaps a second version of this book can fix the errors. I do think there is potential for a good Smile tome, not unlike LLVS but in its own league. A proper book about the whole Smile scene is a great idea, but we're not there yet. One day, hopefully...

[Ian]

I would add that one has to really do as much original research as possible. A Beach Boy book is no different from any other history book-you can't trust secondary sources.  Using Keith Badman's book as a reliable source for dates and venues, etc-is not original research.  In fact that book contains hundreds of demonstratable errors.  Doesn't make it a bad book (I find it very entertaining) but it isn't a source for exact dates or all shows, etc