New Story To Me...Dennis beats up Manson

[Pretty Funky]

Never heard this one before. Any one heard it?

http://justpressplay.net/music/music-news/39-news/3713-song-stories-qnever-learn-not-to-loveq-1968.html


Song Stories - "Never Learn Not To Love" (1968)       
Written by Tyler Barlass     
Wednesday, 16 July 2008 

In honor of the re-release of the late Beach Boy Dennis Wilson’s solo album Pacific Ocean Blue, this addition of Song Stories is going to focus on a Dennis sung tune. Luckily Dennis had one heck of an interesting social life which subsequently spilled over into his art. The song I’m about to cover may not sound familiar, but if I add the sub caption of ‘How Charles Manson wrote a Beach Boys song,’ hopefully you’ll stay interested enough to read on.



The Beach Boys - "Never Learn Not To Love" (1968)
From the album 20/20

Dennis Wilson was the all too often forgotten drummer of The Beach Boys. Though he was the only member of the band that actually partook in the sport of surfing, he rarely got a chance to truly show his skills as a musician and songwriter. He was featured on lead vocals on only a handful of Beach Boy songs.

The most well documented part of Dennis’ life was without a doubt his shortcomings. Dennis was a heavy drinker and drug user, a habit that would eventually lead to his untimely death. He also had a suspect taste in friends, namely the infamous involvement he had with another musician that went by the name Charles Manson.

I could go into deep detail about Manson, his crimes, and his relationship with Dennis Wilson; but no matter how interesting it is, I just don’t have the time for that. Instead I’ll say that in the late ‘60s Dennis took Manson in, allowed him and his followers to live under his roof and even helped book Manson studio time to record his music.

Once it came time for The Beach Boys to record material for their 20/20 album in 1968, Dennis decided to use one of Manson’s songs, the creepy “Cease to Exist.” Why Wilson thought to use this song rather than one of Manson’s brighter more pop oriented numbers is beyond me, but never the less Manson was pleased to have one of his songs used on a Beach Boys album. The only stipulation was that Dennis was not to alter the lyrics of the song in anyway.

Once the more psychedelic version of the song hit the airwaves as the b-side of “Blue Birds Over The Mountain” in December of 1968, Manson found out a number of upsetting facts about his song. First the name of the song had changed to “Never Learn Not To Love,” secondly the songs lyrics had been altered against his wishes, and thirdly the song writing was credited to Dennis and Dennis alone. Now Dennis may have had good reason to forbid writing credits to Manson, such as the fact that he and his ‘family’ had cost Wilson a huge sum of money while they were staying with him. By not allowing Manson a chance at song royalties may have seemed to Dennis like a way to get some of his money back. No matter what the reasons were, the series of events surrounding “Never Learn Not To Love” had apparently infuriated Manson enough to threaten Dennis with murder.

The following series of events have been speculated upon, and no one knows for sure if they are true or not; but, if afriend'sstory is true, it’s an interesting one. According to one of The Beach Boy’s co-writers Van Dyke Parks, one day Charles Manson set out to make good on his threat. As the story goes, once Manson made it to Dennis’ house, Dennis proceeded to “beat him up.” The image of Dennis Wilson kicking Charles Manson’s ass is one that I am currently reveling in.
While the album that Dennis helped Manson record ended up hitting the market in 1974, years after Manson had already been imprisoned for orchestrating a number of brutal murders; The Beach Boy’s “Never Learn Not To Love” is the most visible reminder in pop culture of Manson’s song writing abilities. Though the song inevitably was given The Beach Boys treatment, such as the full harmonies by the other members of the band; the song did obtain the stirringly creepy nature that “Cease to Exist” had originally contained. When Dennis Wilson emotionally cries out “Come in now, closer… closer… closer…” as the gothic style backing music swirls to a crescendo, it’s hard not to get a chill.
 

[Fun Is In]

So, some time well after SMiLE folded, VDP was hanging out at Denny's Manson-family-infested place and saw this scenario unfold?

It COULD have happened. 

[Dancing Bear]

I'm not saying it didn't happen, but it's kind of a pseudo-macho compensation for the frustration of having Charles Manson as Denny's guru for nearly a year. He should have known better. But Denny kicked Chuck's ass in the end, so it's alright. 

[Jon Stebbins]

This story has been around for a long long time. Van Dyke injected it into the press surrounding the reaction to the Beach Boys American Family mini-series, he was none too pleased and this was one of the scenarios he laid out as an alternative to the way things were portrayed in the awful TV version. The person who wrote this article probably just Googled Manson/Dennis and came up with this...its been around on the internet for many a moon...I believe it was Bill Holdship's orig. article in the L.A. press in 99 or 2000...and/or the letters generated from said article that had Van Dyke's quote, which is very real.

[Pretty Funky]

So just another unknown. Thanks for the replies.

[Rocker]

While we're on this topic, when and why did Dennis beat up Jim Morrison (as I have heard) ?

[MBE]

This story has been around for a long long time. Van Dyke injected it into the press surrounding the reaction to the Beach Boys American Family mini-series, he was none too pleased and this was one of the scenarios he laid out as an alternative to the way things were portrayed in the awful TV version. The person who wrote this article probably just Googled Manson/Dennis and came up with this...its been around on the internet for many a moon...I believe it was Bill Holdship's orig. article in the L.A. press in 99 or 2000...and/or the letters generated from said article that had Van Dyke's quote, which is very real.

To add to that Van Dyke did state he heard it from someone else but he thought it true.

[Exapno Mapcase]

"While we're on this topic, when and why did Dennis beat up Jim Morrison (as I have heard) ?"

Because he was another self-important d_i_c_k of a lead singer.

[MBE]

Never knew about that.

[KokoMoses]

QUOTE: "While we're on this topic, when and why did Dennis beat up Jim Morrison (as I have heard) ?"



Hmmmmm, I think we're getting our bearded, LSD enthusiast, singers mixed up!

[Jon Stebbins]

QUOTE: "While we're on this topic, when and why did Dennis beat up Jim Morrison (as I have heard) ?"



Hmmmmm, I think we're getting our bearded, LSD enthusiast, singers mixed up!

No its true. Apparently DW took on Morrison AND Eric Burdon at the same time outside the Whiskey around 1969...I'm not kidding. They were drunkenly heckling some other poor singer that night and Dennis took exception. Ed Roach might have the pure details of this incident.

[Bicyclerider]

Jon, will these stories be in your updated the Real Beach Boy book?

[Surfer Joe]

Yeah, I wanted to stress that Parks didn't claim to be an eyewitness to this event with Manson.  I think it was something he said he'd heard, so I'd need a lot more information before I gave it any credit.

On the Morrison thing, I had heard it was indirect. Dennis, having had a bellyfull of "I Will Follow Him", beat up Little Peggy March on the set of "Shindig", who subsequently beat up Janis Joplin at C.C. Brown's, who later brained Morrison with a whiskey bottle at Barney's Beanery.  This gave Dennis the laugh over Morrison until Janis Joplin brained Dennis with a whiskey bottle, also at Barney's Beanery.  Matters evened out somewhat when Bruce Johnston fought Joplin to a standstill at Ed DeBevic's, following (as usual) provocative remarks she had allegedly made about his shorts. Rumors that Bruce pistol-whipped Little Peggy March at an Antelope Valley livestock show are completely false. However, Johnston did administer a painful wedgie to singer (and Hawthorne High alumnus) Chris Montez backstage at Knott's Berry Farm, after a heated discussion of politics, and Montez had previously pistol-whipped March at Main Street, Disneyland for unknown reasons, during an era when Disneyland allowed concealed weapons. Montez, incidentally, had also beaten up Charles Manson (at Chasen's), only to receive, in retaliation, another painful wedgie from Family member Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme (again, at Barney's Beanery).  Fromme, Manson, March and Montez are currently serving life sentences on unrelated matters.

[John]

Excellent post. Although I think a reference to a squirt gun filled with pee would have tipped it over the edge.

[Surfer Joe]

I was afraid that if I brought up all the David Marks connections we might get off-topic.  But as an aside, he was banned at some point from every location mentioned above, for the reason to which you alluded, except for the Antelope Valley fairgrounds, where the attitude towards projectile urine is a bit more progressive. On a happier note, Dave seems to be dried out and weapon-free these days.

[KokoMoses]

QUOTE: "While we're on this topic, when and why did Dennis beat up Jim Morrison (as I have heard) ?"



Hmmmmm, I think we're getting our bearded, LSD enthusiast, singers mixed up!

No its true. Apparently DW took on Morrison AND Eric Burdon at the same time outside the Whiskey around 1969...I'm not kidding. They were drunkenly heckling some other poor singer that night and Dennis took exception. Ed Roach might have the pure details of this incident.

That sounds like Dennis.

I know that Karen Lamm beat Dennis up at the Whisky.

Didn't Arthur Lee beat up Morrison too?

[DonnaK]

I remember reading somewhere that Dennis only knocked Manson on his butt, didn't "beat him up". It would probably only take one punch from Dennis to floor the tiny Manson anyway.

[TylerB]

I was actually the writer of that article.
It's true that I came across the Van Dyke quotes while just trolling the net, I made sure to specifically state that I was unsure whether that portion of the story was truthful or not though.

Anyway, I've personally been converted into a huge Beach Boys fan over the past year or two. I really like the community you guys have going on here and just might make myself a regular if you people don't mind.

[Surfer Joe]

You'll be extremely welcome here, and glad you've discovered one of the richest musical legacies out there.  Feel free to share your testimony sometime- I'm always interested in when and how people came to the faith.

[Pretty Funky]

Welcome Tyler.

If you have any other stories to do with the Beach Boys you can do a lot worse than hanging around here. A lot of knowledge and I am sure many would be willing to share it rather than have incorrect details written, as some writers of articles have tended to do.

[sofonanm]

Obviously Manson is a scrawny little waif but there's no way Dennis Wilson could've beat him up. I mean, just think about it. We're talking about a guy who was in jail all of his adult life. It's obvious that as part of his necessary prison survival strategy, to compensate for his small stature, he became a manipulator, but that doesn't mean he doesn't know some dirty fightin' techniques. There's an interview with him and Geraldo Rivera, who is MUCH taller and broader than Manson, and they get into a conflicting bit of space together, with Manson saying that he could destroy him - and Geraldo moves back a bit, obviously nervous because Manson was not handcuffed, and throws out his own macho threat, but in all probability, Manson's probably been dealing with guys his size his whole stay in prison and could have him down in seconds.

[CarCrazyCutie]

Just my thoughts but maybe it's that Manson has been more intimidating over the last 40 years because of what we now know, but when Dennis knew him he didn't have that infamous status. So Dennis, being Dennis, probably didn't have that fear of him and wouldn't have hesitated to put him in his place if it indeed came to that.

[sofonanm]

Just my thoughts but maybe it's that Manson has been more intimidating over the last 40 years because of what we now know, but when Dennis knew him he didn't have that infamous status. So Dennis, being Dennis, probably didn't have that fear of him and wouldn't have hesitated to put him in his place if it indeed came to that.

i have to disagree. everyone knew that manson was the center of what was going on around him at that time. all the guys were attracted to the girls but they came to know that they were manson's first, dig?

to add to that, like in that recently posted interview article, manson was seen as a sort of guru in his own right, and probably invoked both fear and undue respect in the people who hung out with him (i.e., dennis).

and to add to THAT, manson was known to be a pretty far out guy, sort of like head shaman overseeing his little initiates come to spiritual fruition. unpredictable and rough, like uncarved wood from being in prison his whole life.

manson is also fairly ruthless. he sliced some guy's face up with a sword, tied up the people in one of those houses on the murder nights and put bags over their heads so his friends could kill them without remorse, shot a guy in the gut during a bad drug deal, etc.

besides, manson had the power of his followers. sort of like a "mess with me, mess with them" thing. tons of people seem to have been bit off due to slandering or working against him, like leslie van houten's lawyer who went missing and was found dead in some mountains in a different year.

not the sort of guy you just bash around without thinking twice, y'know? 

[Surfer Joe]

All fair points, but it's also worth noting that- according to all of his biographers-  many of Manson's early years in the penal system were spent getting buggered by larger inmates of his own gender, so his alleged fighting skills during that period certainly remain a matter of speculation.

On the other hand, his thousand-yard stare and general bughouse craziness were certainly being honed by those interludes to the perfection that later won him the coveted cover of LIFE magazine.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5IrRe2F7qY

[sofonanm]

All fair points, but it's also worth noting that- according to all of his biographers-  many of Manson's early years in the penal system were spent getting buggered by larger inmates of his own gender, so his alleged fighting skills during that period certainly remain a matter of speculation.

On the other hand, his thousand-yard stare and general bughouse craziness were certainly being honed by those interludes to the perfection that later won him the coveted cover of LIFE magazine.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5IrRe2F7qY

Manson's eyes are a poor man's Rasputin's.

Hell, Manson is a poor man's Rasputin.

Check out the original, the master: