Lowest point in the BB career?

[phirnis]

If Brian had written Kokomo, you would've dismissed it as a piece of crap, or, at best, workmanlike and you would'be blamed his wife and thge revisionists would'be blamed whoever he was working with at the time.  If any other band had come out with Kokomo, nobody here would've remembered it.  It's okay in a middle-aged 80s pop fashion, but nothing more. I prefer some of the stuff on Bummer to this, largely because of Carl and Al's singing.

Mee too. Lahaina Aloha blows Kokomo out of the water.

If Brian would've been co-writer of Kokomo, people of course would argue that he didn't have that much of an impact.

[adamghost]

I would argue "Kokomo" ended the Beach Boys, because it ruined Mike Love as a writer.

What I mean to say is, Mike was writing craptastic material before that, but he also came up with occasionally interesting -- well, passable -- stuff..."Rock And Roll To The Rescue" was proof that the Mike/Melcher team didn't have to blow chunks.  Then "Kokomo" goes to #1, Mike finally has his validation, and what does he do next?  An entire album of "Kokomo Part II, III," etc.  Everything Mike did after that reeked of trying to recapture lightning -- he wasn't even subtle about it.  And that's why SUMMER IN PARADISE and STILL CRUISIN' to a lesser extent are so awful.  It's not just that Mike was trying to be commercial -- he was also being cynical or worse, didn't know any better.  And people can smell that.  They don't buy it.

The proof to me is that the follow up to the Beach Boys' biggest single ever only went to #93 on the charts.  Do you realize how bad a song has to suck to not chart higher than that following a #1?  And that even though the Beach Boys charted regularly throughout the '80s, they never charted again after that.  So yeah, "Kokomo" was a low point.  Mike lucked into a #1 single and then spent the rest of their brief recording career trying to repeat the formula in the most clueless and obvious way possible.

[MBE]

You raise a good question what was the last really good Mike Love material. Well First Love was pretty darn good, a select few of the Celebration tracks were decent. KTSA had one or two good tracks by him. By the time he was doing those Adrain Baker sessions though it just seems like he lost it. I said before that I like SNJ but he had a lot of co-writers on that. I don't know but I really think he was a good writer until 77 or so. I am even among the select few the like SDT.

[KokoMoses]

Do mean RIGHT before Kokomo Mike was writing craptastic and maybe passable stuff? That I can buy, but if one were to list ALL of Mike's co-writing (and writing credits) with The Beach Boys from 1961 up till 88.... I think we'd have to rate the guy slightly higher than that!

Hey, Kokomo may be silly and not really very deep (at least not as deep as "Johnny Carson") but what exactly makes it so bad? Is it the mere fact that an aging dinosaur rock band had a late career hit without the help of it's main genius writer? The fact that somehow a bunch of no-talent leeches managed to write a catchy song? I mean, admit it, Kokomo IS catchy if nothing else. And there really isn't much else needed for a hit pop song. Throw in Beach Boys harmonies and a Carl lead and what do you really have to hate? Mike, Terry Melcher, and Jon Phillips certainly didn't break any molds as far as vapidity is concerned. So, who cares? It's 1988, most Top 40 pop sucks just as bad or worse and probably still does today.... Even Brian thinks Kokomo is good, and he's the real reason we're all supposed to hate it anyway, so jeez!!!!

Also, like it or not, Kokomo WAS something of an acheivement! How many dinasour bands have had number one singles so late in their career? What was the last Stones number one? Or Who number one? Or so on? If anything, Kokomo just proves that even the silliest and superficial Beach Boys qualities have the ability to grab a hold of even the most mainstream and unhip top 40 audience. I won't defend the horrendous decisions mabe by The Beach Boys after Kokomo hit, but if I were them I'd be rightly proud.

[MBE]

For me it has nothing to do with Brian. I like Brian and Dennis best but I don't look down on the other guys at all. I think Carl, Mike, Al, David, Ricky, Blondie, and Bruce had talent to spare. They were capable of being great even as late as 1988 so I think the fact that it was just top 40 fodder was a letdown.  I didn't hear my band in there. Simply I just don't like it.

I remember even when Getcha Back and California Dreamin came out, there was something unique about them. I don't love those records, but I don't know they stood out in some ways. When I hear the Beach Boys classic work let's say 62-72 it just is so intrinsically good and special. Nothing else is quite like it. Even with the uneven 76-80 era, it still feels like a group who had something of substance to them.In My Car or Smart Girls are far worse then Kokomo. Outside of maybe 2-3 tracks so is Summer In Paradise. I just look at Kokomo as a very nothing song. It was something of a lift in their careers but did they group together and build a strong album around that sucess? No it took well over a year for an LP to come out and the it had three old songs, soundtrack material that was average at best, and two or three new songs only one of which I think had something to it. When that album came out I just felt that they had blown it. I think what irritates me today is when people clap more for Kokomo then Here Today. They should be known for the latter not the former.

[KokoMoses]

I agree that Getcha Back is a much better song than Kokomo. Most people can relate to what Getcha Back is about. Not a lot of people other than millionaire rock stars can relate to relaxin on the beach in Kokomo without a care in the world, but hey, Kokomo was the hit song!!!!

I think what happened, and what happens with a lot of bands who've been around forever, is The Beach Boys got their jollies playing live and being cheered at and making money, and left it at that. Kokomo was a fluke and that was it. I don't think they had it in them, or even cared, to forge a third great era of Beach Boys recordings. By then, things were too complicated, and the Beach Boys had their families and private lives and played their shows and went home at night. They'd had some huge highs, but it all seemed to come with a price. Maybe it was nice to simply coast. And I mean it in the nicest way possible. Brian is different. Brian has a lot of supporters pushing for him to give his best and to nurture his artistry. Mike's hardly had a nice word said about him in over 40 years, and the other guys (even Carl) have been treated like mouthpeices for Brian and have had all their great struggles for relevence appreciated by a small few and ignored by the rest. Who can blame them for "Wipe-Out"

Ok, bad example.

[mikeyj]

For me it has nothing to do with Brian. I like Brian and Dennis best but I don't look down on the other guys at all. I think Carl, Mike, Al, David, Ricky, Blondie, and Bruce had talent to spare. They were capable of being great even as late as 1988 so I think the fact that it was just top 40 fodder was a letdown.  I didn't hear my band in there. Simply I just don't like it.

I remember even when Getcha Back and California Dreamin came out, there was something unique about them. I don't love those records, but I don't know they stood out in some ways. When I hear the Beach Boys classic work let's say 62-72 it just is so intrinsically good and special. Nothing else is quite like it. Even with the uneven 76-80 era, it still feels like a group who had something of substance to them.In My Car or Smart Girls are far worse then Kokomo. Outside of maybe 2-3 tracks so is Summer In Paradise. I just look at Kokomo as a very nothing song. It was something of a lift in their careers but did they group together and build a strong album around that sucess? No it took well over a year for an LP to come out and the it had three old songs, soundtrack material that was average at best, and two or three new songs only one of which I think had something to it. When that album came out I just felt that they had blown it. I think what irritates me today is when people clap more for Kokomo then Here Today. They should be known for the latter not the former.

GREAT post MBE!! I agree with pretty much everything you say

[Sheriff John Stone]

Do mean RIGHT before Kokomo Mike was writing craptastic and maybe passable stuff? That I can buy, but if one were to list ALL of Mike's co-writing (and writing credits) with The Beach Boys from 1961 up till 88.... I think we'd have to rate the guy slightly higher than that!

Hey, Kokomo may be silly and not really very deep (at least not as deep as "Johnny Carson") but what exactly makes it so bad? Is it the mere fact that an aging dinosaur rock band had a late career hit without the help of it's main genius writer? The fact that somehow a bunch of no-talent leeches managed to write a catchy song? I mean, admit it, Kokomo IS catchy if nothing else. And there really isn't much else needed for a hit pop song. Throw in Beach Boys harmonies and a Carl lead and what do you really have to hate? Mike, Terry Melcher, and Jon Phillips certainly didn't break any molds as far as vapidity is concerned. So, who cares? It's 1988, most Top 40 pop sucks just as bad or worse and probably still does today.... Even Brian thinks Kokomo is good, and he's the real reason we're all supposed to hate it anyway, so jeez!!!!

Also, like it or not, Kokomo WAS something of an acheivement! How many dinasour bands have had number one singles so late in their career? What was the last Stones number one? Or Who number one? Or so on? If anything, Kokomo just proves that even the silliest and superficial Beach Boys qualities have the ability to grab a hold of even the most mainstream and unhip top 40 audience. I won't defend the horrendous decisions mabe by The Beach Boys after Kokomo hit, but if I were them I'd be rightly proud.

erikdavid5000, all valid points! And Jasper's posts, too.

Just imagine that Brian did write/record "Kokomo" for a second, and it went to No. 1. He/we would be ecstatic because he had a hit, even a single that charted! Fans would be saying, "See, Brian still has it. He could knock out these kinds of songs easily if he wanted to." Yeah, not only could he, he did. It's called "South American". But, "South American" never had a chance, because of what it DIDN'T have - Mike Love and Carl Wilson singing. But, I've been beating that dead horse into the ground...

If "Kokomo" was Brian's song, I guarantee that it would be performed at all of his concerts, probably as an encore, and people would be clapping and singing along...I don't think he dwelled on it, but Kokomo's success bugged Brian. He didn't write it and he didn't sing on it. And he brought up that fact a few times in interviews. Wasn't there a recent post/interview with Brian from 1997 where Brian was talking about checking the charts and worrying about Imagination's position on the charts? He cared.

I don't particularly care for "Kokomo", but there is one thing I love about it, which erikdavid 5000 kind of alluded to. How many times have you listened to the radio over the last 20-30 years, and thought, "This stuff is crap. I can't believe that Brian or The Beach Boys can't get a hit with their songs. It's so much better than the junk that's being played". Well, who would've thought that "Kokomo" would do just that? But it did. And, even though I/we don't consider it one of our favorites, a large amount of Beach Boys' fans do. "Kokomo" was very important at that time; it brought a lot of young fans into the fold. Yeah, it started with "kokomo", but you know it was just a matter of time before they found Pet Sounds and others....

[Smilin Ed H]

"Just imagine that Brian did write/record "Kokomo" for a second, and it went to No. 1. He/we would be ecstatic because he had a hit, even a single that charted! Fans would be saying, "See, Brian still has it. He could knock out these kinds of songs easily if he wanted to." Yeah, not only could he, he did. It's called "South American". But, "South American" never had a chance, because of what it DIDN'T have - Mike Love and Carl Wilson singing. But, I've been beating that dead horse into the ground..."

This isn't even worth addressing again. South American' a bloody awful song.  Might be okay for Jimmy Buffet on his own.


"I don't particularly care for "Kokomo", but there is one thing I love about it, which erikdavid 5000 kind of alluded to. How many times have you listened to the radio over the last 20-30 years, and thought, "This stuff is crap. I can't believe that Brian or The Beach Boys can't get a hit with their songs. It's so much better than the junk that's being played". Well, who would've thought that "Kokomo" would do just that? But it did. And, even though I/we don't consider it one of our favorites, a large amount of Beach Boys' fans do. "Kokomo" was very important at that time; it brought a lot of young fans into the fold. Yeah, it started with "kokomo", but you know it was just a matter of time before they found Pet Sounds and others...."

That, on the other hand, is probably true. And God bless 'em.

[MBE]

Thanks mikeyj.
Re South American.
Sheriff John Stone always has good posts, but I have to respectfully say I see things different from my own standpoint. I happen to truly dislike this song for the same reason I dislike Kokomo. It's just corny, and plastic. I remember my dad went to see Brian with me in 1999. He liked every song except this one. I couldn't help but agree, it just brought down the whole show. I don't care if it was a hit or not, same with Kokomo. I mean if an artist I like gets recognition cool, but it doesn't impact what I think. Maybe some Brianasta's would say "Wow Brian's knocking them out like the old days" but I either like something or I don't. I am not right or wrong for this, taste is subjective. Yet again I can't help but feel let down when I hear something that doesn't seem to be coming from the heart. Even something as lightweight as say Land Ahoy is worthy to me because the fun of it is real. The energy is genuine. At that moment the Beach Boys were feeling the song.

[donald]

Lowest point.  Thats hard to say.  The quality and performances have gone up and down through a few cycles.  I think MIU was the first really low point.  Another  low, not too long after MIU, was Here Comes the Night.  The live band around 81 as someone mentioned, an obese and uninspired Brian and no Carl.   Later in the 80's when they were plkaying two towns in a day.....I felt cheated ...they had to have been phoning it in....

And pretty much every recording after 1985.   One would have trouble culling one good albums worth of material out of the whole lot. 

And Finally, the Al-less, Carl-less, Brian- less Mike and Bruce show.      Of course this isn't the low point of the Beachboys, because    A.   They  sounds pretty good  B. They are not recording new material, and C. They are NOT the Beachboys.

[KokoMoses]

And Finally, the Al-less, Carl-less, Brian- less Mike and Bruce show.      Of course this isn't the low point of the Beachboys, because    A.   They  sounds pretty good  B. They are not recording new material, and C. They are NOT the Beachboys.
[/quote]


Very well put!

[mikeyj]

Sheriff John Stone always has good posts, but I have to respectfully say I see things different from my own standpoint. I happen to truly dislike this song for the same reason I dislike Kokomo. It's just corny, and plastic. I remember my dad went to see Brian with me in 1999. He liked every song except this one. I couldn't help but agree, it just brought down the whole show. I don't care if it was a hit or not, same with Kokomo. I mean if an artist I like gets recognition cool, but it doesn't impact what I think. Maybe some Brianasta's would say "Wow Brian's knocking them out like the old days" but I either like something or I don't. I am not right or wrong for this, taste is subjective. Yet again I can't help but feel let down when I hear something that doesn't seem to be coming from the heart. Even something as lightweight as say Land Ahoy is worthy to me because the fun of it is real. The energy is genuine. At that moment the Beach Boys were feeling the song.

I agree, I always enjoy Sheriff's posts. Even though I don't always agree with him, they are always great in opening up debates.
MBE, as is plainly obvious I totally agree with you on this subject. "It's just corny, and plastic" is exactly right. I listen to music to get enjoyment out of it (and obviously everyone differs in what entertains them) and when I hear something like "Kokomo" I can't really get into it in the way that I can for say I Get Around or Good Vibrations (other huge hits, all #1's of course). As you say, even Land Ahoy is fun because the energy is genuine and that is so true. Obviously it's virtually impossible to prove it but I think some songs are written and/or performed from the heart or are done because the musicians are truly enjoying what they are doing whereas other songs are written/performed just to be hits. And Kokomo is one of those songs in my opinion. Even if it's not the case it certainly feels like it.

I also feel exactly the same way about the recognition that an artist I like gets. If Brian re-records Barbara Ann in a rap style and it goes to #1 then I'd be happy for Brian. Of course I would hate it and never listen to it but if it's going to get people to like Brian and explore what he has done in the past then I think that's a good thing. Though it'd be bad in many other ways in that it might tarnish Brian's reputation etc...

So of course it's good that Kokomo went to #1 in that it perhaps made some people explore the Beach Boys music (as I'm sure there are a few on this board that can say that's the case) but I still don't really like the song. But in the end if a person REALLY likes Kokomo, Barbara Ann, South American, God Only Knows or whatever, then so be it. Whatever makes a person happy is all that really matters as that is the most important thing about music. This world can be pretty cruel to some people but music can lift peoples spirits.

[Swamp Pirate]

First off, I like both Getcha Back and Kokomo.  Good enjoyable pop songs and both got the Beach Boys back on the charts.  

As for South American, the reason it didn't have a chance had nothing to do with whether Mike or Carl sang on it.  The reason South American never had a chance is because Giant never released it as a single, period.  And the reason for that (purely my speculation here) is because Your Imagination didn't perform as well on the charts as they hoped.

In fact, I'll take it a step further and suggest that South American should have been the lead off song in the first place.  Without getting into the ridiculous Mike v. Brian dynamics, South American would have been a nice summer single in the same vein as Kokomo and Getcha Back and probably would have attracted more airplay than Your Imagination did...IMO.  

I'll take it even further and state that if the idea was to get Brian back on the charts, then they should have done an entire record with Buffett in 1998.   Brian's melodies with Buffett's lyrics?  The best of both worlds combined into one.  A Wilson-Buffett collaboration would have been an event.   It would have garnered  more attention and resulted in more airplay and sales...again IMO. 

[Swamp Pirate]

Oh...BB low point.  Queen Mary concert-1981.  Brian hauled in front of a large crowd and TV audience and forced to sing when he was in no condition or shape to do so.  Awful.

[KokoMoses]

I think what Sheriff John Stone is trying to say is that The Beach Boys have a very special vocal blend. Possibly the most special of all-time. Mike, Brian, and Carl's voices in particular are instantly recognizable to the general public as being "The Beach Boys" and when their voices are heard a certain little itch is scratched and it feels good. Latter day Brian just doesn't SOUND that way. Mike still sounds like Mike and Carl had the greatest voice in the world right up until the end. No matter how great Brian's new songs or recordings might be, they simply will not have that THING the Beach Boys had. This isn't a judgement on the quality of Brian's newer material, just the SOUND. With Kokomo, you had a very very catchy, simple song that was unmistakenly The Beach Boys. That was their ace in the hole.

[brianc]

You raise a good question what was the last really good Mike Love material.

"Big Sur."

[brianc]

Just imagine that Brian did write/record "Kokomo" for a second, and it went to No. 1. He/we would be ecstatic because he had a hit, even a single that charted! Fans would be saying, "See, Brian still has it. He could knock out these kinds of songs easily if he wanted to." Yeah, not only could he, he did. It's called "South American". But, "South American" never had a chance, because of what it DIDN'T have - Mike Love and Carl Wilson singing. But, I've been beating that dead horse into the ground...

I'm more inclined to think that "Soul Searchin'," as it was recorded in 1996, was the latter-day Brian Wilson masterpiece that both featured the Beach Boys and had hit single wirtten all over it. If only IT was placed in a hot summer movie with breezy P.R. that didn't come off as fake, it would have been huge.

[brianc]

Brian's voice sounds different, but it still sounds like the Beach Boys. Most people who don't know his solo material still recognize it as being related to the Beach Boys.

Good call on "Land Ahoy"! That song is awesome.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I think what Sheriff John Stone is trying to say is that The Beach Boys have a very special vocal blend. Possibly the most special of all-time. Mike, Brian, and Carl's voices in particular are instantly recognizable to the general public as being "The Beach Boys" and when their voices are heard a certain little itch is scratched and it feels good. Latter day Brian just doesn't SOUND that way. Mike still sounds like Mike and Carl had the greatest voice in the world right up until the end. No matter how great Brian's new songs or recordings might be, they simply will not have that THING the Beach Boys had. This isn't a judgement on the quality of Brian's newer material, just the SOUND. With Kokomo, you had a very very catchy, simple song that was unmistakenly The Beach Boys. That was their ace in the hole.

Yeah, erikdavid5000, that's what I was trying to say (except for the "judgement on the quality of Brian's newer material" part ), but you said it better....

[roll plymouth rock]

If Brian re-records Barbara Ann in a rap style and it goes to #1 then I'd be happy for Brian.

I think you might be onto something here...of course it is modern days, so he probably would have to extend the list of girls he's been with to include more than Peggy Sue and Betty Lou (up in the club, you know what to do)

[adamghost]

Do mean RIGHT before Kokomo Mike was writing craptastic and maybe passable stuff? That I can buy, but if one were to list ALL of Mike's co-writing (and writing credits) with The Beach Boys from 1961 up till 88.... I think we'd have to rate the guy slightly higher than that!

Hey, Kokomo may be silly and not really very deep (at least not as deep as "Johnny Carson") but what exactly makes it so bad? Is it the mere fact that an aging dinosaur rock band had a late career hit without the help of it's main genius writer? The fact that somehow a bunch of no-talent leeches managed to write a catchy song? I mean, admit it, Kokomo IS catchy if nothing else. And there really isn't much else needed for a hit pop song. Throw in Beach Boys harmonies and a Carl lead and what do you really have to hate? Mike, Terry Melcher, and Jon Phillips certainly didn't break any molds as far as vapidity is concerned. So, who cares? It's 1988, most Top 40 pop sucks just as bad or worse and probably still does today.... Even Brian thinks Kokomo is good, and he's the real reason we're all supposed to hate it anyway, so jeez!!!!

Also, like it or not, Kokomo WAS something of an acheivement! How many dinasour bands have had number one singles so late in their career? What was the last Stones number one? Or Who number one? Or so on? If anything, Kokomo just proves that even the silliest and superficial Beach Boys qualities have the ability to grab a hold of even the most mainstream and unhip top 40 audience. I won't defend the horrendous decisions mabe by The Beach Boys after Kokomo hit, but if I were them I'd be rightly proud.

Good heavens, if this is a response to my post, I thought my whole point was that Mike's writing didn't become completely worthless until AFTER "Kokomo."   God knows I'm not a Mike fan but my point being after he had a #1 hit the desire to repeat the achievement poisoned everything he wrote from that moment onward.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I've always been under the impression that the main reason the fans hated "Kokomo" was because it stole the thunder of Brian's first solo album.

[Wirestone]

Honestly, I don't think "Kokomo" sounds like classic BB recordings at all. No falsetto. No thick harmonies. No orchestral (or even Chuck Berry-style) backup. And Mike never sounded that creepy in any 60s hit. And if you don't like the word "creepy," substitute "smooth and soft."

[brianc]

I personally didn't even know Brian had a solo album back in 1988. I saw him on David Letterman, sitting in the chair shaking like a leaf, and looking really uncomfortable. My dad told me that that was Brian Wilson, who wrote all of the Beach Boys' songs. I couldn't believe it. He looked like our family friend, Joel, who was a Beverly Hills guy that got addicted to cocaine and used to come to our house looking downright scary after his wife left him. Joel was this adult guy that was so fun and I looked up to him as a teen. So seeing the Beach Boys guy... he looked cleanly dressed and still handsome, but he looked like he'd seen a ghost. It was rough watching him.

That's just my experience as a teen. Even though it was all laid out for me, I never associated that guy with the group that was playing "Kokomo." The latter just seemed like a fun summer single that was nothing more than that.

In hindsight, now, I still don't quite see the need to compare the two. Brian's 1988 solo album was this incredible production, using '80s synthesizers and drum machines in a simulation that has "Pet Sounds" arrangement technique written all over it. Besides a few cuts that were meant to be "commercial," largely that album is beautiful, lyrically strong, all about love and deep feelings... and optimistic. It's one of those Brian albums that you don't really need a hit from, because, like, thank god it exists.