New US singles box-set

[HeyJude]

FWIW, I just timed the 45 single that I have of California Girls. It's the 5464 and it does list 2:37 as the running time, but it clocked in at 2:42 when I timed it. It was played on a fairly recent turntable so the speed at which it was played isn't a problem.

Hope this helps.

It can sometimes get a bit confusing just timing the stuff out, due to speed variances in some cases when playing vinyl, but also just each person's idea of when the song is over in terms of fade and whatnot. It sounds like the vinyl 45 indeed features a longer fade out. Can you compare when the song completely fades out on the "US Singles Collection" to when it completely fades out on the 45? The longer fade-out I've heard from the Japanese singles collection carries on longer, well past that noticeable drum fill/riff that is barely heard before the shorter version fades out. That's the easiest way just by ear without a stopwatch to tell whether one is listening to the shorter or longer fade.

[HeyJude]

The length on the actual single could be shorter than the length on the single master.

One case that always surprises me is the song Good Vibrations which lasts a couple of seconds longer on the DCC Endless Summer CD than anywhere else (3:42 instead of 3:35). According to Steve Hoffman, he used the single master. What version is used on the US singles box-set?

If the song lasts 3.42, then it's self-evidently NOT the single master as released in 1966. Brian would have mixed the multi-tracks down to a mono master, but the fade is done during the actual mastering process, as I understand. For example, the version of (I think) "Surfin' Safari" on the box set is the 45 master, but it's not faded out.

But the final mixes/masters for songs, whether they are on a master pertaining to singles or albums, usually don't all have completely cold endings as far as I know of. Tracks may well sometimes be faded a bit earlier than what is on the master mix/tape as they are mastered (compare the vinyl "LA (Light Album)" or the Caribou/CBS CD to the 2000 Capitol two-fer for instance to hear longer fadeouts on the 2000 CD that were actually on the album master; but note that they still were faded), but this isn't always left completely up to the person mastering the material. The person doing the mix usually wants to fade it when they choose. They don't do a mix without any fade and just leave a cold, often break-down ending and just let the person mastering it decide when the song should be faded.

There is a bunch of info about the work on the DCC "Endless Summer" and the other Beach Boys DCC material over on the Steve Hoffman message board. There apparently was no criteria on the "Endless Summer" set in terms of preserving the original single versions or anything else. They just chose what they felt were the best versions/mixes (i.e. using the single versions of "Be True To Your School" and "Help Me Rhonda" as opposed to what the original album used), so in the case of "Good Vibrations", I believe they found that the fade on the original tape was longer (but note that it's still faded; I don't think that final mix/master has a cold ending or anything) and used it just to provide fans with a longer version. Note that even though Hoffman has mentioned that the mono single version of "California Girls" is a different mix than the mono album version, he still used the (shorter) mono album version on the DCC disc, presumably because he felt it was the preferable one to use.

[audiodrome]

On the US Singles Collection box set, California Girls fades out right after that "triplet" drum fill (at 2:35), and on the Japanese box set, it fades out at 2:44. An easy way to explain it is that on the "LP" version, there are 6 "rounds" (I wish they all could be California Girls) at the end, and on the "single" version there are 8 "rounds" at the end.

[Bicyclerider]

Hoffman was preparing an expensive "audiophile" release and so was choosing the tapes that sounded the best - as you say no attempt at accuracy in duplicating the original vinyl release or choosing single vs. LP masters was made.

If there's a longer fade on the master and all (except for Steve's) releases of Good Vibrations have the same fade, either the mastering notes clearly state where the fade is to fall, and all engineers have followed that information, OR possibly a dub of the single master was made with the fade in place and that's been used for subsequent releases.  There are sometimes "LP masters" which are already mastered to specification for transfer to vinyl with EQ, fades, etc., that are one generation down from the master tape.  Perhaps there is a similar "single master dub" for Good Vibrations.

The abrupt fade on GV no doubt originated with concerns that the song was too long already, and shaving whatever they could off the fade could only help with shortening it to make it more radio friendly.  But the DCC version with the gradual fade fits the song and likely was Brian's choice for the fade.

[Beach Head]

If there's a longer fade on the master and all (except for Steve's) releases of Good Vibrations have the same fade, either the mastering notes clearly state where the fade is to fall, and all engineers have followed that information, OR possibly a dub of the single master was made with the fade in place and that's been used for subsequent releases.  There are sometimes "LP masters" which are already mastered to specification for transfer to vinyl with EQ, fades, etc., that are one generation down from the master tape.  Perhaps there is a similar "single master dub" for Good Vibrations.

The abrupt fade on GV no doubt originated with concerns that the song was too long already, and shaving whatever they could off the fade could only help with shortening it to make it more radio friendly.  But the DCC version with the gradual fade fits the song and likely was Brian's choice for the fade.

Okay, let's get the mystery of the "long" GV master resolved once and for all.  This is from e-mail correspondence I had with Steve Hoffman almost eight years ago:

I asked him: "How did you get away with that longer 'GV' on ENDLESS SUMMER?"

He responded: "Regarding 'Good Vibrations', I made an edit using one of the BB's CD's that had the instrumental tracks from G.V.  I just spliced on the longer fadeout. I always thought that the thing faded out too soon.  Just my little jolly....."

Mystery solved.

[Andreas]

Okay, let's get the mystery of the "long" GV master resolved once and for all.  This is from e-mail correspondence I had with Steve Hoffman almost eight years ago:

I asked him: "How did you get away with that longer 'GV' on ENDLESS SUMMER?"

He responded: "Regarding 'Good Vibrations', I made an edit using one of the BB's CD's that had the instrumental tracks from G.V.  I just spliced on the longer fadeout. I always thought that the thing faded out too soon.  Just my little jolly....."

Mystery solved.

Very interesting. I will have to check if the ending synchs with the instrumental track on the GV box set.

[Andrew G. Doe]

If there's a longer fade on the master and all (except for Steve's) releases of Good Vibrations have the same fade, either the mastering notes clearly state where the fade is to fall, and all engineers have followed that information, OR possibly a dub of the single master was made with the fade in place and that's been used for subsequent releases.  There are sometimes "LP masters" which are already mastered to specification for transfer to vinyl with EQ, fades, etc., that are one generation down from the master tape.  Perhaps there is a similar "single master dub" for Good Vibrations.

The abrupt fade on GV no doubt originated with concerns that the song was too long already, and shaving whatever they could off the fade could only help with shortening it to make it more radio friendly.  But the DCC version with the gradual fade fits the song and likely was Brian's choice for the fade.

Okay, let's get the mystery of the "long" GV master resolved once and for all.  This is from e-mail correspondence I had with Steve Hoffman almost eight years ago:

I asked him: "How did you get away with that longer 'GV' on ENDLESS SUMMER?"

He responded: "Regarding 'Good Vibrations', I made an edit using one of the BB's CD's that had the instrumental tracks from G.V.  I just spliced on the longer fadeout. I always thought that the thing faded out too soon.  Just my little jolly....."

Mystery solved.

Indeed... and not Brian's fade after all.

[audiodrome]

Talk about playing God!

[Bicyclerider]

That sounds so UNLIKE Steve, the "purist."  But that does explain it, and why every other version is the single/short fade version.

[Andreas]

That sounds so UNLIKE Steve, the "purist." 

On the other hand, Steve remixed the song All Summer Long.

[Andrew G. Doe]

That sounds so UNLIKE Steve, the "purist." 

On the other hand, Steve remixed the song All Summer Long.

Huh ?  Thought that was Mark ?

[Bicyclerider]

Steve remixed it for the DCC Endless summer CD.

[KokoMoses]

On a related topic, who did the mastering for all the BB stuff in the Sixties? As Dr Tim says, mastering (the so-called 'dark art') can utterly change the overall sound of a song (I've often wondered about the 'boxey' sound of some mid-period Beatles and wondered why this wasn't corrected at the mastering stage, but I guess tastes were different 40 years ago).

Any ideas? In all the books on BW's fab production skills the mastering is virtually never mentioned, which I find strange. Maybe they weren't mastered at all? Some of them certainly sound that way (Wild Honey and Smiley Smile, for instance, as discussed in the WH thread started by Baker Man).

I've always assumed that boxy Beatles sound was mainly because of Ringo putting towles over his drums. That'll do it!

[Bicyclerider]

I thought Chuck Britz, then Jim Lockhart (with Smiley Smile and Wild Honey) and Stephen Desper did the mastering in the 60's.  In terms of the master mix down tapes.  Presumably Capitol staff engineers mastered (Eq'd and compressed) the vinyl from the master tapes.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I thought Chuck Britz, then Jim Lockhart (with Smiley Smile and Wild Honey) and Stephen Desper did the mastering in the 60's.  In terms of the master mix down tapes.  Presumably Capitol staff engineers mastered (Eq'd and compressed) the vinyl from the master tapes.

Nope - mastering is a separate discipline. Those guys were studio engineers, not mastering engineers. I don't know who mastered Pet Sounds but Fred Vail would have said if it was Chuck... and he didn't.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Well, it's kind of a vague distinction...  Technically, "mastering" is short for "pre-mastering."  The Master is of course the sire whence all copies of a commercial record come.  So physically, mastering is the process of creating that final master.

"Mastering" in the artistic rather than the physical sense, that is pre-mastering, is just the art of producing to "tape" what the artist wants the public to hear.  So from that, the discipline has changed since Brian's day.  A mastering engineer at Capitol in 1966 would have been closer to a lab technician than an audiophile, and his duties more practical.  Getting the right EQ curve and volume so the stylus didn't jump &c. would have been the concerns, whereas now mastering engineers will do radical, artistic EQ, (rather than eq choices based on technical limitations of playback technology) multi-band compression, limiting, stereo-widening, etc, etc.

So in some ways, Chuck, Jimmy, Steve, et al were doing some things that might fall under the mastering umbrella today.  There are still guys out there like Dave Fridmann who records, mixes, and masters all in his own studio.

But more normal is for there to be separate recording/mixing and mastering engineers, if not three separate engineers for a whole project.  There are guys who do nothing but mastering like Vlado Meller, Brian Gardner, Bernie Grundman, Alan Douches, John Vestman, etc, etc, etc.

[Bicyclerider]

So then does anyone know who were the mastering engineers at Capitol in the 60's?

[Bean Bag]

So, what's the consensus on this box set?  Everybody get it?  Some people, no people?  Stupid marketing afterthought?

To me -- and this is just my practical side speaking -- it would have made more sense to fit all these onto 3 or 4 CDs.  Include, not a stupid picture book of crap we've all seen before with annoying, just out of college, graphic designer fuss -- but rather a hefty book with full size, full color scans - front and back of the 45 artwork.  Also all the details and essays on the music -- including how things charted or didn't, the musicians used, and photos of the damn sessions.

That should have been priced sub-$50.  This thing, north of 100 clams, can't be selling.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

It agree it is prohibitively expensive.  I can't really complain since I don't do anything to earn money, but something 75-99.99 would have been a little "better."

Still, if I had any money at all, it would go toward this.  I don't really care about the format or anything.  Sure, I'd sacrifice my life for better "un-seener" photos in the booklet, but at this point I've stopped being a Beach Boys fan and am just a junkie.  I need a fix at whatever cost, and without new stuff, I tend to lay about in a delirious, crazed state, mostly in dark rooms.  If nothing else, it would be nice to have my lifeblood, the new remixes, in the CD quality format rather than lossy mp3.

[Bean Bag]

 

Me too!  I'm a pathetic, soulless, steal-from-my-own-mama, junkie.  I guess I wouldn't be axing about the box, that I clearly understand is raping us shameless junkies, if I didn't need a fix too.  And damn it if it ain't still July.  I'm at my weakest in July for this nonsense.

Damn.