a SMiLE question or 3

[XY]

The interesting thing about this session is that it PREDATES Van Dyke's involvement, if you believe Brian and Van Dyke who date their meeting at Terry Melcher's when they decided to collaborate as July 1966.  So Brian did indeed have the title of the song, presumably the verse sections, and then a My Only Sunshine fade.  Which means he was already writing and thinking in "sections" that could be interchangeable with other songs in May 66, before Good Vibrations was close to being finished.

Yes, Van Dyke stated that Brian was already working on H&V when they started writing together. But Brian came up with the melody for the verse while working with Parks, he explained it in the 'Beautiful Dreamer' docu, that he thought Van Dyke was in control of his hands. So the verse as we know it was probably not part of the May version.

[Bicyclerider]

But Van Dyke said that Brian played him the verse melody, he asked him to play it again and he came up immediately with  "I've been in this town so long . . . "  which to me means the melody was already in place when they collaborated.  Unless you're saying when they got together, inspiration struck Brian and he invented and played the melody to Van Dyke at the same time . . . a bit of a stretch I think.  Van Dyke has said that Brian came up with the music, then he would do the lyrics, and the music was all Brian's - although I suspect Van Dyke had more input on the music than he lets on.

[Aegir]

I think I remember reading somewhere that Heroes and Villains was in part based on vocal exercises Brian, Carl and Dennis would do when they were in the car together when they were younger.

[XY]

But Van Dyke said that Brian played him the verse melody, he asked him to play it again and he came up immediately with  "I've been in this town so long . . . "  which to me means the melody was already in place when they collaborated.  Unless you're saying when they got together, inspiration struck Brian and he invented and played the melody to Van Dyke at the same time . . . a bit of a stretch I think.  Van Dyke has said that Brian came up with the music, then he would do the lyrics, and the music was all Brian's - although I suspect Van Dyke had more input on the music than he lets on.

It's been a while since I last watched the 'Beautiful Dreamer' DVD. I checked it out again yesterday and yes, I mixed a few things up and it's possible that Brian already had the verse melody. I too think that Parks cowrote some of the music.

[c-man]

But Van Dyke said that Brian played him the verse melody, he asked him to play it again and he came up immediately with  "I've been in this town so long . . . "  which to me means the melody was already in place when they collaborated.  Unless you're saying when they got together, inspiration struck Brian and he invented and played the melody to Van Dyke at the same time . . . a bit of a stretch I think.  Van Dyke has said that Brian came up with the music, then he would do the lyrics, and the music was all Brian's - although I suspect Van Dyke had more input on the music than he lets on.

It's been a while since I last watched the 'Beautiful Dreamer' DVD. I checked it out again yesterday and yes, I mixed a few things up and it's possible that Brian already had the verse melody. I too think that Parks cowrote some of the music.

Van Dyke has always categorically denied that he wrote any of the SMiLE music.  He has said, more than once, that he was in the employment of Brian Wilson, and his job was to write lyrics.  That's how he saw it and that's how he approached it. 

[brianc]

He has claimed to have made arrangement suggestions.

[Chris Brown]

He has claimed to have made arrangement suggestions.

That could be true, I know he suggested the cello triplets in "Good Vibrations".

[c-man]

He has claimed to have made arrangement suggestions.

Any quotes you can provide? 

[c-man]

He has claimed to have made arrangement suggestions.

That could be true, I know he suggested the cello triplets in "Good Vibrations".

He SAYS he suggested the cello triplets in "Good Vibrations"...but so did Carl. 

[brianc]

What did Carl say?

[John]

He has claimed to have made arrangement suggestions.

He has claimed he wrote lyrics for "Pet Sounds", too, though.

[c-man]

What did Carl say?

"...at the last take Brian said, 'I want to put another instrument on the low end, what can I use?'  I blurted out 'cello', and that was the word that wanted to be said."

[Alex]

What did Carl say?

"...at the last take Brian said, 'I want to put another instrument on the low end, what can I use?'  I blurted out 'cello', and that was the word that wanted to be said."

Maybe Carl said "cello", but not mentioning specifically the cello triplets, and then maybe VDP said "have the cello play triplets". 

Just speculating on how it may have went down. This situation would make both stories true.

[bossaroo]

interesting stuff...!


back to SMiLE:

i'm wondering how much of "Can't Wait Too Long" dates back to SMiLE.
i'm pretty sure the instrumental bit at the end with bass, drums and organ was SMiLE-era, but how about the verses, etc?

that ending is heard on the 2-fer version but not on the boxset for some reason... it's great.

i also think it's a real shame that the H&V fade (aka false Barnyard) was left off BWPS.

[Wrightfan]

interesting stuff...!


back to SMiLE:

i'm wondering how much of "Can't Wait Too Long" dates back to SMiLE.
i'm pretty sure the instrumental bit at the end with bass, drums and organ was SMiLE-era, but how about the verses, etc?

that ending is heard on the 2-fer version but not on the boxset for some reason... it's great.

i also think it's a real shame that the H&V fade (aka false Barnyard) was left off BWPS.

I thought CWTL started after SMiLE?

I too though, love that ending. Wonder why the GV set left it off?

[Sheriff John Stone]

interesting stuff...!


back to SMiLE:

i'm wondering how much of "Can't Wait Too Long" dates back to SMiLE.
i'm pretty sure the instrumental bit at the end with bass, drums and organ was SMiLE-era, but how about the verses, etc?

that ending is heard on the 2-fer version but not on the boxset for some reason... it's great.

i also think it's a real shame that the H&V fade (aka false Barnyard) was left off BWPS.

I thought CWTL started after SMiLE?

I too though, love that ending. Wonder why the GV set left it off?

I raised the question about "Can't Wait Too Long" in the past ('cause I wasn't sure whether or not to put it on a SMiLE mix), and I could get no concrete evidence that it started during the 1966-67 SMiLE sessions. I still occasionally put that a capella CWTL snippet from the Hawthorne CD on a mix. I like it somewhere around "Wind Chimes", or right before "Surf's Up". One time I used it as an intro to "Heroes And Villains"

Regarding the long version of CWTL being left off the boxed set, I always thought they were trying to give us something new (the alternate, shorter mix), figuring most who bought the box already had the 2-fer with the long version. No?

[Jason]

Regarding CWTL, don't you wish we had a good version of the a cappella bit on the WAYYYYYYY old Smile boots? That part's so cool.

[Wrightfan]

Regarding CWTL, don't you wish we had a good version of the a cappella bit on the WAYYYYYYY old Smile boots? That part's so cool.

Are you talking about the piece where they're doing a blues scat or the group vox of "Miss you darlin?"

[Jason]

The blues scat bit. Although the other mentioned bit is also cool, we have it in pretty good quality.

[Wrightfan]

The blues scat bit. Although the other mentioned bit is also cool, we have it in pretty good quality.

Ok, that's what I thought.

Yeah I'd like to hear that in good quality as well

[sockittome]

Is there any basis for the speculation that CWTL was originally connected to Wind Chimes somehow, other than the similarity of the chord structure?

[buddhahat]

Is there any basis for the speculation that CWTL was originally connected to Wind Chimes somehow, other than the similarity of the chord structure?

I think most people associate the two because CWTL has the same riff as Wind Chimes - it's an identical riff and so it's logical to presume that CWTL grew out of Wind Chimes.

There's a great version that starts with a beautiful accapella intro and I always thought this intro was from the smile sessions, but everyone I've ever asked says that the earliest CWTL sessions are from Wild Honey. It's not inconceivable that he had started sketching it out during Smile though, but there's no evidence to support that as far as I'm aware.

[Mr. Cohen]

I think CWTL is definitely Wild Honey era. The genius didn't die with Smile.

[Zack]

I think CWTL is definitely Wild Honey era. The genius didn't die with Smile.

That's postin'.