Unreleased Sunflower Outtakes

[c-man]

Surf's Up, nah. I really like the Bruce-vibe Surf's Up has. If he had replaced Bruce after he left, and we'd had Brian, Carl, Dennis, Mike, Al, Billy, Ricky, and Blondie, that would've been sweet. But Billy was already in the band anyway kinda. Does anyone know if he contriubted anything in the studio (like Ed Carter) or was he strictly a road-only guy?

Billy is on the musican contract for some of the "So Tough" tunes:  Mess Of Help, Here She Comes, and He Come Down to be precise.  And to me, it sounds like his voice singing one of the parts on Radio King-Dom. 

[TimeToGetAlone]

I guess What Can The Matter Be is pretty unknown to this community (or any place I've come across) in general then.  I don't know how much of a recording even exists of it but I'm a little curious now I must say.

[doc smiley]

here's a wild guess

"What can the matter be"  could this be the old nursery rhyme?
would flow  into "Carnival" rather nicely...

hey!   anythings possible??...   

Oh Dear What Can the Matter Be

Dear, dear, what can the matter be?(3x)
Johnny's so long at the fair.

He promised he'd buy me a basket of posies,
A garland of lilies a wreath of red roses,
He promised he'd bring me a bunch of blue ribbons,
To tie up my bonnie brown hair.

And it's oh, dear, what can the matter be?
Dear, dear, what can the matter be,
Oh dear, what can the matter be?
Johnny's so long at the fair.

He promised he'd buy me a beautiful fairing,
A gay bit of lace that the lassies are wearing,
A little straw hat to set off the blue ribbons
That tie up my bonnie brown hair.

(repeat chorus)

[TimeToGetAlone]

Interesting.  I had never heard of that nursey rhyme before.  Brian was never opposed to using traditional stuff so that's an interesting thought.  Since the recording of it is documented enough to know it exists, I wonder whether it's still hidden in the vaults.

[John]

It has a bit of a rock pedigree already, since there's a theory that it may have been the starting point for The Beatles' "Baby's In Black"...

[brianc]

Actually to me Brian sounds great on it. I think it was cut in 1971 along with Silly Walls.

I think he sounds great too.

[adamghost]

Could it be that, rather than flowing into "Carnival," "What Can The Matter Be" actually IS "Carnival"?  E.g., using the nursery rhyme as words to the "Carnival" instrumental tracks.  It would fit.

[TimeToGetAlone]

Could it be that, rather than flowing into "Carnival," "What Can The Matter Be" actually IS "Carnival"?  E.g., using the nursery rhyme as words to the "Carnival" instrumental tracks.  It would fit.

Interesting.  It's possible in the same way if The Little Girl I Once Knew and Carol K were never heard.  We wouldn't know it's just the evolution from the instrumental to the vocals/lyrics.

[Alan Boyd]

I don't think that "Carnival" is "What Can The Matter Be" (which is something I've never heard or heard of, even after going through most of the original Sunflower-era tapes). 

"Carnival" is based on an old standard, "Over the Waves," a waltz from the late 1800s composed by Juventino Rosas.  It was a common musical staple for carousels, calliopes, and carnivals.

The words came later - added for a movie in the 1950s:

"When you're in love,
it's the loveliest time of the year
Stars twinkle above
you can almost touch them from here
Words fall into rhyme
anytime he is holding you near
When you are in love
it's the loveliest time of the year"

The unedited Beach Boys version runs about 2:45.... no lyrics, though.  Just more of the same, kinda building in intensity as it goes along.  Seems to have been a sonic experiment, according to Steve Desper.  This is certainly one for the Spatializer.

As for "What Can The matter Be," I have no clue...

Alan

[Andrew G. Doe]

"What Can The Matter Be ?" is what it says on the AFM documentation. It could, of course, be a title we already know in disguise.

[Alan Boyd]

What's the date listed on "What Can The Matter Be"?

[Alan Boyd]

Never mind - I went and looked it up on the handy "Gigs and Session" page for 1969.  Nice resource, indeed!

Feb 1969.... same session as "Celebrate The News."

Hmmm.  That 8 track reel (which we haven't yet pulled) has two leadered takes on it, but they might be the first and second generation masters of "Celebrate The News."

Hmmmm....

[doc smiley]

Sounds like Alan is about to play detective...


some days I wish I was you Alan

 

Doc Smiley

[TimeToGetAlone]

Haha, it would be neat to have resources like that to go by.  Is "Where I She?" as much of a mystery as WCtMB?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Never mind - I went and looked it up on the handy "Gigs and Session" page for 1969.  Nice resource, indeed!

Feb 1969.... same session as "Celebrate The News."

Hmmm.  That 8 track reel (which we haven't yet pulled) has two leadered takes on it, but they might be the first and second generation masters of "Celebrate The News."

Hmmmm....

There's also a session on May 24 1969... um, I think I might have made a typo for Feb 24, but there's definitely an AFM sheet for 5/24/69

[Andrew G. Doe]

Haha, it would be neat to have resources like that to go by.  Is "Where I She?" as much of a mystery as WCtMB?

Nope - the version i heard sounded like a roughly edited demo, Brian solo. I understand there's a more realised version as well.

[c-man]

Never mind - I went and looked it up on the handy "Gigs and Session" page for 1969.  Nice resource, indeed!

Feb 1969.... same session as "Celebrate The News."

Hmmm.  That 8 track reel (which we haven't yet pulled) has two leadered takes on it, but they might be the first and second generation masters of "Celebrate The News."

Hmmmm....

There's also a session on May 24 1969... um, I think I might have made a typo for Feb 24, but there's definitely an AFM sheet for 5/24/69

AFM sheets in my archives include:

Celebrate The News - Sunset Sound 2/24/69 (two sessions that day)
Celebrate The News - Sunset Sound 2/25/69
Celebrate The News - Sunset Sound 3/3/69
What Can The Matter Be - Valentine Recorders, 5/24/69

Musicians on this last session were Carl Wilson, Dennis Wilson, Alan Jardine, Bruce Johnston, Mike Love, Roger Neumann (a woodwind player), and contractor Jon Parks.  The absence of Brian MAY indicate that this was a song written & produced by one of the other Beach Boys...although Brian's absence from the AFM sheet does not guarantee his absence from the session, as other AFM sheets & session tapes prove...

[TimeToGetAlone]

Haha, it would be neat to have resources like that to go by.  Is "Where I She?" as much of a mystery as WCtMB?

Nope - the version i heard sounded like a roughly edited demo, Brian solo. I understand there's a more realised version as well.

Cool.  I always tend to like Brian's demos.

Never mind - I went and looked it up on the handy "Gigs and Session" page for 1969.  Nice resource, indeed!

Feb 1969.... same session as "Celebrate The News."

Hmmm.  That 8 track reel (which we haven't yet pulled) has two leadered takes on it, but they might be the first and second generation masters of "Celebrate The News."

Hmmmm....

There's also a session on May 24 1969... um, I think I might have made a typo for Feb 24, but there's definitely an AFM sheet for 5/24/69

AFM sheets in my archives include:

Celebrate The News - Sunset Sound 2/24/69 (two sessions that day)
Celebrate The News - Sunset Sound 2/25/69
Celebrate The News - Sunset Sound 3/3/69
What Can The Matter Be - Valentine Recorders, 5/24/69

Musicians on this last session were Carl Wilson, Dennis Wilson, Alan Jardine, Bruce Johnston, Mike Love, Roger Neumann (a woodwind player), and contractor Jon Parks.  The absence of Brian MAY indicate that this was a song written & produced by one of the other Beach Boys...although Brian's absence from the AFM sheet does not guarantee his absence from the session, as other AFM sheets & session tapes prove...

Wouldn't surprise me if it was Dennis.  He seemed the most enthusiastic about recording in early '69.