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Joke Of The Day
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Topic: Joke Of The Day (Read 6952 times)
Surfer Joe
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Joke Of The Day
«
on:
May 10, 2008, 02:42:22 PM »
Please trust me when I say that I know how utterly stupid lists ranking works of art in numerical order are. They inevitably show up the stupidity and subjectivity and lack of cohesive standards of the compiler or compilers.
But out of sheer, brain-bending boredom- the next option was to stand next to the parakeets' cage and say "Pretty bird! Pretty bird!" for twenty minutes or so, which they don't get a whole lot out of, either- I was reading the Rolling Stone 500 greatest albums list, looking for something really good that I didn't have, or something, when this jumped out and bit me:
254.
Whitney Houston
, Whitney Houston
255.
The Kinks Are the Village Green Preservation Society
, The Kinks
Fifteen spaces later,
The Beach Boys Today!
finally shows up- the first Beach Boys appearance on the chart since the number two spot with
Pet Sounds
, and only thirty-three spots behind McDonna's
Like A Prayer
album.
How do they sleep?
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Fun Is In
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #1 on:
May 10, 2008, 02:50:50 PM »
How do they sleep?
BLISSFULLY.
ignorance is bliss
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dogear
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #2 on:
May 10, 2008, 03:27:47 PM »
I hope "Muswell Hillbillies" fared better
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Surfer Joe
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #3 on:
May 10, 2008, 06:20:14 PM »
Oh, heck no. It's not as good as Whitney Houston or McDonna, either. I'm pretty sure spot number 255 was the Kinks' first appearance on that list, but glad to know there's another
Muswell Hillbillies
supporter out there- personally I like it a little better than
Arthur
or
Lola Vs.
...
In the insane non-logic of those things, though, it's fun to think that there are only 33 albums on Earth that are better than
The Beach Boys Today!
but not as good as McDonna's
Like A Prayer
. Or that there are about a hundred or so albums better than
The Complete Hank Williams
but not as good as
Straight Outta Compton
. I must be a pretty astute listener, because I distinctly remember hearing
Straight Outta Compton
way back in art school and casually remarking- "Say, that's a lot better than Hank Williams' whole career. Good job, guys." Guess those guys who didn't agree back then feel silly now that the list is out.
All that aside, though, their top ten or so are not silly at all, with
Pepper
and
Pet Sounds
as the top two, pretty consist choices on lists like that- I'd be pretty close to the same list. I guess it's easier for some strange reason to choose the ten greatest than numbers 201-300.
«
Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 06:23:36 PM by Surfer Joe
»
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the captain
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #4 on:
May 10, 2008, 06:39:09 PM »
It's funny that this thread begins with something like "I know these lists don't matter," etc., and yet it goes on to take issue with the choices. Make your list: while I don't know your taste, I'm certain I'd mock it. And you could do the same to mine. Are we all so desperate to have our own taste reaffirmed?
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Aegir
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #5 on:
May 10, 2008, 10:07:45 PM »
Rolling Stone, in trying not to piss anyone off, made a list that would piss
everyone
off. Thus three being three Eminem albums on the list and all of them placing higher than Sunflower.
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Quote from: runnersdialzero on April 05, 2012, 06:08:41 PM
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Surfer Joe
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #6 on:
May 11, 2008, 12:37:25 AM »
Quote from: Luther on May 10, 2008, 06:39:09 PM
It's funny that this thread begins with something like "I know these lists don't matter," etc., and yet it goes on to take issue with the choices. Make your list: while I don't know your taste, I'm certain I'd mock it. And you could do the same to mine. Are we all so desperate to have our own taste reaffirmed?
Not really funny...I know what you're saying, but a better synopsis of what I was saying would be: I know these lists are silly, but gosh, look
how really
silly this is...
They list hits compilations and box sets, so that an album like
Thriller
is rated 33 places ahead of Ray Charles'
entire Atlantic Records catalog
, i.e. his work from 1952-1959. The anarchic, garage-y semi-competence of
Never mind the bollocks here's the Sex Pistols
is eight places "greater" than the consummate, on-fire musicianship of the Allman Brothers Band
At Fillmore East
. (How can those two possibly share a category?) Phil Spector's
A Christmas Gift For You
comes in at 142, trailing The Notorious B.I.G.'s
Ready To Die
(which he did) at 133, but both are way behind number 64, Spector's
Back To Mono
, which contains number 142
A Christmas Gift For You
. And as far as I saw- the first 300- the
Good Vibrations
box set is
not listed
(nor is
Sunflower
,
Friends
,
All Summer Long
,
Pacific Ocean Blue
,
Endless Summer
,
Summer In Paradise
, etc.
Most of the selections are excellent, especially within the first hundred, but when you start looking closely it gets curiouser and curiouser.
Please rank and number the following items:
Brussel Sprouts
Yellow
Hot Dogs
Oil Filters
Julie Newmar
Keys
The White-breasted Nuthatch
Poetry
That's my point.
Incidentally, I wasn't looking at the list for validation of my utterly exquisite taste, which you all could benefit from emulating, but for ideas- I was in the mood to buy a few albums. Sirs and Madams,
I did so.
«
Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 12:40:59 AM by Surfer Joe
»
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phirnis
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #7 on:
May 11, 2008, 01:56:16 AM »
I'd always prefer a number of
individual
top ten lists reflecting personal favorites over one single oh-so-carefully thought-out top 300 of the "greatest" records ever.
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Jonas
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I've got the Beach Boys, my friends got the Stones
Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #8 on:
May 11, 2008, 02:38:45 AM »
@ rolling stone...
come on now.
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Surfer Joe
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #9 on:
May 11, 2008, 03:52:19 AM »
Quote from: phirnis on May 11, 2008, 01:56:16 AM
I'd always prefer a number of
individual
top ten lists reflecting personal favorites over one single oh-so-carefully thought-out top 300 of the "greatest" records ever.
Agree completely- it's the ambition of it all- throwing Hank Williams and Miles Davis and Notorious B.I.G. and the Sex Pistols and Frank Sinatra onto the same list- that ends up making it so laughable.
Quote from: The REAL Real Beach Boy on May 11, 2008, 02:38:45 AM
@ rolling stone...
come on now.
Agree with this, too. The magazine that was giving
Sgt. Pepper
and
Pet Sounds
- their numbers one and two- four stars out of five in the seventies and eighties guide books, but giving five stars to
The Beatles' Second Album
and
All Summer Long
, neither of which (I think) they currently rank...
I'll never forget their analysis of the genius of "Don't Worry, Baby"...you know why it's a great song? Because the car is a
sexual metaphor
. Now you can impress your friends.
The hypocrisy, the smugness, the biases...removing those from
Rolling Stone
would be like removing the staples.
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the captain
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #10 on:
May 11, 2008, 06:51:46 AM »
I agree that personal lists make more sense. To pretend there is such a thing possible as an objective "greatest" list is ridiculous. Surfer Joe complained about Allman Bros. being too low on the list, for example; but there's no way in hell I'd put any Allman Bros. on a list, ever. I despise them despite their talent. On the other hand, my top 500 would definitely include some NWA, which earlier was complained about. It would also without question include another half-dozen or so hip hop albums I think are brilliant. (Although not the Biggie or Eminem mentioned earlier.) This thread ought to be moved to General Music Discussions, by the way.
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Surfer Joe
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #11 on:
May 11, 2008, 11:33:07 AM »
I'm not seeing the "complaints" you're talking about. I used the proximity of the Allman Brothers Band to the Sex Pistols on a list to make the point that they are not only not remotely comparable, but actually sort of opposite (except in that both bands were revolutionary and influential). And yet there they are with Frank Sinatra and Miles Davis. And there an NWA album is with Hank Williams' whole career, compiled on ten CDs. Is
Straight Outta Compton
(which I don't dislike, by the way- haven't heard it in years and years) better or worse than say, a live radio performance of "I Can't Help It If I'm Still In Love With You"...? Or Hank's conversation with Minnie Pearl?
Maybe that makes the point clearly.
Can't imagine how anyone who's heard
At Fillmore East
could "despise" the enormous talents of the Allman Brothers Band...hilarious to me. Incidentally, Duane and Gregg Allman made their first significant appearance on a stage warming up for the Beach Boys in Florida in 1965. Later I think the two bands connected once or twice at the Fillmore East or West...
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the captain
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #12 on:
May 11, 2008, 11:35:02 AM »
Quote from: Surfer Joe on May 11, 2008, 11:33:07 AM
Can't imagine how anyone who's heard
At Fillmore East
could "despise" the enormous talents of the Allman Brothers Band...hilarious to me. Incidentally, Duane and Gregg Allman made their first significant appearance on a stage warming up for the Beach Boys in Florida in 1965. Later I think the two bands connected once or twice at the Fillmore East or West...
Glad I can amuse you. But I didn't question their talents, either. I just can't stomach listening to them (no matter who they opened for in 1965).
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No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
shelter
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #13 on:
May 11, 2008, 12:10:05 PM »
Quote from: Surfer Joe on May 11, 2008, 12:37:25 AM
The anarchic, garage-y semi-competence of
Never mind the bollocks here's the Sex Pistols
is eight places "greater" than the consummate, on-fire musicianship of the Allman Brothers Band
At Fillmore East
.
I've never really been a huge Pistols fan, but I think that album deserves a high ranking on any list of important albums. First reason: they made rock & roll a threat again. In a way, they took rock music back to where it was when Bill Haley and Elvis stepped into the spotlights. They made it something dangerous and shocking again. Second reason: many people like to believe that the Pistols were just a bunch of punks who couldn't really play, but I disagree with that. Sure any musician could easily play the notes, but I don't think that many people could do it with the same drive and attitude as the Pistols. They rocked.
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Surfer Joe
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #14 on:
May 11, 2008, 12:14:03 PM »
Quote from: Luther on May 11, 2008, 11:35:02 AM
glad I can amuse you. But I didn't question their talents, either. I just can't stomach listening to them (no matter who they opened for in 1965).
Quoth H. Munster: Darn! Darn! Darn!
The reason I posted here, by the way, is that my secondary point was the low showing of the Beach Boys. Aside from the non-validity of lists like that, in my view, the Beach Boys- who get a lot of critical respect in general- outside of
Pet Sounds
they don't get much recognition as an album band. They're treated as a singles act, which isn't accurate when you listen to albums as distinct as
Sunflower
or
Friends
or
Smiley Smile
or
Today
. To me they kind of compare to the Kinks in this regard- albums seemed to reflect a total change in mood more than overall direction or growth (like the Beatles). Maybe that's getting too esoteric...but it remains that outside of their specific fan base they only really seemed to score big time, for the ages, at album length just the once. I think that's hurt their overall stature just a little, just like it's hurt CCR's.
I wish Capitol had had the vision to keep
Endless Summer
in print and treat it as the classic album it is, rather than keep the repackaging in constant change for economic purposes. The album belongs in the public consciousness for good, and would have made a nice companion to
Pet Sounds
when people do start thinking about lists.
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Surfer Joe
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #15 on:
May 11, 2008, 12:16:01 PM »
Quote from: shelter on May 11, 2008, 12:10:05 PM
I've never really been a huge Pistols fan, but I think that album deserves a high ranking on any list of important albums.
Agree. The album is sitting right here by my desk...(one of about a hundred). Not a huge fan either, but I do get it.
Quote from: shelter on May 11, 2008, 12:10:05 PM
...many people like to believe that the Pistols were just a bunch of punks who couldn't really play, but I disagree with that. Sure any musician could easily play the notes, but I don't think that many people could do it with the same drive and attitude as the Pistols. They rocked.
That's interesting. They do have that image...maybe they fostered it a little themselves.
«
Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 12:18:18 PM by Surfer Joe
»
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Alex
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #16 on:
May 11, 2008, 12:29:39 PM »
Quote from: Surfer Joe on May 11, 2008, 12:37:25 AM
Please rank and number the following items:
Brussel Sprouts
Yellow
Hot Dogs
Oil Filters
Julie Newmar
Keys
The White-breasted Nuthatch
Poetry
I would put Julie Newmar at #1 (purrrrrrrfect as Catwoman) and Brussels Sprouts in last place...but that's just my own personal taste.
Lists, especially ones in music magazines, are so subjective and a lot of times pretty much don't make sense. Rolling Stone, Pitchfork (technically a website), Blender, and Spin have all pissed me off with their stupid lists and such. But I still enjoy reading them just out of curiosity to see how my bands, especially the BBs, fare on the pointless lists.
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Aegir
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #17 on:
May 11, 2008, 02:57:15 PM »
For what it's worth, Sunflower
is
on that list.
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Quote from: runnersdialzero on April 05, 2012, 06:08:41 PM
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Surfer Joe
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #18 on:
May 11, 2008, 07:23:32 PM »
You're right- I hadn't read past 300.
2.
Pet Sounds
270.
The Beach Boys Today!
380.
Sunflower
Not as good as
(What's The Story) Morning Glory?
by Oasis (376),
CrazySexyCool
by TLC (377), or Roxy Music's
Siren
(371), but better than
A Quick One (Happy Jack)
(383),
A Hard Day's Night
(388), or Roxy Music's
Country Life
(387). Maybe if they had substituted "Walkin" for "Tears In The Morning" it would have been better than the TLC album.
Quote from: ascrodin on May 11, 2008, 12:29:39 PM
I would put Julie Newmar at #1 (purrrrrrrfect as Catwoman) and Brussels Sprouts in last place...but that's just my own personal taste.
And your personal taste would be inarguably correct, sir. Julie Newmar would come in just ahead of
Sergeant Pepper
.
Brussel sprouts would tie with
Summer In Paradise
.
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Roger Ryan
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #19 on:
May 12, 2008, 07:18:27 AM »
Quote from: Surfer Joe on May 11, 2008, 12:16:01 PM
Quote from: shelter on May 11, 2008, 12:10:05 PM
I've never really been a huge Pistols fan, but I think that album deserves a high ranking on any list of important albums.
Agree. The album is sitting right here by my desk...(one of about a hundred). Not a huge fan either, but I do get it.
Quote from: shelter on May 11, 2008, 12:10:05 PM
...many people like to believe that the Pistols were just a bunch of punks who couldn't really play, but I disagree with that. Sure any musician could easily play the notes, but I don't think that many people could do it with the same drive and attitude as the Pistols. They rocked.
That's interesting. They do have that image...maybe they fostered it a little themselves.
When watching "The Making of 'Never Mind The Bollocks...' documentary, I was amazed when Chris Thomas pointed out that "Anarchy In The U.K." had about six guitar overdubs on it. I had honestly never thought of that kind of attention to detail going into this seminal punk album, but given that Chris Thomas had made his name working with Roxy Music, it makes perfect sense.
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donald
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #20 on:
May 14, 2008, 06:08:33 AM »
any entity that would count an antisocial misogynist wannabe such as enema em as worthy of being on a list of any kind other than on a list of those to be executed is not an entiy of any worth...
and if the entity is going to "count" record company hyped white substitutes for black artists then Pat Boone should be on the list at least twice.
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DonnyL
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #21 on:
May 14, 2008, 10:00:09 AM »
ranking 500 or whatever it is albums doesn't even make sense to my brain. rolling stone seems to have an endless supply of these books or magazines or websites and they change every few years to include some recent critics' darlings, only to have those titles disappear in the next edition. Kinks' village green (one of my favorites) is a good example of an album that was all but ignored until "Picture Book" was used in a TV commercial. I think that pretty much sums it up.
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the captain
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #22 on:
May 14, 2008, 02:35:51 PM »
Quote from: DonnyL on May 14, 2008, 10:00:09 AM
ranking 500 or whatever it is albums doesn't even make sense to my brain. rolling stone seems to have an endless supply of these books or magazines or websites and they change every few years to include some recent critics' darlings, only to have those titles disappear in the next edition. Kinks' village green (one of my favorites) is a good example of an album that was all but ignored until "Picture Book" was used in a TV commercial. I think that pretty much sums it up.
I agree with your main point, but you're wrong about the Kinks' Village Green. It was an indie favorite in the mid-90s when bands such as those in the Elephant 6 sprung up. Kevin Barnes of Of Montreal, for example, always praised the band and that album. But of course the commercial brought it to another new set of ears a decade later.
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Aegir
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #23 on:
May 14, 2008, 09:46:08 PM »
Yeah, but did they talk about it in Rolling Stone?
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Quote from: runnersdialzero on April 05, 2012, 06:08:41 PM
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Re: Joke Of The Day
«
Reply #24 on:
May 15, 2008, 08:29:10 AM »
village green has always been an album respected by real people who like good music ....
but yes, the point is the popular critics (rolling stone etc) jump on these bandwagons when the hip cred becomes mainstream ...
there are plenty of incredible, noteworthy albums that do not appear on these lists and will not appear until they gain widespread attention somehow
the previously mentioned muswell hillbillies is a great album that kinks fans and indie musicians etc know is great ... i doubt that appears on the list
INCREDIBLE albums that i would suspect are not on the list (i have not even read this list):
leonard cohen - death of a ladies' man, new skin for the old ceremony
beach boys - friends, surf's up, holland, love you, DW pacific ocean blue
tim buckley - greetings from L.A., starsailor, etc
kinks - muswell hillbillies, great lost kinks album
curt boettcher - there's an innocent face
anything by the turtles, lovin' spoonful, ventures
anything by brian jonestown massacre
belle & sebastian - fold your hands child, dear catastrophe waitress
... i'm sure we could all go on and on all day ... point is we may see some of these down the line (especially after RNR hall of fame inductions etc) once more people start listening or some corporation places a track in a commercial
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