The 64 dollar hypothetical question...

[voxnut]

I was listening to the Pet Sounds box set and it doesn't matter how many times I listen, I am always blown away at Brian's talent.

So here is the question that came to me tonight:

Would you trade places with Brian Wilson? Not just Brian circa 2008, you'd get the whole shootin' match...

[Chris Brown]

No...as much as I'd kill to be in his shoes circa Pet Sounds/Smile era, what came after just isn't worth it. 

[MBE]

No I would hate to hear voices, or be addicted to anything. I would hate to have been as unhappy as him. I think it must still be wonderful to be able to make so many people happy, and it must have been great to be the singer and writer he was in his twenties, but I couldn't do it.

[smile-holland]

Which makes me wonder: is there any Beach Boy at all in who’s shoes you would like to have been.
I mean: obviously every individual is interesting enough to talk about them, and we all like them for (some or most of) what they did in their musical lifes. But knowing what happened besides that (struggles within the band, the social aspects, addictions, illness, tragic deaths, legal suits), would you want to have traded places with Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike, Al, Bruce, or David?

[Aegir]

I don't know much about Bruce's personal life but it seems like he got a good deal. He's never even been divorced!

[Chris Brown]

Yeah Bruce might not be a bad choice...nice upbringing, never had to worry about money, no mental/drug problems, and got to participate in the creation of some of the best music of the 60's.  Doesn't sound too bad to me.

[tpesky]

Mike in a second.  No instrument to play! Easier parts to sing! He got to write songs with Brian, and I would get to wear a gold vest! Also, get to go out with many good looking girls. I just hope I would do a few things differently.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

It's a deal with the devil. Pro's and cons to all.

Being Brian, you get to be able to write great songs, eat alot, lay in bed, eat cake, get to be married to that fox Marilyn (grrrrroowwwl!), get lots of money, get a good head of hair. You also get the stress of having to produce hits, a father breathing down your neck, hitting you in the head with a two-by-four, getting brainwashed by Landy, appearing awkward during television appearances you really want no part of, being pushed out onto a stage when you suffer from severe mental illness.

Mike - get to be lead singer, score alot with the ladies, have the tranquility found from perfecting transendental meditation (Mick Jagger is CHICKENSHIT!), lots of money and nice rings, songwriting royalties. But then you gotta lose your hair, pay dozens of women alimony, get into lawsuits every couple weeks, get blamed for the demise of Smile when it probably wasn't 100% your fault, get blamed for steering the Beach Boys into bland, corporate nostalgia territory when it was the only choice as the "artists" in the band either died or wasted away on drugs.

Carl - hmmm. He really is a kind of enigma, isn't he? Aside from the '78 tour when he was a wreck, he seemed to be pretty together most of the time. But that's what makes me suspsicious. What was going on underneath it all? Who knows. You get to play on stage with a tight band, get to sing great songs, have a nice family. Heck, the only bad side to being Carl would be having to be raised in the Wilson household and, well, dying too young.

Dennis- a short ride, but he made every second count, no? Girls girls girls. For some, that might be all you need. Get to be coolest guy in Beach Boys, but also deal with addiction, personal demons, and again, dying too young.

Al - what's so bad about being Al? Seems like he has a good life, nice home at Big Sur, good family, get's to make music with friends. Maybe his royalty checks aren't as big as Mike and Brian, but it's not all about the money. Besides,  you have a degree in dentistry to fall back on. Yeah, you know what? It ain't a bad deal being Al.

Bruce - Meh.

[the captain]

Maybe Blondie: you make it big locally, regionally ... then come into a band when they're really going into a cool sound; get a chance to sing with some great singers; add a unique dimension to the group that creates a new live sound for them; get to record with some great recording minds (C. Wilson and S. Desper especially); tour the world; and then after you've left, you get a little gig that almost certainly pays pretty well, too. The Rolling Somebodies.  Much as I'd love to be in their shoes for some high points, there's no way I'd choose any of the Wilsons.

[John]

Mike - get to be lead singer, score alot with the ladies, have the tranquility found from perfecting transendental meditation (Mick Jagger is CHICKENmerda!), lots of money and nice rings,

"Nice rings" cracked me up.

So I take it we can't "change" things? Cause if we could, I'd be Dave and not leave. Plenty of talent, and you get to be a respected "elder stateman" of rock in Mid-1971, at, like, 22 years old. And you get to add another voice to the cool rockers side of the BBS, and they might not have needed the Schmaltzmeister. This could possiby be a thread on it's own, a hypothetical "What if Dave'd stayed?"

Mind you, talking about hypotheticals, I often wonder if the BBs story would be different (for the better) if Mike had kept his hair and had the ability to grow a cool moptop in 1964....

[MBE]

Dave staying would have been cool. I guess Al could have come on full time in 1965.  One thing I would miss though is Ricky and Blondie unless it was say David who left in 1972. Deirdre and Disney Girls are really good, but Bruce (especally since 1978) has made the group less cool.

[John]

I think that things would have continued the way they did to August 1963 - Al comes back in on bass, replaces Brian on tour. Brian is mainly keys in the studio. If Dave doesn't leave, he'd've started writing his own stuff, and Brian would've had no need to play live during late 1963-late 1964 - unless of course he wanted to and played organ or piano live. He'd have more time to devote to those albums, possibly resulting in at least a better Shut Down Vol. 2 - I still think he'd've cracked up sooner or later though, like on the plane.

Dave starts contributing songs to the albums here and there (a Harrisonesque one or two to start with) and because they already have the full two guitars-bass-drums thing going on, there's no real need to recruit Bruce, thereby removing his songs (plus Bluebirds) from the equation. Yes, Pet Sounds wouldn't have been "promoted" over in the UK with no Bruce but then again, Andrew Oldham was boosting it up, maybe the expectations wouldn't have been piled so high on SMiLE.

SMiLE might well have gone ahead, because Dave would've backed up Denny, judging by a) their obvious friendship and b) Dave's stated taste for progression - if not, well, the Beach Boys have another "rocker" image at least, and the harder-edged music a Carl-Denny-Dave axis might have made would perhaps make a big difference in the late 60s; as Dave came into his own and perhaps a lead guitarist (freed from Murry, why not?) maybe there'd be more instrumental virtuosity when it's most needed, and the new Little Bird-meets-the-Moon sound maybe might have kept the BBs at the top.

Ricky Fataar would still have joined at least, because of Denny's accident, and maybe Blondie too, as a sometime guitarist-bassist-singer during the early Seventies Beach Boys musical chairs thing; perhaps Carl would've played more keyboards and Al switched to rhythm more, who knows? Maybe they'd've just added Blondie anyway. And of course, Dave may've helped fight the Endless Summer oldies-set Carl and Denny were against (and 15 Big Ones). Dave reckons he might have died from drug abuse, but who knows? Who woulda thought Brian would still be alive? Denny might not have even died if he had more say in the band, again, who knows?

I see a lot of advantages in a Wilson-axis supporting rocker / snotty punk being the "sixth" Beach Boy over Mr. Going Public.
I agree that losing Disney Girls is a shame, but who knows what might have taken it's place?

[John]

My apologies for derailing the thread slightly, by the way.

[Wrightfan]

I'd love to have songwriting abilities...

But to be in his shoes? No way. Couldn't pay be enough to do it.

[Sheriff John Stone]

My apologies for derailing the thread slightly, by the way.

No, John, that was a good post. Think how cool that would've been with Carl Wilson and David Marks on guitars, with Al on bass. That would've rocked! They still could've brought Bruce in on keyboards, if they wanted his voice. 

[John]

Yeah, I think this could be spun off on its own thread, perhaps? I'd be interested in what Jon Stebbins says about it.

[Jay]

Call me totally bat sh*t insane, but I might actually say yes to living Brian's entire life. For good, bad, or indifferent. Think about it...everybody likes to make theories about what Brian went through, right? Well, there would be no better way than to step into his shoes, so to speak.