Ana-Lu
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 75
|
|
« on: April 03, 2008, 05:58:29 AM » |
|
I've seen the following two claims both perpetuated and refuted for decades. Anyone have the final word on either one of these?
1. "Sloop John B" was included on Pet Sounds at Capitol's insistence, because it was their latest single, and that it was never intended for that album (easy one for me to believe).
2. Murray was behind the speeding up of "Caroline No" (difficult for me to believe). If this is true, how was he even involved enough at point to make such a call?
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
|
|
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2008, 06:15:26 AM » |
|
1. "Sloop John B" was included on Pet Sounds at Capitol's insistence, because it was their latest single, and that it was never intended for that album (easy one for me to believe). Not true. Brian submitted a track listing that included that track,which wasn't even released at the time!
|
|
|
Logged
|
Need your song mixed/mastered? Contact me at fear2stop@yahoo.com. Serious inquiries only, please!
|
|
|
shelter
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2201
|
|
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2008, 06:21:14 AM » |
|
2. Maybe he just made a suggestion and Brian thought it was a good idea?
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
PongHit
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 1085
AVOID MISSING BALL FOR HIGH SCORE • JeffWinner.com
|
|
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2008, 07:22:24 AM » |
|
2. Murray was behind the speeding up of "Caroline No" (difficult for me to believe).
It's not Murray -- it's Murry. Minutiae indeed!
|
|
|
Logged
|
''Only more damage can arise from this temporary, fleeting image of success known as The Beach Boys.'' —MURRY WILSON
''People are thinking Mike Love is crazy.'' —MIKE LOVE
''Mike Love? He's Crazy.'' —BRIAN WILSON
|
|
|
Chris Brown
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2014
|
|
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2008, 08:14:44 AM » |
|
The Murry thing is true I'm pretty sure. Brian has obviously talked about it, and Bruce mentioned how it bugged him in the booklet that came with the Pet Sounds box.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Ana-Lu
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 75
|
|
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2008, 08:21:16 AM » |
|
So did Murry simply suggest it and they thought it was a good idea? The versions of the story I've heard/read imply that Murry was in the studio and did this almost surreptitiously.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Chris Brown
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2014
|
|
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2008, 08:54:30 AM » |
|
So did Murry simply suggest it and they thought it was a good idea? The versions of the story I've heard/read imply that Murry was in the studio and did this almost surreptitiously.
The story as I've heard it goes that Brian played the track for Murry, he suggested it and Brian agreed. I don't think it was one of Murry's control things...just more of a tossed off suggestion that Brian thought would sound good.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Mark H.
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 316
|
|
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2008, 10:05:18 AM » |
|
So did Murry simply suggest it and they thought it was a good idea? The versions of the story I've heard/read imply that Murry was in the studio and did this almost surreptitiously.
The story as I've heard it goes that Brian played the track for Murry, he suggested it and Brian agreed. I don't think it was one of Murry's control things...just more of a tossed off suggestion that Brian thought would sound good. That's the story I've heard as well.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Ana-Lu
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 75
|
|
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2008, 10:10:53 AM » |
|
Thanks for the replies. The "Sloop John B" rumor is even perpetuated in the liner notes of the mono/stereo Pet Sounds CD, at least in my copy from a few years ago (not sure if it's been remastered since then.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Ana-Lu
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 75
|
|
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2008, 10:16:05 AM » |
|
One more nagging question related to Pet Sounds:
In the late 80s or early 90s, an oddball mix of "Wouldn't it Be Nice" started to be played on oldies radio. It was mono IIRC and had a different Mike Love vocal on the bridge. Anyone heard this and know where it originated?
BTW, I'm definitely NOT talking about the the box set version with Brian on the bridge. The mix I'm discussing was around for several years before the box set came out.
What's the story with this one?
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Bicyclerider
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2132
|
|
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2008, 10:46:27 AM » |
|
What you describe sounds like the WIBN that came out on Made in the USA. It also I think was released on a single rerelease by mistake.
Murry suggested the speed change to make Brian's voice sound younger, which he thought suited the song (lost innocence and all). I prefer the original speed but it was an interesting idea.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Rocker
Smiley Smile Associate
Online
Gender:
Posts: 10680
"Too dumb for New York City, too ugly for L.A."
|
|
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2008, 10:55:50 AM » |
|
What you describe sounds like the WIBN that came out on Made in the USA. It also I think was released on a single rerelease by mistake.
I think it's on "Still cruisin'" too. My experience says that classic rock-stations in Germany tend to play that version (if they play the BBs at all)
|
|
|
Logged
|
a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LISTTo sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.- Jack Rieley
|
|
|
SG7
Guest
|
|
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2008, 10:57:55 AM » |
|
Might be the one that was on Still Crusin' but anyone, feel free to clarify.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Joshilyn Hoisington
|
|
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2008, 11:13:03 AM » |
|
Here's another falsehood that's been perpetuated: Pet Sounds didn't sell when it came out, it bombed, etc.
Later research showed that it went "gold" pretty quickly.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Ana-Lu
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 75
|
|
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2008, 11:15:47 AM » |
|
Pop stars who have a string of number one hits are quick to call their first single that gets to number 2 a "flop." It's all relative, but yes, I hear you.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Bicyclerider
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2132
|
|
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2008, 11:26:39 AM » |
|
George Martin considered Penny Lane/Strawberry Fields a flop because it only made number 2 rather than 1 - apparently because the two songs charted independently and total sales of the single weren't combined. He wished he'd put "When I'm 64" on the flip of SFF instead.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Rocker
Smiley Smile Associate
Online
Gender:
Posts: 10680
"Too dumb for New York City, too ugly for L.A."
|
|
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2008, 11:32:56 AM » |
|
Pop stars who have a string of number one hits are quick to call their first single that gets to number 2 a "flop." It's all relative, but yes, I hear you.
You know, I always wondered why the Beach Boys "only" had three no.1s in the 60s.
|
|
|
Logged
|
a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LISTTo sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.- Jack Rieley
|
|
|
Sam_BFC
Smiley Smile Associate
Online
Gender:
Posts: 1077
|
|
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2008, 01:21:05 PM » |
|
Later research showed that it went "gold" pretty quickly.
What of the story that Capitol mis-counted the sales or something like that...so it was awarded Gold status late? Or am I confusing that with something else? Cheers Sam
|
|
|
Logged
|
"..be cautious, don't get your hopes up, look over your shoulder because heartbreak and darkness are always ready to pounce"
petsoundsnola
|
|
|
HighOnLife
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 212
|
|
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2008, 02:11:44 PM » |
|
It's been said that Capitol lost paperwork that would have made Pet Sounds at least three times platinum by now.
|
|
|
Logged
|
"I don't do drugs. I am drugs."
|
|
|
southbay
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 1483
|
|
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2008, 02:30:04 PM » |
|
According to Bruce Johnston, Sloop John B was NOT intended for Pet Sounds...
|
|
|
Logged
|
Summer's gone...it's finally sinking in
|
|
|
Joshilyn Hoisington
|
|
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2008, 02:53:24 PM » |
|
According to Bruce Johnston, Sloop John B was NOT intended for Pet Sounds...
Another good example of contemporaneous paperwork proving a band member's memory incorrect.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Andrew G. Doe
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 17767
The triumph of The Hickey Script !
|
|
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2008, 03:02:56 PM » |
|
Later research showed that it went "gold" pretty quickly.
What of the story that Capitol mis-counted the sales or something like that...so it was awarded Gold status late? Or am I confusing that with something else? Cheers Sam The thing with RIAA certification is that the record company has to request, and pay for, an audit of the album's sales. It's not an automatic thing. The news that Pet Sounds would have gone gold in the summer of 1967 only emerged when an audit was done in 2000 in order to present Brian with a disc at his Roxy shows. The album was certified gold and platinum on February 11th that year.
|
|
|
Logged
|
The four sweetest words in my vocabulary: "This poster is ignored".
|
|
|
Sheriff John Stone
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 5309
|
|
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2008, 03:29:27 PM » |
|
I thought I heard/read that Murry was "fired" or let go in 1964, and gradually faded into irrelevance with the group. So, I'm mildly surprised that 1) Murry was in the studio for the Pet Sounds sessions instead of just hearing the album when it came out, 2) that Brian was still listening to Murry's suggestions, and 3) that if Murry did make the suggestion, that he war right! I can't even listen to the slower (original?) "Caroline No" lead vocal.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Joshilyn Hoisington
|
|
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2008, 03:30:49 PM » |
|
Another falsehood perpetuated: The Boys didn't play on Pet Sounds at all.
Brian played on That's Not Me and Pet Sounds Dennis played on That's Not Me Carl played on That's Not Me, I'm Waiting for the Day, and God Only Knows Al very likely contributed to That's Not Me
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Mark H.
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 316
|
|
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2008, 03:41:27 PM » |
|
I thought I heard/read that Murry was "fired" or let go in 1964, and gradually faded into irrelevance with the group. So, I'm mildly surprised that 1) Murry was in the studio for the Pet Sounds sessions instead of just hearing the album when it came out, 2) that Brian was still listening to Murry's suggestions, and 3) that if Murry did make the suggestion, that he war right! I can't even listen to the slower (original?) "Caroline No" lead vocal.
You can fire your manager....but you can't really fire your father. I think Brian was always trying to get Murry's approval....I'm sure he played Murry stuff in the studio before it was released. Hell....Murry co-wrote Breakaway with Brian. They may have collaberated more I can't recall. In addition, Murry still held alot of financial sway with sea of Tunes, so I'm sure he would check in periodically to see how investment was doing. The BB's never really stopped being a family business.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|