Monterey Pop Festival...What If?

[jmc]

This probably has been discussed at length in older threads and its all a big "What if", but I want to discuss (or re-discuss) the idea of the Beach Boys performing at the Monterey Pop Festival. 

"IF" they had decided to play....what would the reaction have been from the crowd and the other bands? 

I think their reception would have depended on multiple factors. 

(1) Their set list (Good Vibrations, Pet Sounds stuff, Smile stuff - no car or surfing songs);

(2) Their appearance (striped shirts....NO);

(3) Who played (Brian with the group as well as other studio musicians (horns, strings, to get the full sound, etc.), and

(4) Where they played in the line up.  Meaning, better to follow The Mammas and Pappas, Simon and Garfunkel, as opposed to The Who, or Hendrix. Or maybe not...if they sound good then maybe it wouldn't matter.

(5) Their ability to pull off a decent performance of these songs, meaning lots of rehearsals to get their chops up (i.e. not like the Hawaii 67' shows).

So, what songs would they/could they play? Assuming (as headliners) they played ~5-8 songs, and assuming they had backing musicians could they do the smile stuff? 

My picks:

Our Prayer
Heroes and Villains (cantina version)
Vegetables
Cabinessence (probably tough to play live, but man I think it would have blown peoples minds if they could pull it off)
Pet Sounds
Sloop John B
God Only Knows
Good Vibrations
Surf's Up (Brian solo on piano)

So, assuming they had some of their more progressive tracks well rehearsed and down pat, backing musicians to fill out the sound, and  they performed the songs well (good vocals etc..), how would it have been received?   

[Sheriff John Stone]

jmc, I agree with all the points you made, and you stated them well. The only thing I would tweak would be your proposed setlist.

Due to the fact that the festival was in California, it was outdoors, there were several thousand people there as opposed to an inside intimate setting, and that I believe rock and roll could've still won them over, I propose:

California Girls
Sloop John B
Wouldn't It Be Nice
God Only Knows
Heroes And Villains
Good Vibrations
Fun, Fun, Fun (yes, a good old rockin' sing-a-long closer)



 

[Jon Stebbins]

Your scenario of criteria would not have happened. They wore the striped shirts through '67, they still played a medley of the surf and car songs as well...no way they would have used auxiliary musicians, that didn't happen until '68. Those are fundamental things that didn't change until well after Monterey...and maybe because of Monterey. The only thing you would have gotten from your wish list is yes Brian would have played with them. The odds on them doing Cabinessence or Surfs Up would have been zero. Why would they do Smile stuff when the album had been scrapped already? The only way Monterey could have been some kind of triumph for them is IF Smile had come out in March or April and blown everyone's minds, and then they had capitalized on that with a fundamental change in their live approach. But none of that happened and therefore the Beach Boys that would have played Monterey would have been basically the same BB's that did the Hawaii shows in August. They would have been as well received as Johnny Rivers, The Association and The Mamas and Papas, but not as well received as Hendrix, Big Brother etc...

[the captain]

I have to agree somewhat with SJS (weird, huh?) on this one: an outdoor festival isn't the place to try to pull off "Prayer," in particular, especially considering the (lack of) quality of monitors and sound equipment that was around at the time. I don't believe that song in particular would have been even good, much less a knockout, in that situation. And the idea of augmenting the group might not have worked well in that outdoor setting either--at least with strings. Maybe a small horn section would have worked all right, though.

As for setlist, part of the band's appeal as a live band was always their hits, even when those hits were anachronistic (as in the early 70s). Yes, I think Monterey would have called for some more interesting tunes, but I don't think they could have counted on playing primarily (still unknown) Smile tunes. That's not to say that a setlist like SJS proposes would have gone over well, either. The fact is they just might have been in a losing situation at that point, in a natural low of an up-and-down career.

[the captain]

Your scenario of criteria would not have happened. They wore the striped shirts through '67, they still played a medley of the surf and car songs as well...no way they would have used auxiliary musicians, that didn't happen until '68. Those are fundamental things that didn't change until well after Monterey...and maybe because of Monterey. The only thing you would have gotten from your wish list is yes Brian would have played with them. The odds on them doing Cabinessence or Surfs Up would have been zero. Why would they do Smile stuff when the album had been scrapped already? The only way Monterey could have been some kind of triumph for them is IF Smile had come out in March or April and blown everyone's minds, and then they had capitalized on that with a fundamental change in their live approach. But none of that happened and therefore the Beach Boys that would have played Monterey would have been basically the same BB's that did the Hawaii shows in August. They would have been as well received as Johnny Rivers, The Association and The Mamas and Papas, but not as well received as Hendrix, Big Brother etc...

Jon, I don't know that reality is really the point here. I think the hypothetical isn't concerning itself with whether the band was doing those things (augmenting its core, dressing more to the style of the day, etc.)--which you point out it was not--but with what might have happened had they done those things. Hence the fun of hypotheticals.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Those are fundamental things that didn't change until well after Monterey...and maybe because of Monterey.

Do you think, Jon, that they could've/would've expedited some or all of those changes just because it WAS Monterey? It would've taken some serious planning and willingness to change, and it would've had to happen in a hurry. Or am I giving them too much credit?

[roll plymouth rock]

I think there was potential for auxiliary musicians to join the Beach Boys at Monterey. And yeah, they probably wouldn't have been as incendiary as Hendrix, but they would've been a lot better than groups like Mamas and the Papas who were essentially BB-lite at the time. I mean, Brian wasn't stupid - he was on the Monterey Board of Directors and the whole show was recorded on Brother Records equipment. Besides, wasn't Hal Blaine and the Wrecking Crew the house band? I always thought it seems logical that the people who played on the Beach Boys records with the group would be able to join them live as long as they had some rehearsals. Jan & Dean played with them for their TV pilot the previous year and it sounded fine, and I figure since Brian had been relatively involved with Monterey and its planning until that point, and had also been working on some cutting edge avant garde music, I could see him being smart enough to have the foresight to be able to plan something special for Monterey. 

[Aegir]

Those are fundamental things that didn't change until well after Monterey...and maybe because of Monterey.

Do you think, Jon, that they could've/would've expedited some or all of those changes just because it WAS Monterey? It would've taken some serious planning and willingness to change, and it would've had to happen in a hurry. Or am I giving them too much credit?

No one at the time knew how important Monterey was going to be in rock history, so they wouldn't've changed their whole way of live performances just because a pop festival.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Aegir brings up a good point. They likely would've done a "regular" setlist,  which may have gotten them booed off the stage.

[roll plymouth rock]

Those are fundamental things that didn't change until well after Monterey...and maybe because of Monterey.

Do you think, Jon, that they could've/would've expedited some or all of those changes just because it WAS Monterey? It would've taken some serious planning and willingness to change, and it would've had to happen in a hurry. Or am I giving them too much credit?

No one at the time knew how important Monterey was going to be in rock history, so they wouldn't've changed their whole way of live performances just because a pop festival.

Perhaps, but why was Brian one of the head honchos on the planning committee with Lou Adler, Paul McCartney, etc... and how did he just happen to have the foresight to arrange to have the Brother Records gear to be used for the show? He may have had an inclination that this gathering of psychedelic musicians (Remember he as quoted in the press at this time saying 'anyone who is happening these days is psychedelic", etc...) being innovative should be recorded for posterity.  With hindsight its easy to say that they would've flopped because they dropped out, but I don't think they dropped out because they were unable to measure up - I give Brian more credit than that. There was a lot of much weirder stuff (ie, Brian not wanting to take responsibility for all the crazy acid trips Smile could've sent young people on) that factored into the decision IMHO

[Jon Stebbins]

Brian was on the Monterey board, but aside from kicking in some dough and letting them use the BB's sound system he wasn't very involved at all. That history is clear. And the only way the BB's would have expedited anything close to the things people are fantasizing about here is if SMILE had happened...and it didn't. So if you want to re-phrase the scenario that started this thread as, "how might Monterey have turned out if the BB's released SMILE?"...then you've got to think yes some of those things like new clothes and backing musicians might have happened...maybe. But without that, things would have been exactly like they were in Hawaii in August, check that set, its generally the same one they would have used in Monterey, wearing striped shirts, with five guys on stage(six if both Bruce and Brian showed). No Smile material would have been performed unless the LP had not been scrapped...which it had.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

A somewhat hypothetical situation we could put into play would be to simply move the timeline a bit.  For instance, what if Monterey had happened a little later.  Not necessarily a later date, but "later in the Beach Boys time line".

Like, if they had hired Ron Brown and a couple of Dragons by Monterey?  I think with Brian there, they wouldn't get booed off the stage.  He had some respect, despite the matching shirts.

I actually have thought periodically about recording some Smile songs as a faux live soundcheck featuring the instrumentation available with the 5 touring Beach Boys.

[TonyW]

I just dug out my copy of the Montery Pop box set and checked through the comprehensive and impressive booklet. Points of note:

1. The Beach Boys were booked to headline the Saturday night but when they pulled out (at short notice) there spot was taken by Ottis Redding (and a legend was born). Source: John Phillips - Page 27

2. According to the credits the recording facilities used were the "Wally Heider Mobile Studios". Sound Engineers: Wally Heider and Bones Howe. Source "The Festival Staff - Remote Recording" - Page 87.

3. The notable MPF staff who were part of teh Beach Boys/SMiLE allumni were: Michael Vosse (Editorial Department - Assistant Editor), Derek Taylor (Public Relations - Director) & Brian Wilson (Board of Governors). "The Festival Staff" Page 87.

4. A check through the credited musicians on each of the bands on the box set shows that the bands were virtually self contained and a that there are no references to or credits for a "house band" - the credits on the box set are extensive - the only reference I can find to members of the Wrecking Crew are: Larry Knechtel on piano and Joe Osborn on bass in the Mamas and Papas band. Note: This does not preclude Wrecking Crew members from other acts not included on the box set.

[jmc]

So if you want to re-phrase the scenario that started this thread as, "how might Monterey have turned out if the BB's released SMILE?"...then you've got to think yes some of those things like new clothes and backing musicians might have happened...maybe.

You are right.  "It's all a What if?"

My initial intentions were for these criteria to be assumed (Smile not shelved, willingness to try other outfits etc.) .....my bad, I should have been more clear. 

I guess I was wondering if they did make changes X,Y, and Z would they "The Beach Boys" have been able to shed their surf, hotrod image with their new sounds, a different stage appearance, larger stage band with fuller sounds, etc?  Would that have been enough? Or would they always be weighted down by their earlier music.

I use quotes on "The Beach Boys" because the name itself doesn't exactly jive with the new direction Brian was going.  I think Brian knew that Monterey was going to be big; in terms of exposure and mingling with other bands from all over.  If I had to guess, I'd say he knew the Boys weren't going to come over very well with their old hits and that they didn't have the time or energy to rehearse some of their newer sounds, so screw it.

[Aegir]

Desper said the reason the Beach Boys didn't play Monterey was that it was sponsored by Coca Cola and Mike Love thought it was wrong to promote soft drink consumption.

[Mark H.]

I think one can see Hal Blaine playing drums on the Mama's & Papa's set.  The backing band doesn't sound that good as I recall.  I really like the way Buffalo Springfield sounded at Monteray.

The BB's would have pulled out the white Baldwin organ for Brian to play....my guess.  Stripped shirts and all.

[roll plymouth rock]

4. there are no references to or credits for a "house band"

On page 178 of Look! Listen! Vibrate! Smile! there is a Monterey poster with ALL STAR HOUSEBAND listed as:
DRUMS - HAL BLAINE
PIANO - LARRY KNECTEL (sic)
BASS - JOE OSBORN
GUITAR - AL DASY
VIBES - GARY COLMAN
HORNS - OLLIE MITCHEL, JIM HORN, FRED HILL, REDDY EDWARDS, LOU McREARY, LOU BLACKBURN

The Beach Boys with these dudes as an additional backing band would've sounded rad I think, whether or not Smile had been released. I think the versions of California Girls, God Only Knows & Surfer Girl, etc... from Hawaii 67 sound great. Imagine that mellow vibe with more than just a Baldwin for instrumentation

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Assuming they mean either Al Casey or Mike Deasy on guitar...

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Also, while it was indeed Heider doing the recording, it was Desper and the Beach Boys system providing the FOH mix.  Or whatever you'd call it outside.  "Front-of-Outside" mix, I guess.

[Bicyclerider]

Ron Brown and Daryl Dragon were touring with the Beach Boys in 1967 - the Thanksgiving/Christmas tour at the end of the year.  Yeah, I realize that still means they would be self contained for Monterey.

I think SJS's setlist is quite good, and probably would have gone over well with the crowd.  The film producers would pick Good Vibrations for the film - a perfect encapsulation of progressive avant-garde psychedelic rock in 1967.  It might have boosted sales for Smiley Smile (the film didn't come out until 1968, right?) and Wild Honey, but wouldn't have altered the artistic and group dynamic changes that were occuring IMO.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Ron Brown and Daryl Dragon were touring with the Beach Boys in 1967 - the Thanksgiving/Christmas tour at the end of the year.  Yeah, I realize that still means they would be self contained for Monterey.

Yeah, we wouldn't have to make too far of a hypothetical leap for that situation.  They would have been a big help.

[Alex]

SOME PLEASING FICTION:

In my ideal universe, SMiLE is released in the summer of '67, a few weeks after Sgt. Pepper, the BBs play the Monterrey Pop Festival with a setlist heavy in songs from Pet Sounds and the upcoming record SMiLE, plus a couple tracks from Summer Days thrown in to appease the Lovester. Ron Brown and Daryl Dragon join the group several months earlier than in real life. The house band plus Brown, Dragon, and a horn section back up the group. BOTH Brian and Bruce are on stage for this. Brian sports a beard similar to the one he has in the photo session on the beach in the Smiley Smile liner notes. The boys wear their normal clothes instead of striped shirts. (I personally don't think the Pet Sounds era untucked striped shirts along with Mike having a beard and wearing a hat looked that bad, just untucking the shirts and letting their hair get shaggy was a huge improvement over their look from '63-'64). Brian would be playing his white Baldwin organ for this show.

I think the setlist would be something like this:

Wouldn't It Be Nice
Vega-Tables
Heroes and Villains
Wonderful
Surf's Up
California Girls
You're So Good To Me
God Only Knows
Sloop John B
Their Hearts Were Full of Spring
Good Vibrations

The Beach Boys win over the crowd by the end of the show, SMiLE is released. Although Pepper has been declared "best album ever" by the press, SMiLE instantly wins that title from Pepper. The Beach Boys are called "the new Beatles". The center of power in rock music shifts to LA. The druggies from San Fransisco take a back seat to the LA scene. The Beach Boys become the new darlings of the media, LA groups like The Association, the Mamas and the Papas, Love, The Doors, the Byrds, etc. are all the rage. Hendrix, the Who, Zeppelin, Blue Cheer, Steppenwolf, Deep Purple, etc. become popular but take a back seat to more pop-based psychedelic music. The Monkees "Head" becomes the #1 movie in the world. Syd Barrett's band The Pink Floyd become the only new British band to garner massive record sales in the late 60s, Barrett never goes "crazy" and is never fired from the Floyd. The Beatles scramble to get back on top and beat SMiLE by attempting to do a grand follow up to Pepper. Basically, it could be the White Album but with full orchestras and psychedelic effects on every song. Dylan comes back with John Wesley Harding, and just because he's Dylan, it sells well, but only the Stones follow him with the back to basics approach. Beggars Banquet is considered a disappointment compared to the grand psychedelia of Satanic Majesties Request. Brian still has his breakdown, though not as severe as what really happened, early in the sessions for a SMiLE follow up. The group ends up taking creative control from Brian, but not before he produces Time To Get Alone and Darlin' for the group. The follow up ends up being a double album featuring all the songs from Wild Honey and Friends, minus Transcendental Meditation and Mama Says, plus Time to Get Alone, Lonely Days, The Letter, I Went To Sleep, and We're Together Again. Jesse Jackson takes the bullet for Martin Luther King, Sirhan Sirhan misses Bobby Kennedy, Kennedy wins the election, we get out of Vietnam by 1969. The Beach Boys minus Brian, plus Daryl, Doug, and Ed Carter headline Woodstock. Altamont and Kent State never happen. The Republican Party slowly whithers away, is reduced to a third party by the 1980s. A 3 way struggle between the Democrats, the Socialists, and the Libertarians, with the occasional threat by Republicans becomes the new standard in American politics. American society as a whole moves to the left. By the 1980s, the Beach Boys are one of the most respected acts in the world. The Lovester has left the group to permanently front Celebration because he wasn't getting enough time in the Beach Boy concerts to sing about endless summertime. Blondie and Ricky never leave the group. Bruce ends up joining Mike Love and Celebration. The embarrassing 4th of July concerts and crappy TV specials never happen. Dennis doesn't die until '86 or '87.  Bambu is released. Songs for a 3rd Dennis solo album end up becoming the basis, along with a few Brian songs and a couple by Al and Carl, for a BB album in 1985. Kokomo ends up being a hit, but for Mike Love and Celebration instead of the Beach Boys. 10 years after leaving the BBs, Mike gets his first hit since Almost Summer. Summer in Paradise ends up being an album by Celebration, not the BBs. In the 90s, Celebration breaks up. Just in time for the 1995 reunion, Mike and Bruce come back to the BBs. Brian still goes through all the Landy BS, but also comes back to the group full tim in '95. The songs Brian wrote with Andy Paley/Don Was plus some of Carl's Like a Brother songs become the new BB album in 1996. Soul Searchin' gets a respectable entry on the charts. The 1996 album is hailed as yet another masterpiece from the Wilson Bros. Unfortunately, Carl still gets the cancer. Brian ends up marrying Melinda. Stars and Stripes is never even thought of. Joe Thomas does not enter the picture at all, in fact, he's still a wrestler, and suffers an embarrassing loss to Hulk Hogan on a WWF or WCW TV special. Carl ends up passing away in 2/98 just like in real life. Dave Marks comes back to take his place. By this point in time, Brian is working on a new solo album called Imagination. With Carl gone, Blondie and Ricky both see no point in staying with the group and quit. Mike takes control of the group's setlists and gives them the same treatment he did Celebration. Al protests this move, says Carl would've never approved of this, gets fired. Dave Marks ends up leaving, and Mike and Bruce tour around as the Beach Boys. Its basically Mike Love and Celebration in everything but name. Brian ends up hooking up with the Wondermints and tours the world to great acclaim. Carl and Dennis are sorely missed. Al tours with the ex-BB sidemen. Mike and Bruce are reviled by critics and by diehard BB fans, but the soccer moms eat them right up believing they are the real thing. Brian's That Lucky Old Sun becomes a top 10 album, while some rehashing of the old BB sound with a pun on Mike Love's name in the title tanks. But Mike still claims he's got the one-up on Brian because another one of the endless BB hits compilations charts higher than Lucky Old Sun.


That's all wishful thinking, of course.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Well, since we're doing complete fan fiction here, here's mine:

It's the same as ascrodin's until the middle 70s...

While in Holland, Mike discovers decadent European godlessness and gets heavy into philosophy.  Holland comes out and goes about the same as it did in reality, but the group love Holland so much they set up a permanent base there.  Only Bruce does not take up permanent residence, as he buys a flat in London.

Mike's interest in heavy European philosophy combined with his ties with Indian mysticism cause him to turn inwards and he comes into his own as a hip lyricist.  The follow-up to Holland is a funky, dark record.  Brian is not too involved, but Mike's renewed enthusiasm in creativity helps him maintain an interest.

Meanwhile, the US misses it's beloved icons, and after a self-imposed three year exile, the Beach Boys return for a huge, sold-out tour.  While on tour, Dennis and Mike come to blows over some tension between them, but later that night Dennis shows up at Mike's hotel room with a bottle of Whisky and a bag of McDonalds, andthe two work out all their problems.

After the tour, about 1980, Dennis releases Pacific Ocean Blue...and the other Beach Boys all release solo albums as well.  They are all well received, except Bruce's.

Mike's in particular, shocks the public with it's surprisingly deep Wilson/Love compositions sung in Mike's seldom heard tender voice.

Dennis goes on to be the biggest star of the early 80s, and opens for the Police several times.  Sting, inspired by Dennis' relentless creativity, decides to abandon the lite-jazz sounds he's exploring for his hoped-for solo career, and instead pursues a savagely progressive sound.

All the success is too much for Dennis, who dies in early 1982.

Mike is so distraught that he vows to always keep Dennis' memory alive.

Brian goes through difficult times, and the public wants a new album, so Landy brings in Chuck Britz to do the engineering.  This becomes the most collaborative Beach Boys album since Sunflower, and Brian is very involved.

Meanwhile, Al is feeling distanced from the Wilsons, and decides to tour behind his still-selling-well solo album of obscure folk songs.

While Al is out on tour, The Beach Boys decide to fire him.  But before they can do that, they get a message from Al saying he quits.

The two entities continue to tour separately, but no albums are recorded until 1987, when Al comes back to the fold and all is forgiven.

The new album is OK, but the group recognizes that they've had a good run, and do a farewell tour.

Landy hires a tutor to teach Brian how to notate music well enough to score for films, which he eventually takes to.  He becomes a successful film scorer.

Mike joins with many organizations to help relieve poverty in the third world.  He still records, but hires hip collaborators every time and generally is well received.

Carl spends a lot of time with his family, and Al continues to write and perform folk-based pop under his own name.

In the late 90s, Carl is not well, so the band gets back together for one final tour.  It's very emotional for all.  Carl dies shortly thereafter.

When the Beach Boys are inducted into the hall of fame, Mike brings the audience to tears with touching heartfelt eulogies for his fallen comrades, and then tastefully adds a little humor when he sees Mick Jagger and self-deprecatingly wonders how the Stones can keep going.

The living members continue to do their thing in relative peace and quiet to this day.

[NHC]

I was 17 at the time, in Northern California, north of San Francisco, a huge Beach Boys fan, and pretty well tuned into the SF and emerging LA music scene, also Cream, Butterfield, Young Rascals, etc., bummed out when I learned they had bowed out. i bet that a couple of full-bore supercharged rockers like Shut Down and Surfin' USA, Fun Fun Fun and Rhonda, played like they were a few years later, would have gone over well.  Even the spaced out hippies couldn't have resisted dancing once that music took off.  Deep down everybody knew how good those songs were, their hip pretensions aside. Add in some newer stuff like the obvious Good Vibrations, H & V, Sloop John B, the yet unknown but just trippy enough Surf's Up, perhaps even something like God Only Knows, and there it is.  The Beach Boys were asked to perform for a reason.  Even though their star had fallen a bit, fine, more than a bit,  and there was a whole new sound that rendered them passe in some eyes, okay, many eyes, they were still California music icons.   Ditch the striped shirts, come out on stage like you own the place with a huge guitar riff, can the corny stage patter and just start rocking.  Just be who you are. They could have done it.  I wish they had.  I could be all wrong but I believe it might have just worked well.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

NHC, I'm with you, I think that pretensions aside, the kids all secretly or not so secretly loved the Beach Boys.  Just a year or two earlier they were probably making out to Don't Worry Baby, after all.