Reopening Dylan discussions of all kinds

[Joel5001]

Oh Mercy hasn't left my car player for the last 2 weeks.  Something about driving around in all of this rain, with that music playing that just feels perfect.  To me, this album can stand right alongside anything else in the catalog.  Does anyone know if any of the outtakes from these sessions have been booted?  i've read that the masters for several of the songs contain multiple vocal tracks (some with completely different lyrics), and that Lanois just punched between them to create the final product.  If this is true (and it sounds dubious to me, as i cant imagine Dylan giving up so much lyrical control), I'd love to hear some of the complete vocal performances.

[al]

I haven't got any but they do exist - seen them on sites.

[Joel5001]

Thanks Alan.  Just went to Bobsboots.com, and it looks like I need to track down "Ring them Bells" and "Deeds of Mercy".

[Jeff Mason]

Oh Mercy is SOOO atmospheric, so eerie and unlike any other Dylan.  I love it and the vibe fits his voice to a T.

[Chance]

Roots has more than Genuine does.

And improved sound quality, too. "Tree" is the way to go for the Basements.

[I. Spaceman]

Thanks to you, I know that! 

[zelilgirlI1cenu]

Oh Boy am I in big trouble. Great references. 6 more lives needed!

[donald]

OK....Lets talk a bit more about the Chronicles book.

Anybody read it...what do you think?

To me its like reading his lyrics....at least to some extent.  I'm left with a series of abstract images and remain as puzzled as ever about the Zimmerman behind the mask.

one of the stranger things in the book is his repeated mentioning of his interest in touring heavily and appearing in the same market 2 or 3 times in a year in order to get it "right"..as if he could detect improvement of some sort by gauging the reaction of the same audience on multiple performances....not necessarily weird but certainly revealing of some insecurities or obsessions...

[I. Spaceman]

Just another mind-foda veil. Maybe his best.

[Joel5001]

Donald, I remember that part about touring the same markets three years in a row as involving his desire to win over a new fan base.  The idea was that his old fans would probably only come the first year, and he wanted word of mouth to spread among his newer, younger fans in the second and third year. 

I love Chronicles.  I'd really love to hear Bob reading it out loud, as I can already imagine him saying most of the lines in the book.  I mean, there are so many things in that book that ONLY Dylan could have written.  His phrasing is amazing.

[Joel5001]

Just another mind-foda veil. Maybe his best.

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't take most of his stories to be, you know, the truth.  Revealing was the part where Bob and Bono were sitting around drinking Guiness, and Bob says when they didn't know about something they would just make it up.  I felt like a lot of the book was like that.

Ian, as a musician, did his whole explanation of his guitar playing and singing method based on the number 3 make any sense to you?  I don't play, and I couldn't really follow it.

[I. Spaceman]

Ian, as a musician, did his whole explanation of his guitar playing and singing method based on the number 3 make any sense to you? 

Nope. I even tried it. No luck.

[donald]

Yeah, that bit about playing..........what the hell was that anyway?  I'm a long time amateur guitarist and I really didn't understand.....

[Sheriff John Stone]

donald,
      Either I'm having hallucinations or your avatar was briefly a photograph of a very sophisticated-looking Curly Howard from The Three Stooges...

[zelilgirlI1cenu]

Coupla things about Chronicles.

His telling of how he went to Woody Guthrie's house is possibly one of the most emotioanlly evocative narrative I have ever read. I was with him on that last train station and in the mud, man.

And of course his realtionshi with the audience, which I think he barely touches upon and surely is a major concrn for any artist and one which is unwritten about.

Now people say Dylan has become a "cold" performer, and he is aware of that. The artist has an imeasurable impact on his audience, one he cant control and has to come to terms with that. Scary stuff. I would be foolish to think artist never think or feel this. So in the book he explains constantly how the effect of fame affected his personal life (and BTW cue Kurt Cobain, it drives people to extremes). And paradoxically he says he had to stop performing at one stage out of respect for his audience. Fascinating stuff, until he found the meaning of  performing again by watching other people  perform. So yeah, in my limited experience, when I saw Dylan, it was probably a "cold"performance, but a meaningful one, because I think the way he entertained the audience is by letting the music speak and not be disturbed by the personality behind it, a thing he is comfortable with, a form of truth from a person who knows he is hiding behind many layers and who knows, I think, that by showing that he is always hiding, allows us to have a glimpse of the truth, if this makes sense, lol. No, no one knows Bob Dylan, so what, does it count? What counts is that we are able to listen to his music. My conclusion is that yes he does show a great respect for his audience, by not deluding them, if they chose to delude themselves fine, but at least he does not promote it. There is commercial experience behind it all, thats the way the world works, unfair as it may be.

[zelilgirlI1cenu]

and a funny thought has just come in my mind, how come a Beach Boys/BW board thinks so much about Bob Dylan, I'd be curious to see if Bob Dylan people think so much about BW, lol.

[Sir Rob]

and a funny thought has just come in my mind, how come a Beach Boys/BW board thinks so much about Bob Dylan, I'd be curious to see if Bob Dylan people think so much about BW, lol.

I'd think there's a lot of crossover between the two audiences - I know I've always been one such person. 

[Sir Rob]

Coupla things about Chronicles.

His telling of how he went to Woody Guthrie's house is possibly one of the most emotioanlly evocative narrative I have ever read. I was with him on that last train station and in the mud, man.

And of course his realtionshi with the audience, which I think he barely touches upon and surely is a major concrn for any artist and one which is unwritten about.

Now people say Dylan has become a "cold" performer, and he is aware of that. The artist has an imeasurable impact on his audience, one he cant control and has to come to terms with that. Scary stuff. I would be foolish to think artist never think or feel this. So in the book he explains constantly how the effect of fame affected his personal life (and BTW cue Kurt Cobain, it drives people to extremes). And paradoxically he says he had to stop performing at one stage out of respect for his audience. Fascinating stuff, until he found the meaning of  performing again by watching other people  perform. So yeah, in my limited experience, when I saw Dylan, it was probably a "cold"performance, but a meaningful one, because I think the way he entertained the audience is by letting the music speak and not be disturbed by the personality behind it, a thing he is comfortable with, a form of truth from a person who knows he is hiding behind many layers and who knows, I think, that by showing that he is always hiding, allows us to have a glimpse of the truth, if this makes sense, lol. No, no one knows Bob Dylan, so what, does it count? What counts is that we are able to listen to his music. My conclusion is that yes he does show a great respect for his audience, by not deluding them, if they chose to delude themselves fine, but at least he does not promote it. There is commercial experience behind it all, thats the way the world works, unfair as it may be.

I think people will always be intrigued by mystery and Dylan, to my mind, has always cultivated a sense of mystery around himself.  One only has to think of how he was telling people as soon as he arrived in NYC that he'd grown up in Gallup New Mexico and had been riding railroads and travelling funfairs etc.   For that reason, I think he protesteth a little too much in 'Chronicles' about people's curiosity.  He can't have it both ways!

Here's another tiny example - everyone knows (or assumes?) that Dylan was born on the 24th May 1941.  Yet the cover of the lyrics booklet which accompanies the Bootleg Series box set is taken up with a picture of (presumably?) Dylan's hand resting on a table next to an open copy of his passport(?) containing his photograph.  Only thing is a different day is given as his birth date and also, if I remember rightly, there was some speculation about whether the height given was correct.  I think it makes him out to be a few inches taller than he actually is. 

[zelilgirlI1cenu]

Here's another tiny example - everyone knows (or assumes?) that Dylan was born on the 24th May 1941.  Yet the cover of the lyrics booklet which accompanies the Bootleg Series box set is taken up with a picture of (presumably?) Dylan's hand resting on a table next to an open copy of his passport(?) containing his photograph.  Only thing is a different day is given as his birth date and also, if I remember rightly, there was some speculation about whether the height given was correct.  I think it makes him out to be a few inches taller than he actually is. 

And in the overall scheme of things, does this count, since the person we see we have no means of knowing anyway. I think what Dylan does is is revealing the whole "artificiality" of the relationship between an artist and his audience. The gap that neither party can cross, and by recognizing this it has the effect of making us closer, more genuine? Just an idea, y know I have to keep my mind busy, but maybe these are just words.

[Sir Rob]

Here's another tiny example - everyone knows (or assumes?) that Dylan was born on the 24th May 1941.  Yet the cover of the lyrics booklet which accompanies the Bootleg Series box set is taken up with a picture of (presumably?) Dylan's hand resting on a table next to an open copy of his passport(?) containing his photograph.  Only thing is a different day is given as his birth date and also, if I remember rightly, there was some speculation about whether the height given was correct.  I think it makes him out to be a few inches taller than he actually is. 

And in the overall scheme of things, does this count, since the person we see we have no means of knowing anyway. I think what Dylan does is is revealing the whole "artificiality" of the relationship between an artist and his audience. The gap that neither party can cross, and by recognizing this it has the effect of making us closer, more genuine? Just an idea, y know I have to keep my mind busy, but maybe these are just words.

I must admit I never think too deeply about these matters other than to think:  "Mystery = public interest = money."  But maybe you're right - maybe in everything he does he's exploring the relationship between an artist, his celebrity and his audience. 

[zelilgirlI1cenu]

Well seeing that he seems to have the pulse on the absurdities of life, I guess this might be or have been an issue of concern to him, just one that artists rarely reveal perhaps.

[donald]

Sheriff John, you were not hallucinating......you did see a certain Mr. Howard as my avatar for a moment