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Author Topic: My theory on what helped "kill" the group  (Read 16738 times)
shelter
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« Reply #75 on: March 04, 2008, 06:01:10 AM »

Know what killed The Beach Boys? Time. How many bands from the early 60s can you name that are still going strong with all the original members?
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Jonas
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« Reply #76 on: March 04, 2008, 10:48:09 AM »

Quote
Revolver has it's moments, and the following albums do as well. I'm just saying that the Beatles got to a point where their music was excessive and didn't have the freshness that it once had. The Beach Boys on the other hand in the late 60s kept making great albums whether they were commercially successful or not. I mean think about it, in 1968 the Beatles put out the 'White Album' which some consider a masterpiece, the Beach Boys put out 'Friends', great album but a flop, in 1969 the Beatles put out 'Abbey Road', the Beach Boys did '20/20'; Even though the Beach Boys grew their hair like (like everyone did) they never gave into the excessiveness of the era. And it would have been a terrible thing if the Beach Boys broke up at that time because the world wouldn't have seen the possibilities of what they produced.
I actually agree with most every thing you said, except one thing... they sure as hell did fall victim to the era's excessiveness. Two Words. Charles. Manson.
It certainly takes some balls to be this blunt, but ya gotta give this kid some props! LOL

I agree with a lot that he said too...
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John
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« Reply #77 on: March 04, 2008, 11:24:00 AM »

I don't agree at all, but I'm willing to leave it at that. I'm not actually a massive fan of Abbey Road - too much McCartney and McCartney-sounding Harrison to me. That could be construed as stale, but Revolver is fresh as a daisy. Only Good Day Sunshine (and to a lesser extent Doctor Robert) are even vaguely bum tracksto my ears. If they'd replaced them with Paperback Writer and Rain...wow!
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« Reply #78 on: March 04, 2008, 11:23:17 PM »

Abbey Road is ok but I don't like it as much as what went before. It's too cute for it's own good and has much more of a 70's soft rock vibe to it. Lennon's stuff on it is nice, and Oh Darlin isn't bad. I like George's songs on Let It Be better.
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Jason Penick
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« Reply #79 on: March 05, 2008, 12:54:51 AM »

Abbey Road is ok but I don't like it as much as what went before. It's too cute for it's own good and has much more of a 70's soft rock vibe to it. Lennon's stuff on it is nice, and Oh Darlin isn't bad. I like George's songs on Let It Be better.

"For You Blue" and "I Me Mine" over "Something" and "Here Comes the Sun"?  I expect you'll catch as much flack over this opinion as I do when I try to convince people MIU is a great album!   LOL
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SUICIDE
It only makes things worse. You can't solve anything by killing yourself. I mean, things can only get better, but if you're dead, they may not. -- Brian Wilson
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« Reply #80 on: March 05, 2008, 04:48:49 AM »

Here Comes The Sun and Something are a little middle of the road for my taste. Nice melodies but I like something that moves. I think For You Blue is very funky and cool, I Me Mine just is different and catchy. George and the Beatles never did another song quite like it except for perhaps Try Some Buy Some.
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John
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« Reply #81 on: March 05, 2008, 08:01:25 AM »

While both Abbey Road Harrisongs are technically superior, I'd rather listen to I. Me. Mine.
"70s soft-rock" is a good term for Abbey Road. Except for the Lennon songs, it's pretty MOR.
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KokoMoses
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« Reply #82 on: March 27, 2008, 12:59:50 AM »

Dennis would be recognized as a Beach Boy to many, even if they didn't know which one.

I always had the impression that the band respected and treated the side men well.  They were always recognizing and mentioning, for example, even on record, Mike Meros or Ed Carter.    I saw Billy do Wipe Out once and the Crowd went wild.  Carl and Mike enjoyed the applause as much as Billy, it seemed.  (my memory says Billy, pretty sure thats who it was).  The band had fill ins and session players almost from the get-go, starting with Glen Campbell.
Not to mention the Al, then Dave, then Al switcheroo.

I dunno, I sorta agree with you guys on all this, but I kinda think of Billy, Ed, Bobby, Carly as a part of the Beach Boys and not just "non beach Boys".... They where with those guys so long that they really were all A BAND and not just the Beach Boys and some other guys.
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KokoMoses
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« Reply #83 on: March 31, 2008, 07:56:36 AM »

I think what killed the group is the moment that Brian decided to stay home and not tour. No knock against Brian for that, but it caused a splintering that few bands have ever had to deal with, both in a personal sense and public-image-wise. From then on it was "Brian Wilson and the other guys who did/sang everything he told them to". Add to that the myth that the wrecking crew played on everything and you're looking at a recipe for disaster. Nothing the other BBs ever did was treated fairly unless Brian was the mastermind, and everything Brian did was measured up against Pet Sounds/Good Vibrations anway, so how could they ever win? The Beach Boys really didn't ever deal with any problems other famous bands haven't, but those bands have mostly presented a much more unified front, and a more of an us-against-them image that the BBs had no hope in really putting up..... This is something of a simplification, I admit, but I honestly believe the base idea of what I'm saying.
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Chris Brown
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« Reply #84 on: March 31, 2008, 11:59:42 AM »

I think what killed the group is the moment that Brian decided to stay home and not tour. No knock against Brian for that, but it caused a splintering that few bands have ever had to deal with, both in a personal sense and public-image-wise. From then on it was "Brian Wilson and the other guys who did/sang everything he told them to". Add to that the myth that the wrecking crew played on everything and you're looking at a recipe for disaster. Nothing the other BBs ever did was treated fairly unless Brian was the mastermind, and everything Brian did was measured up against Pet Sounds/Good Vibrations anway, so how could they ever win? The Beach Boys really didn't ever deal with any problems other famous bands haven't, but those bands have mostly presented a much more unified front, and a more of an us-against-them image that the BBs had no hope in really putting up..... This is something of a simplification, I admit, but I honestly believe the base idea of what I'm saying.

I get what you're saying, but I almost completely disagree with you.  Brian's decision to quit the road directly led to the most artistic period in their history, really the only period during which they were taken seriously as a creative musical entity.  Keep in mind that the "Brian and his puppets" notion helped make the band more interesting (especially over in the UK).  And during that period, that idea had a lot of truth to it...they weren't exactly Brian's puppets, but Brian was in complete creative control during that time, and the main contributions the boys made were vocal.  Yes, their role is often understated, but it is hard to deny that at least the first few years of Brian's retirement from the road were exremely fruitful for the group artistically, and that Brian should receive 90% of the credit for that.

I just don't see how a decision that led to such a prolific (if not short lived) period of artistic growth can be seen as something that "killed" the group.  If anything killed the group as a creative entity, it was Endless Summer, along with Brian's descent into mental illness and drug addiction.
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Pretty Funky
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« Reply #85 on: March 31, 2008, 01:43:54 PM »

What killed the group? Tell that to this crowd at the Mike and Bruce show last weekend. LOL



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« Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 01:46:15 PM by TheOther Anonymous » Logged
MBE
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« Reply #86 on: March 31, 2008, 08:26:21 PM »

I think what killed the group is the moment that Brian decided to stay home and not tour. No knock against Brian for that, but it caused a splintering that few bands have ever had to deal with, both in a personal sense and public-image-wise. From then on it was "Brian Wilson and the other guys who did/sang everything he told them to". Add to that the myth that the wrecking crew played on everything and you're looking at a recipe for disaster. Nothing the other BBs ever did was treated fairly unless Brian was the mastermind, and everything Brian did was measured up against Pet Sounds/Good Vibrations anway, so how could they ever win? The Beach Boys really didn't ever deal with any problems other famous bands haven't, but those bands have mostly presented a much more unified front, and a more of an us-against-them image that the BBs had no hope in really putting up..... This is something of a simplification, I admit, but I honestly believe the base idea of what I'm saying.

I think the moment people started writing anti Mike things in the late seventies was a big hinderence. Once he got on the defensive it made him a lot harder to work with then before.
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KokoMoses
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« Reply #87 on: March 31, 2008, 10:54:39 PM »

I think what killed the group is the moment that Brian decided to stay home and not tour. No knock against Brian for that, but it caused a splintering that few bands have ever had to deal with, both in a personal sense and public-image-wise. From then on it was "Brian Wilson and the other guys who did/sang everything he told them to". Add to that the myth that the wrecking crew played on everything and you're looking at a recipe for disaster. Nothing the other BBs ever did was treated fairly unless Brian was the mastermind, and everything Brian did was measured up against Pet Sounds/Good Vibrations anway, so how could they ever win? The Beach Boys really didn't ever deal with any problems other famous bands haven't, but those bands have mostly presented a much more unified front, and a more of an us-against-them image that the BBs had no hope in really putting up..... This is something of a simplification, I admit, but I honestly believe the base idea of what I'm saying.

I get what you're saying, but I almost completely disagree with you.  Brian's decision to quit the road directly led to the most artistic period in their history, really the only period during which they were taken seriously as a creative musical entity.  Keep in mind that the "Brian and his puppets" notion helped make the band more interesting (especially over in the UK).  And during that period, that idea had a lot of truth to it...they weren't exactly Brian's puppets, but Brian was in complete creative control during that time, and the main contributions the boys made were vocal.  Yes, their role is often understated, but it is hard to deny that at least the first few years of Brian's retirement from the road were exremely fruitful for the group artistically, and that Brian should receive 90% of the credit for that.

I just don't see how a decision that led to such a prolific (if not short lived) period of artistic growth can be seen as something that "killed" the group.  If anything killed the group as a creative entity, it was Endless Summer, along with Brian's descent into mental illness and drug addiction.



I think this is a case of both points being correct. I only mean what I said in the sense that it splintered the group in ways that other bands didn't have to deal with, thus making the normal pressures and BS harder to navigate.... For example, The Who all had problems with Townsend, grumbled and griped (to an extent) about Tommy and other things, but they were still THE WHO!!!! Meaning they were still four guys against the world and presented a strong unified front for their fans and public. I mean, how many arguments do you ever overhear about how worthless any member of the Who is in comparison to Townsend? Ok, Same with the Stones. For all their problems, they're always The Stones! Charlie Watts, Bill Wyman, Ron Wood all get treated fairly and with respect with no one slamming them for this or that, and these guys can't claim a fraction of the creative input that ALL the Beach Boys have shared. Even Mike. So, I stand by my original point but have to throw in lazy rock writers, Jan Wenner, David Leaf, and others for helping create so much of the BBs bulls#@!

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