Songs with NO Love

[Mark H.]

Ok, this is a mean topic!

AND, we're looking to be dragged into court here!

The Beach Boys were never really a traditional, who wrote what, played what insturment, band. Above all, they were a vocal group whos incredible blend of voices was/is beyond magical. Even if Mike didn't write the lyrics to all the listed songs, so what? He still sang all over most of those songs and helped "sell" them as so wonderful.

C'mon, why not keep this up and make a list of songs that Dennis contributed nothing to whatsoever!!! I mean, why not?

Quit hating on Mike.

Hating Mike has been a hobby of mine for the last 30 years....don't ask me to give it up now!   

[PongHit]

Ok, this is a mean topic!
AND, we're looking to be dragged into court here!
The Beach Boys were never really a traditional, who wrote what, played what insturment, band. Above all, they were a vocal group whos incredible blend of voices was/is beyond magical. Even if Mike didn't write the lyrics to all the listed songs, so what? He still sang all over most of those songs and helped "sell" them as so wonderful.
C'mon, why not keep this up and make a list of songs that Dennis contributed nothing to whatsoever!!! I mean, why not?
Quit hating on Mike.

I started this thread -- & my motivation has nothing to do with being 'mean' to, nor with 'hating on' Mike.  Instead, I was thinking about how the general perception seems to be: 'Brian wrote the music, & Mike wrote the lyrics.'  So I thought it would be interesting to see a list of titles with lyrics NOT by Mike -- the exceptions to the rule, so to speak.  I, in fact, give it up to Mike for some great lyrics for some of the biggest hits & coolest tunes (Get Around, Rhonda, Warmth Of The Sun, etc.)

I don't hate Love.

Oh, & BTW, we can make a list of non-Dennis songs if you'd like, but it doesn't make as much sense to me because Dennis doesn't have the reputation as the band's main lyrics-writer, dig?

[PongHit]

P.S. For me, the B-Boys are *NOT* 'above all' a vocal group...  In fact, what got me hooked originally were all the instrumental takes on the PET SOUNDS boxed set...  I listened to tons of B-Boy music with NO VOCALS (Stack O'Tracks album, etc.) long before I moved into the vocal stuff.  What keeps me in orbit of this music year after year is not the vocal performances (altho they are often amazing), but the structure of the compositions.

[KokoMoses]

Props on the musical composition quote. I just meant that the Beach Boys vocals and harmonic blend have always been their bread and butter. Just my opinion. But then again, how many bands can go and release backing tracks with no vocals and have people lap it all up with glee? So, you have a major point there.

As for needing to tear down Mike for being perceived as having written all the lyrics!!! I don't know where or when he's ever been perceived that way anywhere beyond 1964. (but then even in the early days he was denied credit for lyrics he did indeed write) Ask almost anyone and Mike is written off as a no talent asshole who's main goal in life is to leech off Brian's genius. Tony Asher and Van Dyke Parks, and to a lesser extent Gary Usher, are all considered lyrical geniuses, but the guy who wrote the lyrics to what is widely considered the greatest pop single of all-time, as well as several songs that have come to define the California mythos to the rest of the world, is considered garbage. Sure, Mike's attitude has gone a long way to making people simply want to hate him, but if any of us were in his shoes we'd probably behave in even worse ways.

[KokoMoses]

P.S. For me, the B-Boys are *NOT* 'above all' a vocal group...  In fact, what got me hooked originally were all the instrumental takes on the PET SOUNDS boxed set...  I listened to tons of B-Boy music with NO VOCALS (Stack O'Tracks album, etc.) long before I moved into the vocal stuff.  What keeps me in orbit of this music year after year is not the vocal performances (altho they are often amazing), but the structure of the compositions.

i just wanted to clarify. I simply meant that the Beach Boys ARE different from almost any other band because we don't necessarily attach and affix each member to a respective insturment but rather what they contributed writing-wise and vocal vise.... as well as insturmentaly.

[mikeyj]

Tony Asher and Van Dyke Parks, and to a lesser extent Gary Usher, are all considered lyrical geniuses

I don't know if those guys are considered "lyrical geniuses", but yeah I agree Mike does receive very little credit in comparison from a lot of people. I honestly do appreciate Mike's contribution a lot more these days, but he honestly has brought a lot of this "Mike hating" on himself.

but the guy who wrote the lyrics to what is widely considered the greatest pop single of all-time, as well as several songs that have come to define the California mythos to the rest of the world, is considered garbage.

I'm assuming you are referring to Good Vibrations? You might disagree but as far as I'm concerned, the lyrics have very little to do with it being hailed as the greatest single of all time. Mike Love was capable of FAR better lyrics.

[Mark H.]

Sure, Mike's attitude has gone a long way to making people simply want to hate him, but if any of us were in his shoes we'd probably behave in even worse ways.

We might not on the other hand!   

[KokoMoses]

sure..... well..... and yeah..... but...... none of use were in the Beach Boys for 40 years. Mike was.

Ever had a spat/disagreement/feud/money issue with a family member or close friend....

No? Oh, ok, then Mike must be the only one.

Ever been in a band? If so, have you ever had an issue/argument/credit disagreement/money issue with any former or current band members?

No? Must just be Mike.

If the answer to any of the above questions is a yes.... none of us know about it or care/have an opinion about it because you didn't have to go through any of it in public.

[KokoMoses]

"I'm assuming you are referring to Good Vibrations? You might disagree but as far as I'm concerned, the lyrics have very little to do with it being hailed as the greatest single of all time. Mike Love was capable of FAR better lyrics."

yeah, the actual words aren't the greatest ever written, but man, when the chorus kicks in and the bass drops down to that low note right in synch with the "I'm pickin up good vibtrations" line...... !!!!!! Pure genius!

[Jason]

Sure, Mike's attitude has gone a long way to making people simply want to hate him, but if any of us were in his shoes we'd probably behave in even worse ways.

I'm a Mike supporter, hell, I have this handle, but that is by far one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read. If I were in Mike's shoes I'd behave WORSE?!? Come on, dude......don't f*** with the formula. Mike's a person, we're all people here. We'll all make mistakes.

Ok, I'll put myself in Michael's shoes. Multimillionaire frontman to one of the most acclaimed bands ever. Married several times. Several children. Everybody hates me, nobody likes me, I think I'll go eat dirt.

RIGHT. Michael isn't the evil guy that everyone makes him out to be. He's just a businessman who happens to front the Beach Boys. Everyone here had better give him and Carl props for keeping the band going as long as it did without Brian's creative input.

And remember the biggest, most nausea-inducing truth (to the blind and closed-minded) of them all - Brian Wilson's biggest fan is Michael E. Love. Learn it. Know it. Live it. You'll feel MUCH better.

[Ian Mansfield]

All of you lack the clear intelligence to understand that with out Mike, Brian was a composer!  He was the George Gerswhin of  pop music in the 60's if he didnt have Mike to help him put those words to the songs.  Yeah I'm gonna take alot of heat for this post but I hope all of you realize they were a team!  Alot of you brian fans never seem to realize this, They were both GREAT at what they did!  Stop hating on Mike, and stop singing his lyrics that you sing everyday and you know you do it!

[Chris Brown]

All of you lack the clear intelligence to understand that with out Mike, Brian was a composer!  He was the George Gerswhin of  pop music in the 60's if he didnt have Mike to help him put those words to the songs.  Yeah I'm gonna take alot of heat for this post but I hope all of you realize they were a team!  Alot of you brian fans never seem to realize this, They were both GREAT at what they did!  Stop hating on Mike, and stop singing his lyrics that you sing everyday and you know you do it!

I agree with you to a point...Brian and Mike did some excellent work together, no doubt about it.  Its just that when Brian started moving in a more artistic/less commercial direction, Mike wasn't the right person to write with anymore.  Brian did fantastic work with a number of lyricists, not just Mike.  His work with Tony Asher and Van Dyke Parks is among the most celebrated of his career.  Its not as if Mike was the only way Brian could achieve musical greatness (that's not to say that Mike and Brian didn't do some excellent work together too).

As a side note, what exactly do you mean by "you Brian fans"?  Is that meant to imply that you are not a "Brian fan" or are you referring to those commonly known as "Brianistas"?

[Jason]

I don't think it is so black and white. Both Brian and Mike had their ideas and their input. Credit them both. They were and are great at what they did. While I'm not a Brianista supporter (feelin' blueeeeeeeeeeeee), this very right-wing Mike post by Mr. Mansfield is a wee bit condescending.

You can make an argument for Michael without having to diss the whole of Briandom.

But in the end it won't change many minds.

[Mark H.]

THE THREAD!!!

Live it, love it, get over it!

[Jason]

THE THREAD!!!

Live it, love it, get over it!

That's probably a jab at me but it's very true. I still don't know why we bicker over Mike and Brian, this and that, Smile or Kokomo......can't we just listen to the music?

[Mark H.]

Not a jab....just a reality in the world of the BBs.

[Jason]

I firmly believe that this forum should have subforums for all of the band members. All of the Beach Boys deserve proper discussions, not "who did this" and "that jerk did that" stuff that seems to go around. Constructive discussions about the MUSIC, their techniques, the MUSIC, their playing, and did I mention the MUSIC?!?

Seriously.....Joe, Klaas, Billy, Chuck - consider this idea. Subforums for each of the members, while keeping this General forum for band discussions and such.

[Mark H.]

Wouldn't feel like a family if there wasn't some bickering going on....man don't seperate anything!

Love him or hate him....all roads to the Beach Boys travel through Mr. Love.

[the captain]

I firmly believe that this forum should have subforums for all of the band members. All of the Beach Boys deserve proper discussions, not "who did this" and "that jerk did that" stuff that seems to go around. Constructive discussions about the MUSIC, their techniques, the MUSIC, their playing, and did I mention the MUSIC?!?

Seriously.....Joe, Klaas, Billy, Chuck - consider this idea. Subforums for each of the members, while keeping this General forum for band discussions and such.

You'd have every "band" discussion becoming a convo about the individuals, and every convo about the individuals becoming one about the band. The subjects aren't clear-cut enough to keep separate. Hell, most of the people around here seem to struggle separating Beach Boys general discussions, things like youtube links, and non-Beach Boys general music discussions. I'd hate to see the cross pollination your suggestion would create.

Let everyone bicker a little.

[Jason]

I guess that's probably best.....as long as we keep to the music.

[KokoMoses]

Wouldn't feel like a family if there wasn't some bickering going on....man don't seperate anything!

Love him or hate him....all roads to the Beach Boys travel through Mr. Love.

as much as I disagree with you, that is a genius quote!!!

Oh, and if you're gonna hate Mike for having spats/disagreements with Brian, it's probably best not to have a picture of George up there I mean, he had a deep seething HATRED for Paul during MOST of the Beatle's career, so, why not go hate George?.....

Uh, must correct myself. We're not on a Beatle's board, are we? ;p

[KokoMoses]

I would love to just stick to the music, but all this Mike/Brian BS is just too entrenched in the grooves, so to speak, and it will never be resolved.

Someone on this board mentioned elsewhere that people are constantly trying to separate Brian from the Beach Boys, and it's true. The "Brian Nazis" (my term, I'll accept any and all punches) seem to want history to be Brian writing, recording, playing, singing, performing everything all by himself, and this kind of thing admittedly annoys Brian even. People like David Leaf will fawn over Dennis but will still treat him and the other BBs as if their thoughts, opinions, contributions, performances, LIVES, were mere afterthoughts/obstacles to Brians accomplishments. It sucks and it's the main reason why The Beach Boys are frequently written off as second rate Beatles wannabes in the rock history books, not Mike's horrendous yellow sportcoats.... it's also irritating how people constantly slam Mike and Bruce for touring and for somehow being a mere nostalgia wagon. Now, why on earth should they NOT be touring? The material they tour around is damm powerfull stuff. Even the early hits are earth-shattering as far as the impact they've had on western culture. If you'd written/co-written/sang/played/performed, or had any hand at all in such material's creation, you'd perform it too every chance you got and you'd be damm proud of it!!!

[Ian Mansfield]

Your lucky your a friend of mine lol, no I did not mean to be or come off as condescending in anyway, though those that know me know i have slight bit of preference towards Dr. Love, I will never ever in a million years discredit Brian in anyway for his contributions to The Beach Boys while he was in the Beach Boys.  There will always be a Mike and Brian debate, while it does always seem to get old sometimes there is just no other s h i t to talk about.  And getting back to the original idea of this thread brian did have some great songs that Mike did not write on, but i find the list to extremely skewed as alot of those songs brian did not write and the band covered, this would be open for better debate if songs like fools, john b, then i kissed her, were not included on the list.  And Mr. Beach Boy do the briansta's know that you have adopted a pro Mike Love alter ego??  Bluebird would go nuts if she found out!

[carl r]

IThe material they tour around is damm powerfull stuff. Even the early hits are earth-shattering as far as the impact they've had on western culture. If you'd written/co-written/sang/played/performed, or had any hand at all in such material's creation, you'd perform it too every chance you got and you'd be damm proud of it!!!

Yes the material is powerful stuff there's no doubt about that. The setlist looks good to me.

Set against that, lets take the canned synth sound, the singing-over-playback, John Stamos, the corporate nature of the Beach Boys from the late 70s onwards, Bruce.

So Mike Love's "End of the Pier" Beach Boys - they're a good laugh, but not for everybody, especially if you like Brian's songs from 66 onwards.

[KokoMoses]

IThe material they tour around is damm powerfull stuff. Even the early hits are earth-shattering as far as the impact they've had on western culture. If you'd written/co-written/sang/played/performed, or had any hand at all in such material's creation, you'd perform it too every chance you got and you'd be damm proud of it!!!

Yes the material is powerful stuff there's no doubt about that. The setlist looks good to me.

Set against that, lets take the canned synth sound, the singing-over-playback, John Stamos, the corporate nature of the Beach Boys from the late 70s onwards, Bruce.

So Mike Love's "End of the Pier" Beach Boys - they're a good laugh, but not for everybody, especially if you like Brian's songs from 66 onwards.


Ok, well, if you don't care for Mike/Bruce's act, go see Brian and enjoy living in a free country. And I'm not defending whatever silly trappings come along with Mike/Bruce's thing, just their right to do it. And let's just see how cool me and you are when we're 65 years old. Think about it. The Beach Boys were never hip to begin with so, why should Mike care about any of that garbage? I've seen Brian several times in recent years, and while wonderful, it's just not the same without hearing ALL FIVE of the Beach Boys voices blending. Same thing with Mike/Bruce. But, you can't go back in time, so I'll take the wondermints and Brian, and I'll take Mike/Bruce. They're all just keeping this wonderful music alive. We're talking 40 years down the line here. Give these guys, and not just Brian, a break!

And on the subject of Brian's songs from 66 onward, you must only be talking about Smile cause Mike's all over the BBs output 66 and beyond, as well as before, but don't let me burst any bubbles here.