Chronology of Dennis Wilson's recordings with the Beach Boys/pre-POB solo work

[Alex]

4) "Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again" Surf’s Up Outtake

 I've not heard 4. 

Not even Adam Marsland's version? (The only one that's ever been released, legally or illegally)

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Re: 4) "Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again" Surf’s Up Outtake

I haven't heard it - it is unreleased and unbooted but AGD and Alan Boyd have.  Apparently, it's 7 minutes long; but read for yourself:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,4546.0.html

[Andrew G. Doe]

Version I heard was nothing like 7 minutes, and what I heard was the 'finished' version. Same length as Adam's excellent rendition, give or take a few seconds.

[adamghost]

Version I heard was nothing like 7 minutes, and what I heard was the 'finished' version. Same length as Adam's excellent rendition, give or take a few seconds.

Actually, not true.  We did omit (or else we could not have fit it in the live set, plus it kind of made the song drag a bit in the middle) a long and repetitive guitar solo that fell between (IIRC) the second and third "B" sections of the song.  The theory is it was a "placeholder" solo by Carl that never got redone, since it's basically the same three notes over and over.  Other than that, though, it's pretty faithful to the original, though Dennis' version was a whole step down from ours.

Thanks for the kind words!  Hard to go wrong with Evie Sands on a lead vocal.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Aloha AGD - re: the seven minutes, I was using info posted by Alan Boyd in last years "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again" thread on this board.  Sounds like you heard a edited version.  Interesting that it has been mixed and edited down to 4 some minutes but never released.  What are they waiting for???

The original track lasts for about 7 minutes, with most of the the band winding down and Charles Lloyd continuing jamming on his flute (s) til he just....kinda..... eventually.... stops.

Sounded like a fun session.

[DonnaK]

Aloha AGD - re: the seven minutes, I was using info posted by Alan Boyd in last years "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again" thread on this board.  Sounds like you heard a edited version.  Interesting that it has been mixed and edited down to 4 some minutes but never released.  What are they waiting for???

The original track lasts for about 7 minutes, with most of the the band winding down and Charles Lloyd continuing jamming on his flute (s) til he just....kinda..... eventually.... stops.

Sounded like a fun session.

   I totally agree with you Surfrider, if you're going to do it, (the re=release), DO IT!!!! Dennis said to know him, we should listen to his music !!  I think that Dennis would want you to blow some minds along the way with this!To the powers that be on this great once in a lifetime project, let us have it ALL!!! We may never again get the chance to hear all of Dennis' music if you don't do it NOW!! Life is too short, and us fans that knew Dennis when, are pushing 60+ and I for one, don't want to wait any longer. I'm only a few years short of the drool cup as it is!! How hard would it be to let us hear it all?
Thanks, I feel better now.

[Jon Stebbins]

Aloha AGD - re: the seven minutes, I was using info posted by Alan Boyd in last years "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again" thread on this board.  Sounds like you heard a edited version.  Interesting that it has been mixed and edited down to 4 some minutes but never released.  What are they waiting for???

The original track lasts for about 7 minutes, with most of the the band winding down and Charles Lloyd continuing jamming on his flute (s) til he just....kinda..... eventually.... stops.

Sounded like a fun session.

   I totally agree with you Surfrider, if you're going to do it, (the re=release), DO IT!!!! Dennis said to know him, we should listen to his music !!  I think that Dennis would want you to blow some minds along the way with this!To the powers that be on this great once in a lifetime project, let us have it ALL!!! We may never again get the chance to hear all of Dennis' music if you don't do it NOW!! Life is too short, and us fans that knew Dennis when, are pushing 60+ and I for one, don't want to wait any longer. I'm only a few years short of the drool cup as it is!! How hard would it be to let us hear it all?
Thanks, I feel better now.

WIBNTLA is a Beach Boys track from 1970 or '71. There are NO Beach Boys recordings on the Dennis Wilson POB/Bambu release that is coming in May on Sony. It is all solo Caribou era DW from '75 to '79 and its fantastic. There I've said it again...sigh. The people who are putting out the forthcoming DW solo release have zero rights to the Beach Boys material. BRI on the other hand has had every opportunity to include WIBNTLA on a BB"s release for many many years...and they have chosen not to. Direct your request for this song to Brian, Mike, Al and Carl's estate because they (BRI) are the ones who own it's release rights. Thanks, I feel better now.

[melissalynn]

There I've said it again...sigh.

Someday people will (hopefully) catch on, Jon...but until then....looks like ya gotta keep repeating yourself.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Aloha AGD - re: the seven minutes, I was using info posted by Alan Boyd in last years "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again" thread on this board.  Sounds like you heard a edited version.  Interesting that it has been mixed and edited down to 4 some minutes but never released.  What are they waiting for???

The original track lasts for about 7 minutes, with most of the the band winding down and Charles Lloyd continuing jamming on his flute (s) til he just....kinda..... eventually.... stops.

Sounded like a fun session.

   I totally agree with you Surfrider, if you're going to do it, (the re=release), DO IT!!!! Dennis said to know him, we should listen to his music !!  I think that Dennis would want you to blow some minds along the way with this!To the powers that be on this great once in a lifetime project, let us have it ALL!!! We may never again get the chance to hear all of Dennis' music if you don't do it NOW!! Life is too short, and us fans that knew Dennis when, are pushing 60+ and I for one, don't want to wait any longer. I'm only a few years short of the drool cup as it is!! How hard would it be to let us hear it all?
Thanks, I feel better now.

WIBNTLA is a Beach Boys track from 1970 or '71. There are NO Beach Boys recordings on the Dennis Wilson POB/Bambu release that is coming in May on Sony. It is all solo Caribou era DW from '75 to '79 and its fantastic. There I've said it again...sigh. The people who are putting out the forthcoming DW solo release have zero rights to the Beach Boys material. BRI on the other hand has had every opportunity to include WIBNTLA on a BB"s release for many many years...and they have chosen not to. Direct your request for this song to Brian, Mike, Al and Carl's estate because they (BRI) are the ones who own it's release rights. Thanks, I feel better now.

Aloha Jon - I'm a big Dennis supporter and reader of your work (my copy of "The Lost BB" arrived today from Amazon) but.....  please note that I have made this thread completely separate from POB/Bambu.  And referenced only BRI and Capital in regards to releases.  I think the post from Donna was about the mixing of WIBNTLA down from the seven minute play-out.  Think she meant that if it's good enough to mix, then it should be released.

But to your point, I'm told/read that 'important BRI/BB inner circle types" read this board. Alan Boyd, BRI historian posts here.  Send me effective email addresses for Brian, Mike, Al and Carl's estate and I'll start a campaign.  Otherwise, I don't know what to do but post in places like here. 

By the by, why BRI is happy with all these boots going around (BRI - please see the Doors, Dead, Beatles Anthology to name a few) makes no sense from an economic point of view.  But that argument is ages old.

My thread started with "Overcome with anticipation of the upcoming release of "POB/Bambu", I came up with a 77 minute chronology of Dennis Wilson's recordings with the Beach Boys.  Wildly dreaming that "POB/Bambu" will sell well enough that BRI/Capitol will release a 2 CD DW/BB chronology with these songs above plus unreleased live performances, studio tracks and demos."

Again, my hope is that POB/Bambu will do well and 'BRI" will do something smart - that is release a record that has Dennis Wilson's unreleased Beach Boy work.  I think there were two genius's in the Beach Boys and agree Dennis doesn't get the 'hype' he deserves.  In any event,  big Mahalos for all your efforts.  I highly doubt we wouldn't be seeing anything happen if it weren't for you!

[smile-holland]

WIBNTLA is a Beach Boys track from 1970 or '71. There are NO Beach Boys recordings on the Dennis Wilson POB/Bambu release that is coming in May on Sony. It is all solo Caribou era DW from '75 to '79 and its fantastic. There I've said it again...sigh. The people who are putting out the forthcoming DW solo release have zero rights to the Beach Boys material. BRI on the other hand has had every opportunity to include WIBNTLA on a BB"s release for many many years...and they have chosen not to. Direct your request for this song to Brian, Mike, Al and Carl's estate because they (BRI) are the ones who own it's release rights. Thanks, I feel better now.

 

I think that now finally an interesting and important part of the DW archives are going to be opened (apart from the fact that POB gets it's well deserved re-release) makes many a fan wishing for more. Overhere they would say (Dutch saying): "Give them a finger, and they want to take your whole hand!" 

[8o8o]

WIBNTLA is a Beach Boys track from 1970 or '71. There are NO Beach Boys recordings on the Dennis Wilson POB/Bambu release that is coming in May on Sony. It is all solo Caribou era DW from '75 to '79 and its fantastic. There I've said it again...sigh. The people who are putting out the forthcoming DW solo release have zero rights to the Beach Boys material. BRI on the other hand has had every opportunity to include WIBNTLA on a BB"s release for many many years...and they have chosen not to. Direct your request for this song to Brian, Mike, Al and Carl's estate because they (BRI) are the ones who own it's release rights. Thanks, I feel better now.

 

I think that now finally an interesting and important part of the DW archives are going to be opened (apart from the fact that POB gets it's well deserved re-release) makes many a fan wishing for more. Overhere they would say (Dutch saying): "Give them a finger, and they want to take your whole hand!" 

Haha, can't deny that Dennis had really beautiful 'hands'.... 

[DonnaK]

Sorry for the misunderstanding Jon. Surfrider's last post says it all!! Didn't mean to step on any toes. I am anxiously awaiting the release in May and your updated book on Dennis. I just want all I can get of Dennis' music and I'm sure all his fans do as well. As long as the archives are open, let's get them all out. We just don't know who has what. I too will be more than happy to get on the campaign to Brian and whomever else has the rights to the music.
Thanks.

[c-man]

[I think that now finally an interesting and important part of the DW archives are going to be opened (apart from the fact that POB gets it's well deserved re-release) makes many a fan wishing for more. Overhere they would say (Dutch saying): "Give them a finger, and they want to take your whole hand!" 


[/quote]

Ha...over here (the USA), it's "Give 'em an inch, and they want a mile".  Same meaning! 

[Roger Ryan]

[I think that now finally an interesting and important part of the DW archives are going to be opened (apart from the fact that POB gets it's well deserved re-release) makes many a fan wishing for more. Overhere they would say (Dutch saying): "Give them a finger, and they want to take your whole hand!" 

Ha...over here (the USA), it's "Give 'em an inch, and they want a mile".  Same meaning! 
[/quote]

...I guess in Europe that would translate as "Give 'em a centimeter and they'll want a kilometer" 

[Jonas]

Right on, Donna!

[Jon Stebbins]

Surf Rider and Donna...no toes stepped on here. I'm only trying to inform you that the Beach Boys or BRI or Mike or Brian or that crowd...THEY are the reason Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again is not with the fans. I think that's an interesting point to consider. There were missed opportunities...it could have been on Warmth of the Sun if they wanted it to be there. Some element of that equation does not want it released I would think. However, the "powers that be" that have put together the DW POB/Bambu package have struggled long and hard to make this happen. It was quite a tangle, but instead of saying its too much trouble, certain people pressed ahead and made it happen. If the Beach Boys had done the same we'd have all of that unreleased early '70's Dennis music to enjoy(and it would have been a thousand times easier for them to do it!)

I do appreciate the kind words and the passion that fans like you bring to the proceedings. Thanks for participating and for being loyal DW fans...that means a lot to me. I think this new 2 CD set is going to make you very happy. Cross your fingers that it finds a smooth path to release.

[DonnaK]

Thanks so much for replying Jon, that means alot to ME! Please pass on my sincerest thanks to the "powers" behind this project. As you say, it could've been left behind where it was. I'm very grateful for the release and your update on your book. Please keep us informed on that as well.  I guess I just got caught up in the excitement of wanting it all!!!

Will there be another book signing event with the updated book? If so, let us know when it gets close. I have a plane ticket to buy!!!

Thanks again Jon, you are the best!

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Questions for Jon Stebbins – * CAVEAT: Jon, sorry to rehash what’s already in your book (my apologies as I don’t remember and my brother lost my copy).

Did Daryl Dragon give extensive interviews to you regarding  his work with Dennis?  I ask as there have been various posts recently regarding the number of solo albums Dennis actually recorded.
 
Looks like Dennis began solo recording in 1967 and that his work with Dragon wound down in 1972.
So, would solo album #1 come from that time period?

And was an actual full-blown album (Hubba Hubba?) actually finished, or nearly?  Once again my apologies for rehashing what is in your book!!!!  Looking forward to the updated edition forthcoming!

Dennis titles rumored for this period include:
Lady, Sound of Free, I Don't Know, Tune #L, Mona Kani, Tale of Man, Away, Settle Down, It's a New Day, Behold the Night, Ecology, Baby Baby.

** Caveat II – All of the above refer to BRI/Capital owned recordings and are NOT related to the upcoming POB/Bambu release or any James William Guercio, Caribou Records or Sony BMG owned recording.

[Ian]

I Don't Know was Dennis's first recording session and was probably just a chance to try his hand at making music-rather than an attempt at a releasable record.  It was made before he met Daryll Dragon.  I believe that the Dragons joined the band in the Fall of 67-when the BBs did a brief tour that October with an expanded band.  So Dennis probably didn't start recording with Daryll till sometime in 1968 at the earliest (most of their collaborations seem to have been later than 68).  I would assume, perhaps wrongly, that Dennis didn't consider a project seperate from the BBs till he had a backload of songs-probably in 70-71.  It is still a bit of a mystery exactly what transpired in 1971 that made him ask that all his songs be left off Surfs Up. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

  It is still a bit of a mystery exactly what transpired in 1971 that made him ask that all his songs be left off Surfs Up. 

I've been given to understand that he & Carl had a major fall-out over the sequencing of Surf's Up, causing Dennis to pull the almost completed "(Wouldn't It be Nice To) Live Again" and the work-in-progress that was "4th Of July". It's been positied that this was why "Student Demonstration Time" was included (the track was in the can and mixed by early November 1970). It's possible that the other late addition was "'Til I Die".

[Aegir]

I thought 4th of July was replaced by Take a Load Off Your Feet.

[DonnaK]

I still think that the "Other power's that be" should take the opportunity now, since the upcoming release of Dennis' music will surely be a hit with all of his fans, to get in on it and release the music that they have their hands on. I'm sure Brian and Al would be willing to do so, but Mike has always had a problem with Dennis. I'm sure that Mike had alot to do with Dennis' low self esteem as a solo artist. Mike was always jealous of Dennis and his looks, charm, and way with the ladies. Maybe Mike wouldn't have much of a say-so in the matter (I can only hope). Even in death, Dennis is a threat to Mike.

[Jon Stebbins]

Questions for Jon Stebbins – * CAVEAT: Jon, sorry to rehash what’s already in your book (my apologies as I don’t remember and my brother lost my copy).

Did Daryl Dragon give extensive interviews to you regarding  his work with Dennis?  I ask as there have been various posts recently regarding the number of solo albums Dennis actually recorded.
 
Looks like Dennis began solo recording in 1967 and that his work with Dragon wound down in 1972.
So, would solo album #1 come from that time period?

And was an actual full-blown album (Hubba Hubba?) actually finished, or nearly?  Once again my apologies for rehashing what is in your book!!!!  Looking forward to the updated edition forthcoming!

Dennis titles rumored for this period include:
Lady, Sound of Free, I Don't Know, Tune #L, Mona Kani, Tale of Man, Away, Settle Down, It's a New Day, Behold the Night, Ecology, Baby Baby.

** Caveat II – All of the above refer to BRI/Capital owned recordings and are NOT related to the upcoming POB/Bambu release or any James William Guercio, Caribou Records or Sony BMG owned recording.

Hi Surf Rider...
Daryl Dragon was not interviewed for my book, I approached his office in 1998 but was told he could not talk about Dennis. He has subsequently given a couple of interviews about Dennis. The most recent comments were given to David Beard who is collaborating with me on liners for the new package... these have just hit my desk...nothing revelatory.

I think solo album number one would consist of things recorded from '69 to '71.

I can say there are quite a few tracks in the can that are finished or nearly finished from that period...Desper said 90% of it was 90% done...that sounds close...but then a lot of it got released later...Barbara, Lady, some form of Cuddle Up...these would have been part of "Poops" or "Hubba Hubba" or whatever he might have called it. There may be enough if you coupled the released things with the unreleased to make a full LP.

There is a track from '77 called I Don't Know(Love Remember Me)...this is not from the Poops period.

Hope that helped.
JS

[Sheriff John Stone]

I'm sure that Mike had alot to do with Dennis' low self esteem as a solo artist. Mike was always jealous of Dennis and his looks, charm, and way with the ladies. Maybe Mike wouldn't have much of a say-so in the matter (I can only hope). Even in death, Dennis is a threat to Mike.

DonnaK, could you elaborate on how Mike Love "had alot to do with Dennis' low self esteem as a solo artist"? Some people blame Mike for keeping Dennis's songs off of Beach Boys' albums. Now you're saying that Mike also influenced Dennis's "self esteem" as a solo artist. The guy just can't win.

This is how I see it. Dennis pulled his song(s) from Surf's Up because he had a disagreement with Carl. Dennis didn't contribute to MIU because he had a disagreement with Mike and Al. Dennis didn't contribute to Keeping The Summer Alive because he was a non-recovering addict and alcoholic. Why do you think we had to wait 30 years to hear Bamboo? Because Dennis didn't finish it. And who do you blame for that?

There is no one - no one - who wanted a hit Beach Boys' record/album more than Mike Love. I still find it hard to believe that Mike would turn away a quality Dennis Wilson song if it could strengthen a Beach Boys' album. But that's just me...

On the Holland album, one of the strongest cuts is the Dennis Wilson-composed "Only With You". Who contibuted the lyrics to that song? On Pacific Ocean Blue, there is a song that is NOT about cars, girls, or surfing. It is the title track of Dennis's only solo album. Who wrote the lyrics to that song?

As far as Mike being jealous of Dennis's "way with ladies".... Add Mike Love to the list of several MILLION guys who might be jealous of their friend, classmate, teammate, bandmate, brother, or cousin's way with the ladies.

[Jonas]

On the Holland album, one of the strongest cuts is the Dennis Wilson-composed "Only With You". Who contibuted the lyrics to that song? On Pacific Ocean Blue, there is a song that is NOT about cars, girls, or surfing. It is the title track of Dennis's only solo album. Who wrote the lyrics to that song?

hear hear!