Dennis Wilson in Billboard

[Wilsonista]

Mike, I think you're correct.  Dennis released very few out-and-out clunkers whereas Brian's work from 74 onward wasn't very consistent. That's not a problem that can be pinned on the BB solely -  I can think of several BB contemporaries who have suffered similar artistic fates.

Re: Brian. I think he can be compared to John Lennon.  John hit his peak in the mid-60's.  But since the Beatles broke, his work wasn't as consitent. Plastic Ono Band (another POB) and Imagine were brilliant records (that somehow also managed to turn off many Beatles fans with its brutal honesty - sound familair?). But there also records like Some Time In NYC (IMO,Tthe worst beatles solo record. Ever).  It's like both of them intentionally pulled back from what made them Great and became woefully incinsistent and maddeningly frustrating (for their fans) artists.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

First of all, I would never compare POB to LY or LOS because they are completely different. POB is more along the lines of Holland. Musically, it is probably a step ahead of Holland. But the vocals are much better on Holland.

But even though Dennis had a rough voice in the late 70s, the one thing he never lost was the emotion behind his voice. I think he had more heart in his singing then any of the other boys.

I think POB is a solid album (for anyone, not just the BB). I wouldn't say it is a masterpiece except for River Song. The way this song way produced and arranged is amazing IMO. I would put it just below Good Vibrations, Surfs Up, Heroes and Villains and God Only Knows.

Am I the only one that is blown away by River Song?

[MBE]

Mike, I think you're correct.  Dennis released very few out-and-out clunkers whereas Brian's work from 74 onward wasn't very consistent. That's not a problem that can be pinned on the BB solely -  I can think of several BB contemporaries who have suffered similar artistic fates.

Re: Brian. I think he can be compared to John Lennon.  John hit his peak in the mid-60's.  But since the Beatles broke, his work wasn't as consistent. Plastic Ono Band (another POB) and Imagine were brilliant records (that somehow also managed to turn off many Beatles fans with its brutal honesty - sound familiar?). But there also records like Some Time In NYC (IMO,Tthe worst Beatles solo record. Ever).  It's like both of them intentionally pulled back from what made them Great and became woefully incinsistent and maddeningly frustrating (for their fans) artists.

The Lennon example is good. I think the records like Sometime where Yoko sang are the worst, I just can't stand her voice. I think with the Beatles they balanced each other out. They all have had brilliant moments after the break up, but very inconsistent. I think with Brian and Dennis you additionally have the vocal damage to contend with, but I also think that the fact that the Beach Boys worked together well as a unit in the sixties and early 70s made a big difference. I guess because both groups set such a high standard for themselves their declines are far more jarring to us then any suffered by a route performer.

Magic_Transistor_Radio  River Song is brilliant and that's my point Dennis never did lose the passion in his voice whereas even the most dedicated Brian fan would admit he didn't put his heart into half of his post 1974 tracks.

[mikeyj]

But even though Dennis had a rough voice in the late 70s, the one thing he never lost was the emotion behind his voice. I think he had more heart in his singing then any of the other boys.

Yes. This is something I have always said/thought too. I think Dennis had the most passion in his voice, Carl the beauty and Brian somewhere in between.

[jmc]

I just listened to POB again yesterday and I have to agree with some of what was already said here.....tracks are great, but I wish the vocals were better.  By that I mean I wish Dennis's voice was closer to pre-1974 quality.  I feel that on some songs, even his gruff voice, which he worked well, sounds forced.  I love the album regardless, but as I'm listening to it, I can't get the thought out of mind of "how would this have sounded if...."  (his voice were better).  I know that is unfair and a bit selfish but it is only an opinion....oh well.  I do think his voice has a nice fit on River Song though.

[DJ M]

The hype? Man...that's a new one for POB. This LP has constantly been overlooked, even by most Brian Wilson aficionados. David Leaf gave MIU a better review than POB when it came out. Except for a core of us diehards who have been ranting on for decades...POB was ignored by Beach Boys fans in general. In fact, more people who cannot stand the typical Mike Love lead vocal BB's sound are the ones who embraced POB as a giant surprise and a very mature statement for the BB's. The normal comment was... wow, it sure doesn't sound as wimpy as most BB's music. POB appealed to an entirely different audience than the BB's, and no it was never really hyped. It did convert a lot of people into Dennis Wilson fans, but not enough to compete with Brian by a long shot. Now there's some hype on the BW front for sure. If River Song, or Moonshine, or Thoughts of You, or You and I, or Time or Rainbows had been written and produced by Brian Wilson people would be messing in their pants about it every day...forever. But they're just as happy to write it off as "okay but not great" because its Dennis and not Brian. Come on...the '88 BW LP got so much damn hype...even Imagination...and now Lucky Old Sun...such anticipation. These are all minor league statements compared to most of the songs and productions on POB. Talk about not even close.

This is so right on point and so well said.  Amen, brother, amen!

[Dancing Bear]

Beach Boys fans have this habit of looking at the song credits before deciding if they like a track. "It's no sin" 

[the captain]

Beach Boys fans have this habit of looking at the song credits before deciding if they like a track.

They also accuse everyone who disagrees with them of not being objective. Anyone who looks at it objectively can see that "Smart Girls" and "Sumahuma" are the two best Beach Boys songs ever. All of the rest of you are suckers buying into the mythology, just trying to be hipsters.
 

[Jonas]

Hey now, leave Sumahama out of this!

[Mahalo]

They also accuse everyone who disagrees with them of not being objective. Anyone who looks at it objectively can see that "Smart Girls" and "Sumahuma" are the two best Beach Boys songs ever.
 

Dang, I almost spit my coffee all over the monitor when I read that, finally somebody recognizes the beauty and stunning melodic egineering of Sumahuma and Smart Girls....

I just listened to POB again yesterday and I have to agree with some of what was already said here.....tracks are great, but I wish the vocals were better. 

I can understand that....but there is an anger or attitude that is conveyed through the nicotine/coke laced vox on POB that I dig.....it worx better on Dreamer, Friday Night, Moonshine IMO compared to others I guess....

[MBE]

Dreamer and Friday Night are very suited to Dennis' later voice, but something like THoughts Of You is very sad for me because I know what it could have been three or four years before.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Beach Boys fans have this habit of looking at the song credits before deciding if they like a track.

They also accuse everyone who disagrees with them of not being objective. Anyone who looks at it objectively can see that "Smart Girls" and "Sumahuma" are the two best Beach Boys songs ever. All of the rest of you are suckers buying into the mythology, just trying to be hipsters.
 

I agree that Sumahama is a great song. It is one of the best on LALA with Good Timin, Baby Blue and Lady Lynda. For Mike, this is a masterpiece, but would just be another song for Dennis or Brian.

[DonnyL]

that fragmented, meandering quality is part of what makes Dennis Wilson's music wholly unique and most certainly among the greatest ever recorded.  He is a true original, a true artist, and he will be remembered and revered as long as there are people that listen to music.  my eyes teared up a bit when i found out this package is being released (the day before my birthday), and became even more overjoyed to find out that there will be a vinyl release as well.  I expect this package to do very well ... his day has come.

[Jon Stebbins]

that fragmented, meandering quality is part of what makes Dennis Wilson's music wholly unique and most certainly among the greatest ever recorded.  He is a true original, a true artist, and he will be remembered and revered as long as there are people that listen to music.  my eyes teared up a bit when i found out this package is being released (the day before my birthday), and became even more overjoyed to find out that there will be a vinyl release as well.  I expect this package to do very well ... his day has come.

Right on Donny.

[adamghost]

that fragmented, meandering quality is part of what makes Dennis Wilson's music wholly unique and most certainly among the greatest ever recorded.  He is a true original, a true artist, and he will be remembered and revered as long as there are people that listen to music.  my eyes teared up a bit when i found out this package is being released (the day before my birthday), and became even more overjoyed to find out that there will be a vinyl release as well.  I expect this package to do very well ... his day has come.

It's a really good point, and it's worth mentioning that reviews of both LOVE YOU and PACIFIC OCEAN BLUE in '77 were mixed (although more favorable to Dennis' album I think).  Both the albums, production-wise and songwriting-wise, were so far out of the mainstream at the time that judged by those expectations, people were left scratching their heads.  It's just that same quality that has helped them stand out as years have passed.  Earle Mankey, who engineered both those albums, deserves some credit for their distinctive sound.

[Jon Stebbins]

that fragmented, meandering quality is part of what makes Dennis Wilson's music wholly unique and most certainly among the greatest ever recorded.  He is a true original, a true artist, and he will be remembered and revered as long as there are people that listen to music.  my eyes teared up a bit when i found out this package is being released (the day before my birthday), and became even more overjoyed to find out that there will be a vinyl release as well.  I expect this package to do very well ... his day has come.

It's a really good point, and it's worth mentioning that reviews of both LOVE YOU and PACIFIC OCEAN BLUE in '77 were mixed (although more favorable to Dennis' album I think).  Both the albums, production-wise and songwriting-wise, were so far out of the mainstream at the time that judged by those expectations, people were left scratching their heads.  It's just that same quality that has helped them stand out as years have passed.  Earle Mankey, who engineered both those albums, deserves some credit for their distinctive sound.

I've gotta disagree with Adam's statement here, which is a rare thing...but i was an avid BB's fan and rock press reader in '77 and I don't recall the reviews of either Love You or POB being "mixed". Love You generally received bad reviews, and POB's reviews were pretty much glowing across the board. Rolling Stone was still the bible in '77 and they called POB "a truly wonderful and touching album." They called DW's vocals "strangely powerful and moving." They said "though the tunes are often little more than fragments they have a way of taking hold of your emotions...there's a sensitivity and vulnerability that is almost irresistible." And finally, "Pacific Ocean Blue is a distinctly personal statement and reveals Dennis Wilson to be a talented and gifted performer in his own right." Rolling Stone was by no means alone in their assessment...this LP was certainly a critical hit in its time. Of course there were those in the BB's/Brian Wilson world who gave it luke warm reviews because it didn't sound like the BB's, or it wasn't "happy" enough...but the national rock press was pretty knocked out by POB.

[Wilsonista]

Patti Smith wrote a glowing review of Love You. Lester Bangs called Love You "the best album the BB ever made".  Hardly a unanimous trashing.

[DJ M]

Patti Smith wrote a glowing review of Love You. Lester Bangs called Love You "the best album the BB ever made".  Hardly a unanimous trashing.

Do you know where/when these reviews were published?  PS & LB are two of my favorite writers.

[Jon Stebbins]

Patti Smith wrote a glowing review of Love You. Lester Bangs called Love You "the best album the BB ever made".  Hardly a unanimous trashing.

I remember Patti Smith's review and thinking that was pretty cool... that she got it. I also remember Love You getting slaughtered by more than a few writers...this made me sad because it was so much better than 15 BO.