BB relationships from 80s til today

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I find it very strange how Al and Mike seemed very tight in the late 70s and early 80s. But in a few years, if not over night, Al begin to side with Carl, and by the 90s, Mike and Al haven't seemed to get along at all.

Any thoughts?

Also, what was Carl and Al's relationship in the late 70s after Carl had cleaned up? There was a few years where they were in differing factions, but suddenly joined. I'm just wondering if they got along at that time.

[MBE]

I think Mike and Al were on the same page with TM and even as late as 1978 Mike was pushing for some modern things in the show, notably the Charles Lloyd segement. I think as Mike's idea of the group became more generic, Al was less happy. Carl and he probably did get along far better post 1978.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Thanks MBE. Very interesting.

I have heard that Bruce got along well with all of them. Is that true? Is he in speaking terms with all the living BBs today. Or in last years of Carl's life?

[MBE]

Thanks MBE. Very interesting.

I have heard that Bruce got along well with all of them. Is that true? Is he in speaking terms with all the living BBs today. Or in last years of Carl's life?

You're welcome, though I am just making an educated guess by reading Jardine's post 1997 interviews and looking at archive footage.

Bruce is a hard character to clasify. I would say he was probably everybody's friend and enemy probably in the same day. David Marks' book backs up a lot of what I have heard about him over the years. Basically that he can be super nice and he can be pretty rotten. Seems like he has a little dual personality to me.

[Smilin Ed H]

Badman quotes Mike and Dennis about Bruce leaving in the early 70s and they're not exactly full of praise - although that didn't stop him having 'visitation' rights and didn't stop both of them working with him again.  And let's keep in mind that there moves to replace Bruce with Billy Hinsche in the late 60s - which oddly ties in with the period when the group were beginning to use his songs!  Go figure.

[MBE]

Yeah I am curious as to why he was going to leave. I think even Brian went with them to ask Billy.

[Pretty Funky]

Any source able to go on record yet on why the Brian/ Al reunion last year fell apart?

[Smilin Ed H]

I suspect Al sided with Mike out of self-preservation, if nothing else.  It must have been obvious that the drugs and drink and BW's problems were taking a huge toll and that at least two of the Wilsons had become unreliable, in their eyes - especially after Murry's death.  Let's not forget that Al always seems caught between folk-type stuff and nostalgic r'n'r, so this summer is fun stuff wouldn't have been such a leap (although creatively, it's a leap down an abyss) and I suspect he saw his efforts on MIU as papering over the considerable cracks.

As for Bruce, I don't think he approved of the late 60s lifestyle of some of the other members of the group.  He absented (wisely) himself from the Hawaii trip (gone fishin'  ) and he's talked (in the Granata (?) book) about longing for recording sessions where guys turned up neatly attired in sweaters - and he wasn't getting that, not even from Mike, who I suspect was considerably more conservative, politically and artistically, than the Wilsons.  I suspect Bruce is a nice guy and simply didn't like seeing what was going on around him.  No matter how much great music came from the 66-72 period, certain elements of the BB's lifestyle must have seemed chaotic and a far cry from the kind of existence he idealised in Disney Girls.

Wasn't he thinking of recording his own album in the late 60s anyhow?  Bluebirds, Tears?

[southbay]

Thanks MBE. Very interesting.

I have heard that Bruce got along well with all of them. Is that true? Is he in speaking terms with all the living BBs today. Or in last years of Carl's life?

You're welcome, though I am just making an educated guess by reading Jardine's post 1997 interviews and looking at archive footage.

Bruce is a hard character to clasify. I would say he was probably everybody's friend and enemy probably in the same day. David Marks' book backs up a lot of what I have heard about him over the years. Basically that he can be super nice and he can be pretty rotten. Seems like he has a little dual personality to me.

"I am no doctor but..." I would have to agree with this assessment of Bruce. I have met him upwards of 10-12 times. I would say that 5-6 of those times he was the nicest guy you could meet. Asking ME questions, talking BB history in depth with little or no encouragement.  Once in fact, the venue did not have me on their pass list. Bruce took it upon himself (again, without my asking) to make sure I got in, had passes and the best tix available.  Even went as far as to say "you better stick close to me" to make sure I had no problems.  OTHER TIMES...the guy was the complete opposite.  Comments to me such as "how did YOU get in here?", and the like, all while I was simply standing off the side minding my own business.  I mention this only because I have talked to and heard from others with like experiences. All of the other guys were nothing if not consistent. You knew what you were going to get from them, even Brian.

As to relationships, who can say?  However, all throught the 90's the band had two dressing rooms, one shared by Mike and Bruce, the other by Carl and AL.  This never changed and at each venue the signs were up on the rooms ("Dressing Room: Mike and Bruce; Dressing Room Carl and Alan).  This only stopped in 97 with Carl's illness when he got his own dressing room and the other was then shared by Mike, Bruce AND Al.  That may mean absolutely nothing.

HOWEVER, every time I hear about Carl and Alan being close and closely sided in the 90"s, I do wonder what would have been had they been able to forge that bond in say, the 1970's...? 

[Aegir]

The way people interact with each other changes over multiple decades. Hell, I don't even interact with the people in my band the same as I did two years ago! There's a clip on youtube from the early 70s where the Boys are being interviewed on French TV. The interviewer asks them if they live together and they all say no, but then Al reminds Mike that he lived at Al's house for awhile (probably inbetween wives or something) and then Mike put his hand on Al's leg and said, "Oh yes, we still live together," jokingly implying that they were lovers. It's sad knowing they had such a nice friendship and saw eye-to-eye on so many things for so many years, and gave us such favorable songs as the California Saga and Don't Go Near the Water, only to have their relationship deteriorate in the 80s and 90s.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

All of the other guys were nothing if not consistent. You knew what you were going to get from them, even Brian.

That is interesting. But from what I've read, Dennis was fairly inconsistant as well. If not more so. He could be sensitive and sweet, or start a fight with somebody. It probably had something to do with how sobre he was.

[Smilin Ed H]

Can't help wondering if the reason they were thinking of replacing Bruce with Billy was that Bruce had had enough.  Of all of them, at that time, he was the one likely to be able to go it alone and I'm sure I've read that Tears and Bluebirds were, initially, recordings he was working on by himself.

[MBE]

All of the other guys were nothing if not consistent. You knew what you were going to get from them, even Brian.

That is interesting. But from what I've read, Dennis was fairly inconsistant as well. If not more so. He could be sensitive and sweet, or start a fight with somebody. It probably had something to do with how sobre he was.

Well that may be true but his basic personality stayed the same at least when sober, and even when drunk you knew what you were going to get. Brian probably changed the most I think the Brian of 1964, 1976, 1988, and 2007 are four completely different people. I say that in how he reacts to things or communicates. Of courser this is down to drugs and drink too.

[matt-zeus]

.....and then Mike put his hand on Al's leg and said, "Oh yes, we still live together," jokingly implying that they were lovers.

Maybe this was no joke and is the reason that Al had to leave the band....

[Ian]

In terms of Bruce and his problems with the band in the early 70s- Mike discussed his departure at some length in a two part interview with Keith Altham in two June 1972 NMEs

Mike said in the June 10 issue that  "We had a meeting and we discussed the personal problems within the group, and the relationships between the various members within the group. Some of us had no relationship at all, and Bruce said, 'If that's the way you feel about it maybe I should just leave – I don't want to leave but maybe it's for the best! It was very amicable.  Bruce is definitely on a solo trip, he is a good solo performer, he writes fantastic songs by himself, and the time he spent writing alone isolated him from the group.  He had his own interests, his own relationships with the Press, and he played a game that was oblique to the Beach Boys. But now he is free to do as he pleases. The Beach Boys never threw Bruce out, he was just on a tangent that was outside the Beach Boys for so many years. His whole idea of the future is to be a song-writer and have a TV show, and it's all based on individual musical taste and individual aspirations which are fine, but now within the framework of a group. That was what was good about Bruce leaving the group.
Bruce was quoted that he was dismissed?
Bruce said he knew the problems as well as we did, and he wanted us to help him to write this song, but each individual in the group had something that affected them about the way Bruce had been for seven years, and he said 'if that's the way you feel about it I'll just split'.
Was it just a question of his life style being different from yours?
No, not at all, because his lifestyle is changing like everyone elses, the difference is that he is creative on his own not as part of a group. I wouldn't dream of doing a solo album or anything like that, but that's just me. We've all had our ups and downs within the group and got frustrated and pissed off because of the tremendous amount of work that's gone into the last year or so. But when Bruce was confronted with it he took it subjectively and he over-reacted, and said he would split.  He may have taken it as a dismissal but that's just too bad because we had tangible gripes about him. I don't think the subject is closed, we're still friends. Creatively I don't know what's going to happen, it depends on him a lot."

[southbay]

Also re Bruce's departure, it has been well documented that he had problems with Jack Rieley (sp?) who was essentially the group's "svengali" at that time. Bruce apparently saw through the guy before the others did.

[Jonas]

"I wouldn't dream of doing a solo album or anything like that, but that's just me."

If only...

[tpesky]

In regards to the post before about the Brian/Al reunion of 06/07.  I don't remember ever hearing definitely why it broke off suddenly. Did I miss it? That was the best damn BB related concert I went to since the 93 tour! Although, it would appear they are still in contact as Brian played on Al's album and according to Melinda, Al was the only one to congratulate Brian on his Kennedy honor.

As for Al/Carl, I remember Jon Stebbins ( I think or AGD) posting about how Al felt some guilt just before and after Dennis's death about not siding with the Wilsons on some things and that explained some of the closeness of Al/Carl in the 80's and 90's. I always wondered if this guilt caused Al to pushto get Carl back in the band circa 82 more.  I think it might also explain some of the bitterness/anger Al feels toward Mike even today. He is more mad at himself for siding with Mike alot for that period. Even Mike has mentioned that he feels Al has hostility over old things.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

In regards to the post before about the Brian/Al reunion of 06/07.  I don't remember ever hearing definitely why it broke off suddenly. Did I miss it? That was the best damn BB related concert I went to since the 93 tour! Although, it would appear they are still in contact as Brian played on Al's album and according to Melinda, Al was the only one to congratulate Brian on his Kennedy honor.

As for Al/Carl, I remember Jon Stebbins ( I think or AGD) posting about how Al felt some guilt just before and after Dennis's death about not siding with the Wilsons on some things and that explained some of the closeness of Al/Carl in the 80's and 90's. I always wondered if this guilt caused Al to pushto get Carl back in the band circa 82 more.  I think it might also explain some of the bitterness/anger Al feels toward Mike even today. He is more mad at himself for siding with Mike alot for that period. Even Mike has mentioned that he feels Al has hostility over old things.

I wonder how much push there was to get Brian back in the group. I have heard different things about this. Eugene Landy was not allowing it to happen. Which would make sense through 91 or 92, but after Landy was fired, there must have been another reason.

In the 1990s, what exactly kept Brian out of the BBs? I would imagine that Carl and Al would have wanted Brian's inculsion more the Mike and Bruce. I wonder if this may have added to Mike and Al's falling out.

[southbay]

In regards to the post before about the Brian/Al reunion of 06/07.  I don't remember ever hearing definitely why it broke off suddenly. Did I miss it? That was the best damn BB related concert I went to since the 93 tour! Although, it would appear they are still in contact as Brian played on Al's album and according to Melinda, Al was the only one to congratulate Brian on his Kennedy honor.

As for Al/Carl, I remember Jon Stebbins ( I think or AGD) posting about how Al felt some guilt just before and after Dennis's death about not siding with the Wilsons on some things and that explained some of the closeness of Al/Carl in the 80's and 90's. I always wondered if this guilt caused Al to pushto get Carl back in the band circa 82 more.  I think it might also explain some of the bitterness/anger Al feels toward Mike even today. He is more mad at himself for siding with Mike alot for that period. Even Mike has mentioned that he feels Al has hostility over old things.

I wonder how much push there was to get Brian back in the group. I have heard different things about this. Eugene Landy was not allowing it to happen. Which would make sense through 91 or 92, but after Landy was fired, there must have been another reason.

In the 1990s, what exactly kept Brian out of the BBs? I would imagine that Carl and Al would have wanted Brian's inculsion more the Mike and Bruce. I wonder if this may have added to Mike and Al's falling out.

You know, I would say that around '94, Brian WAS back in the group more than any period of time  since the mid-70's.  For instance, he was actively involved with Mike writing material; he was active with the entire group at recording sessions (Baywatch Nights, the Paley/Was sessions in 95; Stars and Stripes).  He appeared in videos with the band (Summer of Love video from BW; Stars and Stripes).  He just wasn't performing with them in concert on a regular basis (as had been the case since 1965).  That being said, he would make appearances (FanFair; the 95 stint in Las Vegas; appearing at LA area shows with the group, but staying backstage and not performing).  I think it was not until the Was sessions blew up that he "left" again. Thoughts?

[Emdeeh]

In regards to the post before about the Brian/Al reunion of 06/07.  I don't remember ever hearing definitely why it broke off suddenly.

Does anyone know if the passing of Al's mother in early fall 2007 was a factor?

As for the alignments from the 80s on, I think there was an element of natural compatibility in philosophical outlook at play with the various personalities.

[Sheriff John Stone]

You know, I would say that around '94, Brian WAS back in the group more than any period of time  since the mid-70's.  For instance, he was actively involved with Mike writing material; he was active with the entire group at recording sessions (Baywatch Nights, the Paley/Was sessions in 95; Stars and Stripes).  He appeared in videos with the band (Summer of Love video from BW; Stars and Stripes).  He just wasn't performing with them in concert on a regular basis (as had been the case since 1965).  That being said, he would make appearances (FanFair; the 95 stint in Las Vegas; appearing at LA area shows with the group, but staying backstage and not performing).  I think it was not until the Was sessions blew up that he "left" again. Thoughts?

Thoughts? Yeah. Brian married Melinda, who had her own thoughts on Brian's "career", which didn't include the Beach Boys.

[Dancing Bear]

I would imagine that Carl and Al would have wanted Brian's inculsion more the Mike and Bruce. I wonder if this may have added to Mike and Al's falling out.

Hey, Mike's idea of heaven is being in the Beach Boys in 1965, when everything made sense. That included Brian as a songwriting partner and best friend.

[Wilsonista]

SJS: I doubt that's the case.
DB: I think you're correct. (Me agreeing with you? Hell must be freezing!)
EDIT: SJS: I'd be more willing to bet that there are other people in Brian's camp that had their own idea of whether Brian should be a BB and they in turn advised and influenced  whoever makes these decisions.

[tpesky]

"He appeared in videos with the band (Summer of Love video from BW") 
Oh god, I tried to block that out from my memory. That was painful to watch and listen to!