Was Summer In Paradise salvageable?

[Fun Is In]

Only one word for that production:   inSIPid

[Wilsonista]

Back in the 90's, I made a mix tape of the best (or least esoteric) of the SI tracks with the new songs from Still Crusin' and treated it like a parallel 1989 BB album. (I even dubbed it THE SPIRIT OF ROCK AND ROLL which I put on the tape). If I can find it in the next day or so, I'll post a track list.

[Mark H.]

Sometimes no album is better than a "decent" album or a "salvagable" album; this was one of those times.

 

[MBE]

I think Brian was at an all time low and the Beach Boys were too. That the fantastic 1993 tour came so soon after this astounds me. They could have done much better. Hot Fun is ok as it has a group feel, the title song could have been good with a more mature rewrite (ie take out Beach Boys references). Strange Things Happen is kind of competent, but it has to be (along with SI) one of my least favorite albums. I did find one of the very rare vinyl copies after a decades search and it added some warmth but it was still a bad bad album.

[matt-zeus]

With SIP, there's a dependance on the almost 'Tropical' type of pop that Mike was doing, basically as previously said - an album of Kokomo's. The sort of album that might be background music in 'Weekend at Bernies' or something.
I tinkered around with making a 'tropical' Beach Boys album at a low ebb once, I grabbed some Brian solo moments like 'South American', 'Do you have any regrets', 'Sunshine' plus stuff like 'Sail Away' and integrated it with some of the less offensive tracks off SIP and 'Still Cruisin', it made for an oddly cohesive though vacuous listening experience!
In my opinion, SIP makes MIU look like Pet Sounds - though I do actually really like MIU!

[Smilin Ed H]

Al only involved on one song?  Don't think so.

[MBE]

With SIP, there's a dependance on the almost 'Tropical' type of pop that Mike was doing, basically as previously said - an album of Kokomo's. The sort of album that might be background music in 'Weekend at Bernies' or something.
I tinkered around with making a 'tropical' Beach Boys album at a low ebb once, I grabbed some Brian solo moments like 'South American', 'Do you have any regrets', 'Sunshine' plus stuff like 'Sail Away' and integrated it with some of the less offensive tracks off SIP and 'Still Cruisin', it made for an oddly cohesive though vacuous listening experience!
In my opinion, SIP makes MIU look like Pet Sounds - though I do actually really like MIU!

I have to agree. As flawed as the 1976-80 material remains, it still has a certain quality to it that their later work didn't maintain.

[mikeyj]

I have to agree. As flawed as the 1976-80 material remains, it still has a certain quality to it that their later work didn't maintain.

It almost seems to me (and I am only assuming) that in the band's peak they were making albums cause they loved making music (of course they wanted money too) but it seemed that they were having fun making music. Whereas in the latter years it just seemed that they were trying to shove any old product on the market to make a quick buck. I think you could also add to it that, well what else are they spose to do for a living? They've been Beach Boys all their adult lives. Of course most people when they get older are rarely as creative as when they are younger and aren't as "cool and hip" than in years gone by, but during those early years (mainly 61-73) you can feel the love in the music and you can feel the warmth and care that went into those records (generally speaking anyway) whereas later on that feeling sort of disappeared from the music.

[MBE]

Agreed I think only Dennis maintained that love consistently after 1973, though all had some good moments after that.

[southbay]

I'm curious, has Al, Carl and/or Brian commented on SIP?

I have only heard one--a newspaper article in late 1992.  It was an interview with Carl.  One of those "the band is coming to town so we will interview the artist by phone" deals. Very odd that it was Carl and not Mike or Bruce, but anyway... Carl's quotes from that article (from memory, I don't have it) clearly suggested he was not enthralled with the album.  He stated that he did not see SIP "as a harbinger of new recordings for the group." In reagrds to the tracklist, "which contains numerous covers", Carl stated "I am more partial  to orignial material, but unfortunatley some of my partners are not so inclined."  He then went on to briefly discuss the TRIO sessions, which the interviewee said Carl was "much more enthusiastic about."   The question was asked why was he recording original material with Beckley and Lamm, and not with the BB's.  Carl stated that sometimes an artist wants to create music, but it just doesn't fit in to what your group is doing.  Hence, recording that stuff with Beckley and Lamm gave him a good outlet for his non-BB type material.   

Or something to that effect.  Wish I still had that article...

[Aegir]

the title song could have been good with a more mature rewrite (ie take out Beach Boys references)

I completely agree with you. Summer in Paradise would be one of the songs I'd show to people when I try to convince them that the Beach Boys are cool (especially the UK mix with Roger McGuinn) if not for the lines about Fun, Fun, Fun and Rhonda and Barbara Ann. Gag. I can take being self-referential in a nostalgic song like Brian's Back or even in something like Smart Girls but when you're singing about the environment there's no need to mention that you're the band that sang Help Me Rhonda. Dumb dumb dumb.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I still hold that "Strange Things Happen" would've been a good choice for a single. The guitar parts are cool, Mike vocals aren't bad (Al's are killer)...just a bit of trimming would've worked out good. Actually the music on most of the album is pretty good, it's the lyrics   that bring the album down. Well, that, and Summer of Love. I mean, really now.

[Mr. Wilson]

Boy oh boy.. Summer of love..Sucks rocks..!! LOL..!!.. When i played SIP to a friend he said.. The Beach Boys were TRYIN to sound like BB..!!.. Odd statement but true.. The lp has some merit but  im not crazy about it.. It is listenable but just too lightweight for me..

[Awesoman]

Al only involved on one song?  Don't think so.

As far as the original recording of this album goes, yes it is true.  He was only involved on one song, "Slow Summer Dancin'".  However, as it has been mentioned, he was apparently involved with the European re-recordings.  I've never heard the newer versions of these songs save for the revamped title track.  I don't know why they went to the trouble of re-doing this album again even if the songs improved some from it.  It's not saying much when you go from "terrible" to "lousy". 

[southbay]

Al only involved on one song?  Don't think so.

As far as the original recording of this album goes, yes it is true.  He was only involved on one song, "Slow Summer Dancin'".  However, as it has been mentioned, he was apparently involved with the European re-recordings.  I've never heard the newer versions of these songs save for the revamped title track.  I don't know why they went to the trouble of re-doing this album again even if the songs improved some from it.  It's not saying much when you go from "terrible" to "lousy". 

NO...Strange Things Happen (maybe Al's best vocal EVER, but certainly since the very early 70's); also, prominent BGV's on the American (original) issue of Island Fever.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I'm curious, has Al, Carl and/or Brian commented on SIP?

I have only heard one--a newspaper article in late 1992.  It was an interview with Carl.  One of those "the band is coming to town so we will interview the artist by phone" deals. Very odd that it was Carl and not Mike or Bruce, but anyway... Carl's quotes from that article (from memory, I don't have it) clearly suggested he was not enthralled with the album.  He stated that he did not see SIP "as a harbinger of new recordings for the group." In reagrds to the tracklist, "which contains numerous covers", Carl stated "I am more partial  to orignial material, but unfortunatley some of my partners are not so inclined."  He then went on to briefly discuss the TRIO sessions, which the interviewee said Carl was "much more enthusiastic about."   The question was asked why was he recording original material with Beckley and Lamm, and not with the BB's.  Carl stated that sometimes an artist wants to create music, but it just doesn't fit in to what your group is doing.  Hence, recording that stuff with Beckley and Lamm gave him a good outlet for his non-BB type material.   

Or something to that effect.  Wish I still had that article...

Thank you for posting this. There isn't much floating around in regards to SIP. But, Carl's comments kind of bother me. AND I'M NOT SAYING THIS TO DEFEND MIKE LOVE.

It's obvious Mike (and Terry) didn't have enough material for an entire album, hence we have the covers (including "Surfin'"!!!!). But why not get a song contribution from Carl? He was a Beach Boy, among other things he was a songwriter, and they were recording a Beach Boys' album. We had this discussion before regarding 15 Big Ones and MIU. If Carl (or Dennis or Al or Brian or David) offers a quality song at the sessions, I just find it hard to believe that Mike Love, who wants nothing less than a hit album/single, would refuse it. A Carl Wilson-penned song could've easily fit into SIP, if it's anything remotely like "I Wish For You" or "Like A Brother". I don't think Mike would've bumped it for a remake of "Surfin'"; just add the damn song to the album. The CD could hold it!

Also, it hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread, but, at that time (1990-91), wasn't Brian in conflict with Carl (and the group?) because of the anti-Landy/pro-conservatorship issue? That probably prevented Brian from going into studio to record a new Beach Boys' album. Did Brian get paid for SIP? I'm sure he collected a check from the next Beach Boys' concert - that he didn't perform at. As I dodge the bullets.... .

[southbay]

Agreed.  Run Don't Walk may have fit fairly well. As for Brian being in conflict during this time...absolutely. SIP was recorded in the winter of 91, Brian was completely estranged from the band.  carl was involved in the suit v. Landy.  This was the period (the recording) as the infamous Diane Sawyer interview. The worst of times between Brian and the family.   As for a check...yes he( or Landy, or his conservator of that time) would have gotten one in terms of album sales as a memeber of BRI. 

[Wilsonista]

I'm curious, has Al, Carl and/or Brian commented on SIP?

I have only heard one--a newspaper article in late 1992.  It was an interview with Carl.  One of those "the band is coming to town so we will interview the artist by phone" deals. Very odd that it was Carl and not Mike or Bruce, but anyway... Carl's quotes from that article (from memory, I don't have it) clearly suggested he was not enthralled with the album.  He stated that he did not see SIP "as a harbinger of new recordings for the group." In reagrds to the tracklist, "which contains numerous covers", Carl stated "I am more partial  to orignial material, but unfortunatley some of my partners are not so inclined."  He then went on to briefly discuss the TRIO sessions, which the interviewee said Carl was "much more enthusiastic about."   The question was asked why was he recording original material with Beckley and Lamm, and not with the BB's.  Carl stated that sometimes an artist wants to create music, but it just doesn't fit in to what your group is doing.  Hence, recording that stuff with Beckley and Lamm gave him a good outlet for his non-BB type material.   

Or something to that effect.  Wish I still had that article...

Thank you for posting this. There isn't much floating around in regards to SIP. But, Carl's comments kind of bother me. AND I'M NOT SAYING THIS TO DEFEND MIKE LOVE.

It's obvious Mike (and Terry) didn't have enough material for an entire album, hence we have the covers (including "Surfin'"!!!!). But why not get a song contribution from Carl? He was a Beach Boy, among other things he was a songwriter, and they were recording a Beach Boys' album. We had this discussion before regarding 15 Big Ones and MIU. If Carl (or Dennis or Al or Brian or David) offers a quality song at the sessions, I just find it hard to believe that Mike Love, who wants nothing less than a hit album/single, would refuse it. A Carl Wilson-penned song could've easily fit into SIP, if it's anything remotely like "I Wish For You" or "Like A Brother". I don't think Mike would've bumped it for a remake of "Surfin'"; just add the damn song to the album. The CD could hold it!

Also, it hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread, but, at that time (1990-91), wasn't Brian in conflict with Carl (and the group?) because of the anti-Landy/pro-conservatorship issue? That probably prevented Brian from going into studio to record a new Beach Boys' album. Did Brian get paid for SIP? I'm sure he collected a check from the next Beach Boys' concert - that he didn't perform at. As I dodge the bullets.... .

Nobody's bothered to confirm or refute what I said at the start of the thread: I don't trhink it was originally intended to be a BB album.  A Mike, Bruce and Terry project with vocal cameos from Carl (not unlike Carl guesting on First Love). Al wasn't even involved until late.  Kind of hard to contribute those new songs when you're kicked out of the band.

Think about this: they were only a few years removed from Kokomo. It was still a "recent" hit and I'm thinking that Mike and Terry probably thought they'd found the new BB formula. It was Carl's perogative to offer or not offer material for consideration. Maybe Carl thought they wouldn't get a fair reading from Mike. "Gee man, sounds nice man but our fans liked Kokomo and we need more Kokmos, ya dig ? Not these ballads." If I were Carl and I saw Mike trying to re-create Kokomos, I probably would have held onto my songs and save them for bandmates  who showed more enthusiams and encouragement for them.

There you go SJS: you think like Mike Love, I think like a Wilson.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Nobody's bothered to confirm or refute what I said at the start of the thread: I don't trhink it was originally intended to be a BB album.  A Mike, Bruce and Terry project with vocal cameos from Carl (not unlike Carl guesting on First Love). Al wasn't even involved until late.  Kind of hard to contribute those new songs when you're kicked out of the band.

Think about this: they were only a few years removed from Kokomo. It was still a "recent" hit and I'm thinking that Mike and Terry probably thought they'd found the new BB formula. It was Carl's perogative to offer or not offer material for consideration. Maybe Carl thought they wouldn't get a fair reading from Mike. "Gee man, sounds nice man but our fans liked Kokomo and we need more Kokmos, ya dig ? Not these ballads." If I were Carl and I saw Mike trying to re-create Kokomos, I probably would have held onto my songs and save them for bandmates  who showed more enthusiams and encouragement for them.

There you go SJS: you think like Mike Love, I think like a Wilson.

RobMac, I can't refute or confirm your previous post; I just don't have enough information on the events/ negotiations. It is an interesting theory though; Mike did it previously with Celebration, Mike & Dean, and the infamous Looking Back With Love.

I will agree (pick yourself off the floor) with your theory about Mike and Terry "finding the BB formula" and beating it to death. Hell, Mike's still milking that today! And he's not shy about letting us know about it either.

But I have to disagree about Mike not considering songs because they weren't in the Kokomo vein. "Summer Of Love", "Strange Things Happen", "Slow Summer Dancing", and even the "Forever" remake are not totally Kokomo-ish. Summery/Beach Boys-like, yes.

When I think of Carl contributions that might've fit, I think of songs like "Full Sail" and "Goin' South". Or "Heaven", "Where I Belong", or even "Keepin' The Summer Alive". I'm not sure Mike would've vetoed them.

[southbay]

Think about this: they were only a few years removed from Kokomo. It was still a "recent" hit and I'm thinking that Mike and Terry probably thought they'd found the new BB formula. It was Carl's perogative to offer or not offer material for consideration. Maybe Carl thought they wouldn't get a fair reading from Mike. "Gee man, sounds nice man but our fans liked Kokomo and we need more Kokmos, ya dig ? Not these ballads." If I were Carl and I saw Mike trying to re-create Kokomos, I probably would have held onto my songs and save them for bandmates  who showed more enthusiams and encouragement for them.

Interesting...There was an EXTENSIVE interview with Mike Love done at the relase of SIP.  It was done by the guys at the now defunct Cal Saga fanzine. At any rate, Mike did indeed allude to the "new formula" he had stumbled upon with Kokomo (and, Still Cruisin' the song, albeit with lesser success)...Mike on the intro/verses, Carl coming in on the chorus/bridge and the contrast of their vocals. He intimated it was not much different from the early "formula" of he and Brian trading off.  That is all over SIP (Island Fever, esp the original; Lahaina Aloha; Surfin'; even the Under The Boardwalk and Hot Fun remakes).  In the end, it worked once. Not a SUCCESSFUL formual, but a formula nevertheless.

[mikeyj]

It's obvious Mike (and Terry) didn't have enough material for an entire album, hence we have the covers (including "Surfin'"!!!!). But why not get a song contribution from Carl? He was a Beach Boy, among other things he was a songwriter, and they were recording a Beach Boys' album. We had this discussion before regarding 15 Big Ones and MIU. If Carl (or Dennis or Al or Brian or David) offers a quality song at the sessions, I just find it hard to believe that Mike Love, who wants nothing less than a hit album/single, would refuse it. A Carl Wilson-penned song could've easily fit into SIP, if it's anything remotely like "I Wish For You" or "Like A Brother". I don't think Mike would've bumped it for a remake of "Surfin'"; just add the damn song to the album. The CD could hold it!

I'm sure you are right in saying that Mike+Terry wouldn't have turned down a song from Carl. I mean I remember reading an interview with Terry Melcher where he said how "Forever" shouldn't have been on the album and I think he even mentions that Stamos felt that it shouldn't have been on the album (not sure if that's true or not though? - I mean who wouldn't want to be on a Beach Boys album).

But I think you have to look at it from Carl's view too. As someone mentioned, Carl didn't feel that his songs fit in with the group's album. I really can't see I Wish For You or Like A Brother fitting in with SIP. I Wish For You sounds sad whereas SIP is Mike's idea of "the ultimate summer themed album" or something to that effect. I don't know, maby its just because I hate SIP and wouldn't want a great (or atleast good) song(s) being amongst a pile of rubbish (no offence to anyone who likes it but I just hate the album)

Here's a quote by Mike from Goldmine: "I asked the group and got approval for the authorisation for me to take a hand in the next album project, which is Summer In Paradise. Every song and whatever producer we would use would have to be okayed by me and I would have the authority to exercise what I felt was the most commercial and creative strenghts of all the guys."

Looking at it from Carl's view, can you imagine Mike gathering the group and saying that? Acting like he is the boss of the whole project and only he determines what songs are on the album. If I was Carl I would think "stuff you Mike, what makes you the boss". Of course I'm not Carl but I can't see how he would have been in favour of that. Surely the whole group should get together and go "Oh gee I like that song and Carl has that really nice song there etc.." and have a vote for what songs should be on the album.

Anyway, just after that quote he goes on about how it was due to his commercial judgement that "Kokomo" became a big hit. I get SICK of it when Mike always brings up Kokomo in interviews and says how great it was and it was the biggest hit of their careers. Okay, firstly it was number one for ONE week. That is still a good achievement, but seriously it's not like its the biggest hit ever by anyone. Sure I can see it from his point of view that he is proud that he had a number one hit so long after their creative peak, BUT seriously how many "Greatest Songs Lists" has Kokomo appeared in? I'm not saying that means much but it AINT THAT POPULAR!! (eg: NOBODY cares - well very few people care) And I can only speak from my point of view, but if anyone I know finds out I like The Beach Boys they seriously pay the crap out of me by singing Kokomo in a sarcastic voice. Most people HATE Kokomo or atleast don't think it's one of the greatest songs ever.

Anyway, there's my ramblings for the day. Sorry to go a bit off topic at the end there, but I just get bored of Mike always going on about how great Kokomo is.

[Eric Aniversario]

A Carl Wilson-penned song could've easily fit into SIP, if it's anything remotely like "I Wish For You" or "Like A Brother". I don't think Mike would've bumped it for a remake of "Surfin'"; just add the damn song to the album. The CD could hold it!

I love SIP, and I love Like A Brother in very different ways, but I shudder at the thought of having "I Wish For You" on SIP.

[MBE]

I just think Carl (and Brian) really lost their real passion for leading the group after Dennis died. Except for Beach Boys 85 and the 1993 tour Carl stayed in the baqckground after1983. Brian stopped touring regularly with them in 1984 and after 1989 did next to nothing with them.  I mean 1990 was his last full tour with them, and then it was only because Mike was missing some dates. Also he was out of the publicity shots after 1989 too. Ok so he did do half a dozen gigs and some sessions in the mid ninties but it wasn't like before. I guess Carl didn't feel like his new songs would be done right with Terry Melcher and Mike at the helm. Who knows maybe they did reject his stuff.

[Dancing Bear]

I think BB 85 was the last album in which Carl was really trying. Maybe the production wasn't the most appropriate and Brian didn't offer his best material, but the project was the best that Carl, Al, Mike and Bruce could do at the time. And it tanked just like the last four albums.

The abscence of Carl's songs in Beach Boys records after 1985 probably had more to do with Carl's desillusionment with the Beach Boys than Mike vetoing his songs in 1991 or Brian not paying much attention to them in 1995.

[MBE]

Well Carl's dissatisfaction is what I was trying to speak of. I was just giving examples of what may have made him care less. Sadly Carl's interviews became far less candid after Dennis died too. The last really good ones I read were when he was promoting Youngbood. I think Carl loved the idea of keeping everyone together, the idea of the Beach Boys as a group. Yet I think to keep this going on he sacrificed far too much, then again maybe he didn't care anymore. It's hard to say but at least from 76-82 he made public his thoughts that the Beach Boys were declining. Obviously he was sadly right.
 I read an article from 1975 that already is bemoning the Beach Boys reliance on old songs. In hindsight The difference between 1975 and say 1985 is that they played the old songs with a lot of care.