Tape trading vs. Tape "hoarding"

[Jay]

In my Get The Boot topic, Andrew G. Doe mentioned that a fake recording was included, as a "tracker". It got me thinking about something. What is the opinion of people on this board in regards to "hoarding" a rare Beach Boys  recording(i.e. "not sharing or circulating") as opposed to freely tape trading recordings? I realize that there are a number of "higher up" people in the Beach Boys world who have certain uncirculated recordings. I remember a post on this board about a certain person who has some KTSA outtakes on his I-Pod. My question is, is it "right" to keep recordings to yourself, rather than sharing them?

[MBE]

That's a really hard question.  I personally don't think it hurts an artist because fans are going to buy it if it's eventually put out officially anyway. Anyone who is a big enough fan to trade on line, or buy a boot, will buy anything officially released. Yet I understand an artist may not want people to hear anything they didn't authorize. I also understand that if somebody is given something and told to keep it to themselves they should honor that. So while I hunger to hear Wouldn't it Be Nice To Live Again, Surfer Susie, Where Is She, and the 1974 California Feeling, I know I may never get to. Considering how many Beach Boys tapes are circulating I don't think we have been deprived, still it's sad to think of old tapes never seeing the light of day that would add so much to our enjoyment and understanding of the Beach Boys music.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The situation was, and is, very clear cut - someone gives you a song and says "please don't copy it", then you don't. If you do ignore their request, two things happen:

1 - you could put the source in a difficult position...

2 - you erode your own trustworthiness and with it the chances of getting any more rare material. It's usually a 'one strike and out' scenario.

It's a credo that's carried me safely through over 30 years of BB fandom, and opened a few doors in the process. It's also, on a more general scale, sorted out the good guys from the (thankfully few) bad guys. The appearance of, and source of, the Deep Sea Treasures boots of a few years back helped accelerate the fall of a very high profile fan (whom it must be noted wasn't doing themselves any favors to begin with).

[matt-zeus]

The situation was, and is, very clear cut - someone gives you a song and says "please don't copy it", then you don't. If you do ignore their request, two things happen:

1 - you could put the source in a difficult position...

2 - you erode your own trustworthiness and with it the chances of getting any more rare material. It's usually a 'one strike and out' scenario.

It's a credo that's carried me safely through over 30 years of BB fandom, and opened a few doors in the process. It's also, on a more general scale, sorted out the good guys from the (thankfully few) bad guys. The appearance of, and source of, the Deep Sea Treasures boots of a few years back helped accelerate the fall of a very high profile fan (whom it must be noted wasn't doing themselves any favors to begin with).

Do you have any rarities (not in circulation) for your ears only that you can describe to us AGD?

[Susan]

Do you have any rarities (not in circulation) for your ears only that you can describe to us AGD?

I would guess that part of the agreement sometimes is to not even mention that you have a thing...

[Andrew G. Doe]

Not a bad guess. 

[matt-zeus]

Damn! I thought i'd sneaked in one there...

[Shady]

It's threads like this that make us very, very, very regular BB fans seem very negligible 

lol

[Andrew G. Doe]

We're all regular BB/BW fans. No-one is negligible.

OK, maybe Bobby California... 

[the captain]

We're all regular BB/BW fans. No-one is negligible.

Not to be blueboardian (and no offense there either, just a hint of the message of the words to come), but this is right on. Everyone, whatever they've got or heard, once had nothing and heard "California Girls" or "Surfer Girl" or some such thing. And everyone here got into it more and started buying singles or albums. And everyone gets more knowledgeable. And some get much more knowledgeable, dig deeper and come across other material (be it unreleased or just not so common). The fanatic isn't superior to the fan, the collector to the casual listener or the musician to the tunefully disinclined.

"I have [whatever] and it's VERY rare and no, I can't play it for you, but you should hear it! Oh, and have you heard the unreleased fourth take of [blah blah]? Well, you HAVE to. You're not a fan until you hear that one...I have it on vinyl." means nothing except that the speaker is an arrogant fodahead.

This and all music suits different purposes for different people, but none has any particular independent, overriding claim over the others. And while all of us (ok, I) get snooty on occasion, that's just a bad side effect of too many melodies swirling around in the head.

[doc smiley]

yet the true fans wait and hope to hear this stuff and Beach Boys Central is now what ... 18 months? and still no site...
to buy anything legit from the band....
beginning to think that they are waiting till we (the fans) are all dead.. then when they make this stuff available in 2025 and there's no interest...
they can say... see! no one cares

[michael]

I think for the second time in say 25+ years of collecting BB,I recently recieved a 8 cd set that I was asked not to trade..it feels kind of strange to have it and not be able to offer it to other BB Friends but,I will keep my word knowing that down the road somebody will break the seal and release to the trading circle.
 I don't think tape hoarding is really the issue and it is definetly not an issue of who is a better fan.If someone ask you not to trade an item,but gives it to you as a gift,DON'T TRADE IT!

[mikeyj]

The appearance of, and source of, the Deep Sea Treasures boots of a few years back helped accelerate the fall of a very high profile fan (whom it must be noted wasn't doing themselves any favors to begin with).

Weren't heaps of the tracks on the Deep Sea Treasures boots officially released later on anyway?

[Jay]

We're all regular BB/BW fans. No-one is negligible.

[/quote}

"I have [whatever] and it's VERY rare and no, I can't play it for you, but you should hear it! Oh, and have you heard the unreleased fourth take of [blah blah]? Well, you HAVE to. You're not a fan until you hear that one...I have it on vinyl." means nothing except that the speaker is an arrogant fodahead.

This is the main problem I have with tape "hoarding". I'll give you an example. There is a certain high profile fan of The Doors that likes to talk about all the great stuff he has, but can't circulate because the recording is to "sensitive". There is a certain "holier than thou" additude among hardcore "fans" that get's really annoying.

[Andrew G. Doe]

"I have [whatever] and it's VERY rare and no, I can't play it for you, but you should hear it! Oh, and have you heard the unreleased fourth take of [blah blah]? Well, you HAVE to. You're not a fan until you hear that one...I have it on vinyl." means nothing except that the speaker is an arrogant fodahead.

Interesting point - I've never heard of anyone in the Wacky World of Wilson being asked not to play stuff for friends, just not to mention the source and/or not to copy. Mind you, there's some stuff I've heard that, were I to have it, I sure as hell wouldn't play for anyone else. There may be gold in them thar hills, but there's a lot of crap too.

[MBE]

I think it's more then fair to say that Luther and Jay are referring to people that brag and probably don't have anything. I have been told by someone that he had an 1970 Add Some Music promo with Brian, an interview with Brian from 1969 where tells of smoking joints, and a 1975 video of the Back Home sessions. All nonsense of course.

[the captain]

I think it's more then fair to say that Luther and Jay are refearing to people that brag and probably don't have anything.

Can't speak for Jay, but yeah. I also was referring to the elitist attitude and blabbermouth bragging of those people who may well have things, but are more interested in making sure the world understands that having those things is what makes them superior to you or me than actually listening to the music. As if owning a rare recording gives you some credit similar to that of the artists themselves.

Andrew--I didn't intend to make the distinction between play and copy, actually. My point was more about the last two sentences of my above paragraph.

[Mr. Wilson]

YEA.. I read a few years ago that the 2 cd set Deep Sea Treasures was compiled for release.. Or at least all the tracks were up for consideration.. When the boots came out there was no release of that material.. Such a shame.. Then the Hawthorne set came out instead.. Also the high quality SMILE stuff was compiled  for BW + record people to listen to for consideration for release....Late 80"s..And it was either stolen or copied .. And U know the rest of the story.. is this close to being accurate AGD..??

[Andrew G. Doe]

Pretty accurate.

[Wilsonista]

The latter supposedly stolen by disgruntled Landy employees.

[Jay]

I think it's more then fair to say that Luther and Jay are refearing to people that brag and probably don't have anything.

As if owning a rare recording gives you some credit similar to that of the artists themselves.

That's exactly what I meant in my post. There are a lot of people that have uncirculated material, but some of them don't always act like a "fan" should, in my opinion. I'm talking about the people that think "I have something that you don't! HAHAHA!!!". People like them aren't true fans...just greedy, arrogant SOB's.

[Mr. Wilson]

The latter ..?? The Smile stuff ..?? I may be wrong but i heard that an insider copied it and gave it to another insider..{DJ}
And he copied it  for 1 person + there ya go...But its just something i read on internet in 2001...I thought Landy"s people stole Sweet Insanity tapes..!! ??

[Jay]

I read that supposedly Lindsay Buckingham unwittingly circulated some Smile tracks.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Unwittingly?! How in the hell does that happen?

[Jay]

Well, John Lennon did the same thing with the Beatles "Get Back" session tapes, that turned into the "Let It Be" album. He was kind enough to give an acetate to a DJ friend of his, who gave a copy to his friend...who gave a copy to his friend, etc. Within a few months, the very first Beatles bootleg was pressed.