Brian's voice

[Swamp Pirate]

Everyone ages differently.  I saw Lou Christie a few months back on one of those PBS oldies revue shows and he still has a good falsetto.  Just curious, how's Frankie Valli's holding up these days.

Brian's voice sounds appropiate for his age.  My question is: if they rearranged the songs (most notably- Don't Worry Baby) to a lower key, could Brian hit the notes?

[the captain]

Well there are two issues. One is range, but the other is reliability of pitch. I think bw would do better with a song in a lower key, but live, he'd still have off days. That's just something we have to accept: sometimes he's off, these days.

[Pretty Funky]

To be sure you're clear here, we're talking about Elton John having throat surgery. Not BW.

Duh!

I shall read slowly
I shall read slowly
I shall read slowly

(100 times)

[donutbandit]

I saw Burton Cummings and Randy Bachman on PBS recently. Burton has lost most of his upper range, even though, like Brian, he can still do the buzz so you know who he really is. Burton is 60, and he's been a heavy smoker/drinker/drug user most of his life, like Brian.

BTW, this a fabulous song and a fabulous performance:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=V1ZZgG3dbsU

I'm 55, haven't smoked since I was 20, drink some, but don't do drugs, and I've lost a good part of my upper range. My heart tells me "just practice and it will come back" but my head tells me "it's over, baby."

Age kills the voice. Too many singers killed it before it's time. I read something somewhere years ago where Eric Clapton admitted using cocaine to make his voice rougher, so it would be more hip.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I'm a pretty decent singer,despite being a heavy smoker of various things (!), and I've noticed that my range has actually increased. Sadly, though, the smoking has killed my falsetto (one of the reasons why I've decided to give up the cigs), although I can sing higher using my "regular" singing  voice then I could even 5 years ago. My speaking voice, though, has gotten noticeably lower.

[Chris Brown]

I'm a pretty decent singer,despite being a heavy smoker of various things (!), and I've noticed that my range has actually increased. Sadly, though, the smoking has killed my falsetto (one of the reasons why I've decided to give up the cigs), although I can sing higher using my "regular" singing  voice then I could even 5 years ago. My speaking voice, though, has gotten noticeably lower.

That's interesting...obviously the smoking will have some sort of detrimental effect, but increasing your normal range is surprising.  How old are you?  Usually an increase in range happens in younger years, when you are still able to practice and improve things rather than fighting against nature.  It's always a good thing though, even if your falsetto is gone.  At least you can make up a part of the difference.

My Mom has been a singer for many years, and smoking for 35 years definitely took a toll on her range.  She sings in a low alto now, and I can sing higher than her easily.  When she was my age (I'm 23), she was still an alto but could hit some higher notes.  So between the smoking and age, she has lost a fair amount of her range.  Her voice isn't as clear as it used to be either, although I suppose that could be just as much due to age as the smoking.  It's frustating for her though, especially now that she's at a point where she really can't ever get it back.  She always says that she wishes she had the range and tone that she used to have, but along with the improvements in her singing technique up to this point (if that makes any sense at all). 

That's why I do everything I can to try and preserve my voice...I've never smoked anything (I probably wouldn't anyways even if I didn't sing) and I try to stretch my voice by singing higher stuff than I'm really comfortable with.  The problem I have is that I have a naturally low speaking voice, so singing higher can be a bit of a struggle.  I have a decent falsetto, but it doesn't come easily like it did to Brian or Elton John; I have to work at it, and even though I hit the notes, I usually hate how it sounds.  I'm fighting against nature really...but like I said the nice thing about being younger is that I can still grow and improve my range, and enjoy it for hopefully 10-15 years before time starts to take its toll. 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

That's interesting...obviously the smoking will have some sort of detrimental effect, but increasing your normal range is surprising.  How old are you?  Usually an increase in range happens in younger years, when you are still able to practice and improve things rather than fighting against nature.  It's always a good thing though, even if your falsetto is gone.  At least you can make up a part of the difference.

29 . Oddly, my range  is better now then when I was in my early 20s, when I actually sang regularly  compared to now when I just sing to my  daughter or just jack around.

Back to Brian...one thing about his live singing is that you have to remember that he's not only deaf in that one ear, but I'm sure his hearing in his good ear isn't as good as it once was, mainly due to age. So that would affect his pitch a bit, I'd imagine. That said, he sounds GREAT on many of the TLOS shows I've heard, even singing some of the high parts pretty well.

[Jay]

Speaking of BW's voice, I was just listening to "This Isn't Love" from the "Roxy" cd, and I was very surprised. Brian sounded very good, in my opinion. It's not quite falsetto, but it's getting there. Hell, it's ten times better than I could ever do, and I'm only 22. 

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Honestly, non of the Beach Boys sang 'correctly'. Don't get me wrong, I love their singing. But most pop/rock singers don't. I think that if one uses their diaphram properly, the voice is much less strained. I have seen some opera singers in their 60s or 70s who still sound amazing. Plus from my own experience, when I sing the right way, my throat doesn't hurt. Just exausted from the type of breathing it takes to support. But after singing like the Beach Boys for awhile, it can start to hurt a bit.

[bossaroo]

Instead of double-tracking, he's quadruple-tracking parts (according to himself, as far back as OCA) in order to make them sound fuller.

i think this is the trick Buffett was referring to... not the doubling of parts, but the quadrupling... of ALL the background vocals.

[Eric Aniversario]

Everyone ages differently.  I saw Lou Christie a few months back on one of those PBS oldies revue shows and he still has a good falsetto.  Just curious, how's Frankie Valli's holding up these days.

Brian's voice sounds appropiate for his age.  My question is: if they rearranged the songs (most notably- Don't Worry Baby) to a lower key, could Brian hit the notes?

I saw Frankie Valli at a multi-artist benefit concert in 2005, I think, and he sounded great.  In fact, he came on before Mike & Bruce, who were having some serious sound problems that night, and the audience response to Frankie was 10x more thunderous than for Mike & Bruce.  Frankie's backup vocalists are obviously lip-synching, but Frankie's vocals seem to be live, and are very close to the original vocals.

[mikeyj]

2) Brian's lead on "She Knows Me Too Well" sounds double-tracked to me. In fact, I'd bet Jimmy Buffett's life on it. And so, sorry, mikeyj. it isn't "without any overdubs."

Sorry Luther.... I just read that somewhere, but you are probably right.

[Ron]

5) Reminder: Jimmy Buffett is really, really bad.

I just can't agree.  Cheeseburger in paradise is bad, but stuff like Come Monday and 'he went to paris' or whatever are pretty good!  Even "fins" is pretty good.  He's got at least 5 good songs.  LOL

[Ron]

I watch a TON of PBS concerts, and I want to point out that I don't think age attacks your tone but only your range, particularly the high end of your range.  There are 100's of singers who are in their 60's and 70's and can basically outsing the original track they recorded in the 50's or 60's.  TONS of them, but not that many that sang high, and certainly there weren't many people that sang as high as Brian did in the first place.

Guys like Andy Williams still sound everybit like they did in the 50's and 60's.  I'm not a big Andy Williams expert or anything but I saw him on something and he was amazing.  Guys like Jerry Butler still sound exactly like they used to, etc.  Lou Christie as mentioned still sounds great... Little Anthony is a walking jukebox, he's even still killing acapella stuff live with the imperials, who are all ancient.   

[the captain]

Instead of double-tracking, he's quadruple-tracking parts (according to himself, as far back as OCA) in order to make them sound fuller.

i think this is the trick Buffett was referring to... not the doubling of parts, but the quadrupling... of ALL the background vocals.

Considering it's no more complicated or unknown than double-tracking, I doubt that just as much as I doubted that it was double-tracking.

[Ron]

If Brian has a 'trick', it's his incredible ear for Harmony.  Everybody's probably read the story from Linda Rondstat when she talked about recording with Brian... Brian was laying the harmonies down, and then when he needed one last 'layer', he went over the the piano and played some crazy fast boogie woogie stuff like he likes to play, and sang a harmony line over the piano.  He goes back to the multi track and even though the song is much slower and a love song, the harmony fits in perfectly. 

Now *THAT*, is a trick!  You can see him do it on the little video they staged (maybe) on his website of him recording his Christmas album. 

[the captain]

That post captures the spirit of my thoughts on the "trick." That is, there isn't one. Brian is immensely gifted, has taught himself a lot over the years, has learned a lot over the years, and is good at writing, arranging and producing. There isn't a trick that Buffett (I still shudder even thinking of that name...so, so terrible) or anyone else could pick up and understand the secret. Yeah, there are doubtless dozens of things BW and any other experienced musician does that are cool. But "the trick"? Nah. It was just B.S. for the cameras. I'm as sure of it as a person who wasn't there and isn't privy to inside info can be.

[Amy B.]

I'm as sure of it as a person who wasn't there and isn't privy to inside info can be.

That about sums up Brian Wilson fandom right there!   

[Ron]

That post captures the spirit of my thoughts on the "trick." That is, there isn't one. Brian is immensely gifted, has taught himself a lot over the years, has learned a lot over the years, and is good at writing, arranging and producing. There isn't a trick that Buffett (I still shudder even thinking of that name...so, so terrible) or anyone else could pick up and understand the secret. Yeah, there are doubtless dozens of things BW and any other experienced musician does that are cool. But "the trick"? Nah. It was just B.S. for the cameras. I'm as sure of it as a person who wasn't there and isn't privy to inside info can be.

I agree mostly, but I honestly feel there are things that set Brian apart from any experienced musician.  I'm not saying he's the greatest of all time or anything, but he certainly approaches music, composition, and harmonic arrangements different than anybody else... and it's not something that can be taught, he has his own spin on things that is uniquely his and can be often imitated but never duplicated.  It takes him to great achievements and is also what weighs down some of his music. 

[absinthe_boy]

Much of what Brian does in the studio, be it recording producing or even writing probably comes naturally to him. His approach is different because he's taught himself and always had an interest in production and obviously a talent for it. He probably couldn't explain what it is that he does which is different to the "norm" because to Brian...what he does is "the norm".

As for cigarettes and voices, I know Phil Collins was told by his singing coach in the late 70's to give up the cigs or lose the ability to sing professionally. Some people are luckier than others. I know when I have been around people who are smoking, the next day my vocal range is the same "size" but transposed about half an octave down.

Virtually all adult males will have gaps in their range. Pavarotti often said that even the best opera singers have gaps, the trick is to know where they are and now to avoid the gaps so that nobody knows.  I would however wager that Brian in the mid 60's had smaller gaps than even most opera singers.

Today, for a man who is 65, Brian Wilson's voice is damned good...his singing voice is mostly intact. When you factor in the substance abuse and tobacco smoking and emotional turmoil he's been through...its quite amazing.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Today, for a man who is 65, Brian Wilson's voice is damned good...his singing voice is mostly intact. When you factor in the substance abuse and tobacco smoking and emotional turmoil he's been through...its quite amazing.

If his voice is 'mostly intact' - which I seriously doubt, and I've seen well over 20 BW gigs from 2002 to this year - then 90% of the time he's being very lazy about how he uses it. Brian gets cut a lot of slack because he's, well, Brian Wilson: I think it's instructive that we have to make a point of praising him when he hits a note properly, or even a whole phrase.

[Ron]

Yeah, I think a lot of it is laziness.  I can prove this by pointing to how a bunch of shows are great, a bunch are horrible.  There's no way the quality of his voice changes wildly from night to night, he just has some nights when he wants to sing and some when he doesn't. 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I agree about the laziness problem. Hell, that explains the GIOMH vocals right there.  I wouldn't say it's mostly intact, but he still sounds pretty good...when he cares. Notice how much better the vocals for "Live Let Live" are live compared to the studio version...guess Brian likes those lyrics better than VDP's.  It's obvious when Brian is actually trying and when he's not.  That said, he really shouldn't try to do "God Only Knows" anymore, as he completely butchers it much of the time for at least the past 4 years or so.

[Aegir]

I actually think Brian's vocals sound better in the studio version (besides the really high parts like "we would implore").

[MBE]

His voice sounded very good (but nothing like his pre 1975 voice) when I saw him in 1999 and 2004. A lot of people consider those his best tours though so I guess I got lucky. GIOMH doesn't sound nearly as bad to me as his vocals (outside his 1988 solo album) of the Landy era. Yet I have heard live cuts from the last year or two that show he is getting pretty darn lazy on stage. Especally on the oldies.

One point I think I should make is that outside of one or two cuts from the mid 90's Paley tapes, and a few from the MIU era, I don't think Brian has been all that great of a singer since 1975.  Not always bad, sometimes pleasent, but nothing that would stick out to where someone could call him a great vocalist. Now don't get me wrong before 1975 I think he was one of the very best there was.