Gettin' in Over My Head

[Matinee Idyll]

One song on the album varies to great - the title track.

One song on the album varies to OK - Soul Searchin'.

The rest, Mr. Doe is quite right.

[Sir Rob]

No, the songs you mentioned plus Desert Drive, Saturday Morning In The City (my favourite on the album) and The Waltz are all great.  HCWSBD - the 'hey everybody' chorus is wonderful - shame he had EJ singing the verses.  City Blues is good but ruined by EC's guitar.  Have to say I'm not overly keen on the Sweet Insanity tracks.  I hated 'A Friend Like You' when I first heard it but it's assumed a strange, though admittedly wimpish, charm since.  Fairy Tale I'm not that mad on.  You Touched Me is pleasantly OK.  Can't think of anything else for the moment.  As ever, I know this is all a matter of opinion but I just find it hard to see how any BW/BB fan could hate this album so intensely. 

[JoeP]

It's a good album. Not everything Brian does has to be magical or brilliant.  Brian is allowed to make, simply, an album that is fun.. with some average songs, some good, and likely with a few weaker ones.  Most of the songs on this one though, are pretty decent.  I love Brian with Clapton and Elton.  The Mccartney one is ok, the Waltz is great.

[Evenreven]

I like Soul Searchin', the title track, Saturday morning and Desert Drive. And the first three were better on the Paley sessions.

2 1/2

[Sir Rob]

I like Soul Searchin', the title track, Saturday morning and Desert Drive. And the first three were better on the Paley sessions.

2 1/2

I agree with that about the Paley sessions.  There was a very good album in there.

[RobtheNobleSurfer]

You're WAY in the minority of one with that opinion here, but good luck, my friend!

Ten years ago, Artie's view was in the vast majority.

[RobtheNobleSurfer]

I ended up giving this one a 2.  While the album itself is nearly unlistenable, there ARE good songs on here.  They're hard to find underneath all the bad production and lack of band vocals, but they're there. 

It's better then LBWL.

No, it's not. LBWL is inoccuous and mostly enjoyable  fluff. GIOMH sucks like a turbocharged vacuum  in warp drive. I just listened to it, and now, I'm going to wash out my ears.

Andrew, why are you going out of your way to trash this record? You've so far said how much "this sucks", but you didn't back up your arguments. Or are you saving that for the next edition of your book?

And I happen to think that LBWL is a festering piece of horseshit.

[Jason]

Andrew, why are you going out of your way to trash this record? You've so far said how much "this sucks", but you didn't back up your arguments. Or are you saving that for the next edition of your book?

And I happen to think that LBWL is a festering piece of horsemerda.

Maybe he just likes LBWL better than GIOMH. Is that so hard to wrap yourself around? I like LBWL better than GIOMH, and I can back up my argument. LBWL moves me, GIOMH doesn't.

[RobtheNobleSurfer]

[
Maybe he just likes LBWL better than GIOMH. Is that so hard to wrap yourself around?


Yes, I do. I've heard LBWL and have tried to like it, but I don't. Mike by himself is not a good thing. He doesn't and never did have the talent to sustain a reord without considerable help (from Brian back in their heyday and ,later on, Carl).


 I like LBWL better than GIOMH, and I can back up my argument. LBWL moves me, GIOMH doesn't.

Wonderful! I'd like Andrew to do the same in grester detail, because I truly am baffled as to why anyone would say that GIOMH could be considered the worst BB solo record and the worst record Brian made ever When that honor SHOULD  go to Imagination.

[Jason]

Wonderful! I'd like Andrew to do the same in grester detail, because I truly am baffled as to why anyone would say that GIOMH could be considered the worst BB solo record and the worst record Brian made ever When that honor SHOULD  go to Imagination.

Andrew isn't just whistling Dixie by saying that. I had high hopes for GIOMH too. He had high hopes, I'm sure. Brian didn't just "not deliver", he totally failed at his attempt. He made the biggest joke album release of 2004, an album that never should have been released. I gave it a 3 because I'm really forgiving and like a few tunes on there, but I'll listen to LBWL over GIOMH any day of the week.

As far as Imagination is concerned, yeah, that's not much better, but Brian was actually saddled with some halfway decent material on there. I don't think he'll ever reach the height he reached on the self-titled album.

[the captain]

I'm not speaking for Andrew, but I believe his previous statements have said that the reason he dislikes it so much is the obvious lack of care Brian gave his vocals. I think I recall Andrew also saying that Brian didn't have much or any say in what was included as far as the material, but I may be remembering incorrectly there.

As for me, I agree that Brian's vocals are horribly shoddy through most of GIOMH and he should've used his backing band to do backgrounds throughout the disc instead of just on one track, but I prefer its material and instrumental production by far over Imagination, so I agree that it beats that late 90s clunker.

[RobtheNobleSurfer]

Wonderful! I'd like Andrew to do the same in grester detail, because I truly am baffled as to why anyone would say that GIOMH could be considered the worst BB solo record and the worst record Brian made ever When that honor SHOULD  go to Imagination.

Andrew isn't just whistling Dixie by saying that. I had high hopes for GIOMH too. He had high hopes, I'm sure. Brian didn't just "not deliver", he totally failed at his attempt. He made the biggest joke album release of 2004, an album that never should have been released. I gave it a 3 because I'm really forgiving and like a few tunes on there, but I'll listen to LBWL over GIOMH any day of the week.

And again, I can't really fathom how anyone could call it the biggest joke release of 2004. I'm not saying it's great and I'm not even saying it's good. But the worst?

As far as Imagination is concerned, yeah, that's not much better, but Brian was actually saddled with some halfway decent material on there. I don't think he'll ever reach the height he reached on the self-titled album.

Let's go to Imagination. The only really good songs are the title track, the Sherry She Needs me remake, Lay Down, Burden, Cry and Happy Days.  If I had to compile a list of the best songs from Sweet Insanity and the Paley tapes, it would look an awful lot like the track list of GIOMH. So, on a song by song basis, that alone, for me makes GIOMH better than Imagination.  The fact that Joe Thomas ruined Imagination with that overly slick , homogenous production makes it inferior to GIOMH - say what you will about the 2004, at least it SOUNDS like a Brian Wilson record. Imagination sounds like Brian guesting on a Kenny Loggins record!  GIOMH sounds like it was made in a vacuum, completely devoid of the current trends and fashions. Records from the early 1960's sounds a lot closer to GIOMH than they do Imagination. Imagination sounds like it's trying hard to reach the Celine Dion crowd with a little bit of the hot country audience.  Imagination panders, GIOMH doesn't.

The faults that everyone finds with GIOMH - the sloppy lead vocals and even sloppier background vocals are noted. I agree, the band should have done them and Brian should hvae done better leads. It would have improved it somewhat.  But even so, the worst Brian record? Not by a longshot!

[Matinee Idyll]

But Rob... the songs on GIOMH are terrible disregarding the performances.  The title track, Soul Searchin' being the two exceptions.

[the captain]

But Rob... the songs on GIOMH are terrible disregarding the performances.  The title track, Soul Searchin' being the two exceptions.

I can't agree with that. I dislike several of the songs--I'm not a fan of Make a Wish at all, and I think Fairy Tale is pretty annoying. A Friend Like You, likewise.

But I think the bulk of the rest of the album features better songs, start to finish (although I may be forgetting a clunker or two, as I don't have the album near me and haven't listened in a few weeks at least), than either of the previous studio solo albums. To me (and I think to many others), the biggest problem is really just Brian's vocals, as well as his perceived (actual?) lack of involvement in the decision-making behind the album.

I think the songs you named as good are good. But so, too, do I think Desert Drive is good--not groundbreaking, not excitingly experimental...good. City blues is one that I like. The lead-off track is a decent song. I even like You've Touched Me, with its fun little vocal outro.

The overwhelming issue for me is just the vocals. Brian's leads were mediocre and his backgrounds were often bad. Sometimes out of tune, almost always out of time, rough starts and finishes, no enunciations. Weak. The instrumental tracks were good, and finally produced so that the album sounded like it had actual, natural instruments instead of a Casio and a reverb unit. There is no way in hell I would take songs like Sunshine (although I like the coda) or Night Time or Let it Shine over these songs.

[Wirestone]

As near as I can tell, the only thing Brian has said he was out of the loop of on the album was the final sequencing. That's seldom the artist's perogative anyway.

If you just listen to the damn album, it's obvious that it;s a Brian Wilson production through and through. I have never understood and will never understand why an album featuring classic (and yes, I said classic) Brian songs like DLHKSAA, the title track and Rainbow Eyes was trashed by so many people.

Brian's vocals are not perfect. It's true. They're certainly more on point, and better phrased, than OCA though.

I think people judged GIOMH based totally on criteria separate from the album as it exists. First, Smile had been debuted mere months before. The tapes were out, and people were psyched. They totally expected something beyond brilliant from Brian. Instead, they got a group of older tunes with some warbly vocals.

Second, Imagination had grown in estimation since '98. Lord knows I was in the minority in defending that album when it came out, but I think many people expected Brian to sound like that on GIOMH. They expected s brilliant, flawless voal performance, buffed and shined. Brian does not deliver that. He sounds far more like the Brian of OCA or the rougher Paley sessions tracks.

Third, a group on internet tastemakers (and I include AGD in this) took it upon themselves to loudly trash this album at every opportunity. It became difficult for people who genuinely dug the album to say anything in its defense without being trashed as deaf, fanboys, or what have you. I don't know why they turned on Brian, but I suspect the overall easygoing vibe and relaxed, 50-ish nature of GIOMH annoyed them. It's an older man's album, no doubt about that. There's nothing cool or hip about it -- certainly not the AC guest stars (who, let's face it, would have been far more at home in the Imagination sound world) or the somewhat wonky Mertens string arrangements.

But you see, I never liked Brian because he was cool. I liked him because I liked his songs and I liked his kind of weird latter-day voice. GIOMH delivers both.

[the captain]

but I think many people expected Brian to sound like [Imagination] on GIOMH. They expected s brilliant, flawless voal performance, buffed and shined.

Yikes. I'd have been far more disappointed if that had been the case. Far, far more.

[RobtheNobleSurfer]

But Rob... the songs on GIOMH are terrible disregarding the performances.  The title track, Soul Searchin' being the two exceptions.

I think a lot of them are far better than what he did on IMAGINATION.  A Friend Like You is pretty lame, I will grant you that.  You've Touched Me was better in its original incarnation.  And Fairy Tale is just awful.  But the rest of the songs are pretty damn good.  Wilson/Paley and Sweet Insanity's better songs were chosen.  Those two batches of songs had some great stuff.

[Swamp Pirate]

All three non-Smile CD's have their inherent flaws.  Here's how I see it:

BW88 had the best songs.  I hated the cold, synthy music.  Brian's vocals were okay.  The background vox I didn't like.

Imagination had the best Brian and background vocals.  The music was..ehhh.  The first three songs (Your Imagination, She Says That She Needs Me, South American) and Cry are strong; the rest...ehhh.

GIOMH had the best music.  Some strong songs (Soul Searchin', GIOMH, City Blues, DLHKSAA).  Brian's vocals- not the greatest.  Backgrounds-ehhh.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

And see, I disagree. I think the album sucks, up until Dream Angel (although that one too is overproduced). The second half is much better, IMHO.

[RobtheNobleSurfer]

[

quote author=claymcc link=topic=48.msg11304#msg11304 date=1138605916]

If you just listen to the damn album, it's obvious that it;s a Brian Wilson production through and through. I have never understood and will never understand why an album featuring classic (and yes, I said classic) Brian songs like DLHKSAA, the title track and Rainbow Eyes was trashed by so many people.

I think the problem is  there's nobody covering for him when he decides that he wants to go home and eat steak. No Andy Paley, no Darian, and even no Joe Thomas to pick up the slack (although in Thomas's case, he put way too much of  his own stamp on Brian's music).

I think people judged GIOMH based totally on criteria separate from the album as it exists. First, Smile had been debuted mere months before. The tapes were out, and people were psyched. They totally expected something beyond brilliant from Brian. Instead, they got a group of older tunes with some warbly vocals.

I think Brian could have recorded  and released  the 2nd coming of Pet Sounds or Sunflower or even All Summer Long in 2004 prior to the release of  BWPS and  it still would  have poorly received.

Second, Imagination had grown in estimation since '98.

Imagination has not stood the test of time for me. And I was one of that album's few defenders too back in the day.  Joe Thomas really had no clue about what made Brian's music work and he showed it. Brian's classic style had none of the  "tasteful" instrumental "improvising" that Joe Thomas imposed on it (if  it weren't for Darian and Foskett, the live arrangements of BB classics would have had similar treatments). Paley and Darian know what made Brian's music great and they both certainly know how to improve his current music using ekements of his old style. Listen to Darian's version of Do You Have Any Regrets. Brilliant.  Why the Brian camp won't let Paley back on board or let Darian have a a greater hand in Brian's music, I'll never know.

 

Third, a group on internet tastemakers (and I include AGD in this) took it upon themselves to loudly trash this album at every opportunity. It became difficult for people who genuinely dug the album to say anything in its defense without being trashed as deaf, fanboys, or what have you. I don't know why they turned on Brian, but I suspect the overall easygoing vibe and relaxed, 50-ish nature of GIOMH annoyed them.

Well, Brian's concerts have been so well received because they were incredible. For the first time, fans were treated to performances that were respectful to both the music and the artist. Hopes were high for a studio album from Brian. Especially one recorded with the live band. For whatever reason, GIOMH's detractors did not find that.  And the stories about the album's making were not particularly encouraging.  There are stories of band members' being disappointed that takes that they felt were subpar were deemed "perfect" by a Brian who really didn't want to be making a record in the first place. Or a Brian who had just gotten bored with making a record.  That too, may well be coloring some fans' opinions of the record.

But you see, I never liked Brian because he was cool. I liked him because I liked his songs and I liked his kind of weird latter-day voice. GIOMH delivers both.

I like his old guy  voice too.

But  his music deserves better than the arrangements  and productions that GIOMH got. BWPS shows the miracles that Darian can work with Brian. Why not give Darian more of a role in Brian's music? Or why can't Melinda bury the hatchet with Andy Paley and let him work with Brian? If Imagination has lost favor with me over time, the Wilson/Paley stuff has  grown in estimation for me.  And Andy has gotten more out of Brian in the llast 20 years than anyone else has.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I for one would rather see a Wilson/Sahanaja collaborative album than a Wilson/Paley one, but maybe that's just me.

[Jason]

I gave Gettin' In Over My Head another listen today, and my opinion is a bit swayed now. Thanks to the knowledgeable discussions on this thread, I put my copy in the CD player for a spin. It's not THAT bad, but I don't think it's great. It's merely good. I stick behind the 3 I gave it before.

But it's far from Brian's best. I know the man can deliver stuff like this in his sleep.

[RobtheNobleSurfer]

That's cool.

I never said it was a masterpiece, hell I never even said it was good.  But I always felt this album has never been given a fair trial at all and I wanted to make sure that it did.

And jason I do agree with you, Brian can do better.

[the captain]

And jason I do agree with you, Brian can do better.

I doubt anyone would disagree with that--even people who really like it have to believe it.

[Andrew G. Doe]

As near as I can tell, the only thing Brian has said he was out of the loop of on the album was the final sequencing. That's seldom the artist's perogative anyway.

Brian has stated in interviews that he didn't choose the songs for the album.

Third, a group on internet tastemakers (and I include AGD in this) took it upon themselves to loudly trash this album at every opportunity. It became difficult for people who genuinely dug the album to say anything in its defense without being trashed as deaf, fanboys, or what have you. I don't know why they turned on Brian...

I don't consider myself a tastemaker, just a hard-worki- sorry, just a commentator, and what I said were my honest thoughts on the album, to wit, it sucks. And in this I'm not alone: some people intimately involved in the making of the album (no names, no pack drill) were bitterly disappointed with the finished product. As for people having trouble liking it, you try saying it's terrible and see what happens. Especially the Bloo, where any nay-sayers were told in withering tones that they just didn't "get" it - this may require a substantial readjustment of some people's outlook, but Brian Wilson is capeable of releasing rubbish. And he did. In my opinion, GIOMH is the worst BB solo album bar none... and the record-buying public agreed. One week at #100.