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Author Topic: new essay about PACIFIC OCEAN BLUE  (Read 5771 times)
MBE
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« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2007, 05:24:05 AM »

I find Lennon's album much more subjective in parts. Dennis' album is just as personal but no self indulgent screaming, or personal references weigh it down. John also was much full of  self pity. I like the sound of Lennon's album and his voice on it,  but I just cannot get into it subject wise. Dennis' is really much more complex and open to interpertation. Dare I say it, it's more intelligent.
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mikeyj
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« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2007, 05:50:20 AM »

Dare I say it, it's more intelligent.

I agree. I think Dennis's music did have a lot of intelligence. The Wilson brothers in particular were amazing record makers (I mean when you look at the entire recording process) because they knew how to get the right sounds for what they wanted to express. Of course I don't know this and there is no way of knowing that it is exactly how they felt but I can't see how a song like Thoughts of You could be any more perfect at expressing what Dennis was trying to express.
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Dancing Bear
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« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2007, 06:02:33 AM »

Dare I say it, it's more intelligent.

How about "it's not embarassing"?
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the captain
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« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2007, 07:14:22 AM »

My rankings (as of 11/07):

1. LA (Slick production is not always a bad thing...beautiful background vocals on each track...edges out POB just because everyone participates)
2. POB (I do think that this is a lost classic that deserves a wider audience)
3. In Concert (their best live album)
4. CATP/ST (a sentimental favorite...when I first heard this, it really clicked for me that they really did a lot of great music in the early 70's that went unappreciated)
5. Love You (unlike any other BB album)
6. Sunflower (not as much of a favorite as it used to be for me)
7. Surf's Up (my appreciation for this album has gone way up over the years)
8. MIU (weak songs, but definitely a fan of that warm sound)
9. Holland (this album is definitely less than the sum of it parts...it just doesn't come together)
10. Blondie Chaplin (vastly underrated...some potential hits on there if the album had been promoted)
11. Celebration (2nd album...fun, mindless pop.)
12. 15BO (Because of  the availability of the 45 versions of RNRM and It's OK on GH3, I don't ever bother with this)
13. Almost Summer Soundtrack (a couple of OK tracks)
14. Going Public (the disco Deirdre is OK)

Love the "as-of"! How wise that is...

I agree that slick production isn't always bad, btw. But I don't like many songs on LA, and that is a problem. I forgot CATP, which I'd put a bit below POB (although I like parts of it more than any of POB).
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Jon Stebbins
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« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2007, 09:50:14 AM »

I think Pacific Ocean Blue is definitely where the natural progression of Sunflower, Surf's Up, CATP and Holland was leading to. There are a couple of rungs on the progression ladder that went missing. 15 Big Ones was a step back, and Love You was a wonderful fall off the ladder into a pool of wacky Brian-ness. I think Love You shows that no matter what anybody else is doing there's always a chance Brian might come out of left field with something indescribably unique. But even though I love Love You, Pacific Ocean Blue is better, prettier, sadder, more ambitious and more mature, its fully formed and timeless. I think POB is the most progressive of all Beach Boys records other than Pet Sounds and Smile and it shares similarities with both of them. I think Dennis learned the big brother's secret, and that he had a similarly painful creative well to draw from. Pet Sounds and Smile are so progressive that they are almost witchcraft, and scary when you really think about it and examine the elements that went into them in the context of what was going on in music when they were made. POB is like a huge swell of emotion and power that came out of a lake bed that was supposedly drying up. I like the comment in that pop matters article about Dennis sounding like he was making a last stand. In a sense he was. It was the last creative stand of the Beach Boys. Everything that came later was either stunted and half formed, or dumbed down by its surroundings. POB is a fearless statement. One last blissful wave of Beach Boys magic.  It's a bit of a scary ride, but it's one that is moving forward.
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« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2007, 09:56:29 AM »

I think Pacific Ocean Blue is definitely where the natural progression of Sunflower, Surf's Up, CATP and Holland was leading to. There are a couple of rungs on the progression ladder that went missing. 15 Big Ones was a step back, and Love You was a wonderful fall off the ladder into a pool of wacky Brian-ness. I think Love You shows that no matter what anybody else is doing there's always a chance Brian might come out of left field with something indescribably unique. But even though I love Love You, Pacific Ocean Blue is better, prettier, sadder, more ambitious and more mature, its fully formed and timeless. I think POB is the most progressive of all Beach Boys records other than Pet Sounds and Smile and it shares similarities with both of them. I think Dennis learned the big brother's secret, and that he had a similarly painful creative well to draw from. Pet Sounds and Smile are so progressive that they are almost witchcraft, and scary when you really think about it and examine the elements that went into them in the context of what was going on in music when they were made. POB is like a huge swell of emotion and power that came out of a lake bed that was supposedly drying up. I like the comment in that pop matters article about Dennis sounding like he was making a last stand. In a sense he was. It was the last creative stand of the Beach Boys. Everything that came later was either stunted and half formed, or dumbed down by its surroundings. POB is a fearless statement. One last blissful wave of Beach Boys magic.  It's a bit of a scary ride, but it's one that is moving forward.

Wow! I couldn't have said it any better myself.  High Five
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the captain
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« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2007, 10:25:40 AM »

I think Pacific Ocean Blue is definitely where the natural progression of Sunflower, Surf's Up, CATP and Holland was leading to.

I think you're partly, but not quite completely, correct on that, Jon. POB is where Dennis was going through those albums, and in a way where the general vibe of the band was going. But the problem is, without the others along with him, the album suffers to my ears. (And let's be clear, from here on when I say things that are matters of taste as if they're fact, I'm giving my opinion. I just don't want to water down the post with "and I think" or "and it's my opinion" every single time. I realize many won't agree.)

The best thing about the Beach Boys during that period you're talking about--and even a few years earlier--was the diversity of sounds. There is a magic in hearing a quirky Brian song in there with a sincere, dramatic Dennis song, then an Al song, likely humorous or a cover, and one of Carl's mini-epics. In the Ricky/Blondie years, there were even more voices in the mix, both literally and in terms of songwriting. Sometimes those songs come together pretty well to make surprisingly cohesive albums despite their diverse parts, such as on Holland or Sunflower, or even Surf's Up. On CATP or 20/20, that wasn't so much the case.

What this has to do with POB is that POB was Dennis, and almost only Dennis. There are a couple Beach Boys co-writes, and I understand Carl can be heard doing backgrounds. But when I hear it, I think about how much better an album it could have been with input from the others. Maybe some of the songs would have taken significantly different form with input from the guys, maybe the others would've just added their voices to the harmonies, or their instruments according to Dennis' intentions. But either way, I think it's a richer album for it. And--don't shoot me, please--POB is just too much Dennis. Too much of his voice, too much of what I consider his melodrama. Half of POB plus half of the other guys' input (hopefully, in such a mythical world, with reinvigorated spirits and major contributions from his brothers, as opposed to the backward-facing MIU of the day) would have made an amazing album, an album that I could honestly call a favorite, a classic. While I like and respect POB, I can't call it those things.
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2007, 11:49:04 AM »

Interesting post, Luther. I agree with a lot of what you said. This is my take...

Many fans wish The Beach Boys would've taken the artistic direction that Dennis did with POB. I mean, he laid it all out there, and made it his art. I think the other guys could have gone that way - though not as good - because, around that time, the guys were experiencing a lot of the same problems as Dennis. If you look at it, within the next couple of years, ALL of their marriages disolved. To some extent, there was substance abuse, financial woes, and general craziness surrounding all of them.

So why didn't they follow Dennis? Basically, I just think they didn't want to. I don't think it had as much to do with "money" or going "back" to being the old Beach Boys. I think they just wanted to be happy again, and create something "positive". People hate when Mike Love spouts that, but I think he is being sincere. I love POB, but it can be a very depressing listen. Many of the songs are about loss and pain; even the title track is about "blues". That's not to say it isn't also inspirational and beautiful, because it is.

I think it was a conscious decision to go HAPPY, and that came out in the form of 15 Big Ones through MIU. That's what they knew best, including Brian, who needed a good dose of "happy" himself. I'm not saying they couldn't have been successful creating 1976 mature adult-sounding music, but that would've been more difficult, more painful, riskier. "It's OK" is positive and HAPPIER. The pain of break ups and whale killings would have to be put on hold.

The other guys just didn't have the desire that Dennis had to do a POB-like approach, other than maybe Brian. But, at that time, Brian was being led down the positive path to health. I just don't think the timing was right - in their personal lives - to follow Dennis...
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Dancing Bear
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« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2007, 12:56:26 PM »

Does anybody really think that the Beach Boys working on POB as a group album in 1976, all written by Dennis, is a realistic proposition? Compared to that, Brian finishing Smile in 1972 is a piece of cake.
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the captain
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« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2007, 01:20:22 PM »

Does anybody really think that the Beach Boys working on POB as a group album in 1976, all written by Dennis, is a realistic proposition?

No way. But I do think that if the group's dynamics were different, Dennis could've gotten, say, 4-6 songs or co-writes onto a Beach Boys album. And I'd sure have loved to hear those 4-6 songs. (Rainbows, River Song and Pacific Ocean Blues all include other Beach Boys as co-writers, and then maybe 22-3 other Dennis songs on this hypothetical album.) Obviously there's no way for it to have happened--after all, it didn't happen. For me, the music--and maybe sales--would've been better for both the band and Dennis had they all hung together and done such a thing, though.
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