Great song - coulda been better!

[thomasogg]

Perhaps Bruce should have called it: 'I Write The Songs Everyone Always Skips Passed'? Woulda been more fitting, no?

[shelter]

I am 99% sure it was a movie soundtrack album as I seem to remember picking it up but now have no idea what it could have been.

These are Bruce's only soundtrack credits on IMDb:

Catch-22 (2007) (TV) ("Tears in the Morning")

"The Facts of Life" (1 episode, 1981)
    - Free Spirit (1981) TV Episode (writer: "I Write the Songs")

[melissalynn]

Wow, I must be the only person here who enjoys 'Nearest Faraway Place' and Bruce's 'Sunflower' contributions. Took me a while, but I kinda like them now.

[the captain]

I don't mind Bruce's Sunflower contributions. But as I think I made clear, I despise Nearest Faraway Place.

[melissalynn]

Yep, that's clear 

everyone has their own opinion. And honestly, I hated it until very recently.

[thomasogg]

The only Bruce song that I really care for is 'Disney Girls' which really is a beautiful tune!! Otherwise I'd much rather either of his two sentimental songs from 'Sunflower' had been replaced by the far more worthy 'Lady'. Or maybe 'San Miguel'. And yes, while I certainly don't depise it, I think 'Nearest Faraway..' is at best average. At a time when the band were striving to stay in the mainstream and be considered hip they really coulda done without this sort of elevator musak. For a great 20/20 instrumental see 'Mona Kanua' - great track!

In fact, while I'm on my usual Dennis'-songs-shoulda-been-on-their-albums-more trip, can I suggest the following line-up that I think they shoulda used for 'Surf's Up':
1. Don't Go near The Water
2. Long Promised Road
3. Disney Girls
4. 4th Of July
5. Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again

6. Feel Flows
7. Lookin' At Tomorrow
8. A Day In The Life Of A Tree
9. 'Til I Die
10. Surf's Up

Come on, better than Pet Sounds no? What a line-up! If only Jack Rieley coulda just told Mike and Al 'no way' to SDT and 'Take a Load..', and Carl and Dennis coulda agreed on the track-listing... Bummer.

[the captain]

In fact, while I'm on my usual Dennis'-songs-shoulda-been-on-their-albums-more trip, can I suggest the following line-up that I think they shoulda used for 'Surf's Up':
1. Don't Go near The Water
2. Long Promised Road
3. Disney Girls
4. 4th Of July
5. Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again

6. Feel Flows
7. Lookin' At Tomorrow
8. A Day In The Life Of A Tree
9. 'Til I Die
10. Surf's Up

Come on, better than Pet Sounds no? What a line-up! If only Jack Rieley coulda just told Mike and Al 'no way' to SDT and 'Take a Load..', and Carl and Dennis coulda agreed on the track-listing... Bummer.

Not better than Pet Sounds, I don't think, but a damn fine album. By the way, below is (an admittedly wholly fraudulent) reposting of your previously stated preferred track list for Love You:

1. River Song
2. What's Wrong
3. Moonshine
4. Friday Night
5. Dreamer
6. Thoughts of You
7. Time
8. You and I
9. Pacific Ocean Blues
10. Farewell My Friend
11. Rainbows
12. End of the Show

[thomasogg]

Huh? I genuinely don't get it.... Sorry. I've never posted a desired 'Love You' tracklisting, or am I perhaps missing the gag? If you mean, do I think the BB's would have been better served releasing 'POB' as the next official BB release after '15 Crap Ones' rather than 'Love You', then YES!! Absolutley!!

[the captain]

Huh? I genuinely don't get it.... Sorry. I've never posted a desired 'Love You' tracklisting, or am I perhaps missing the gag? If you mean, do I think the BB's would have been better served releasing 'POB' as the next official BB release after '15 Crap Ones' rather than 'Love You', then YES!! Absolutley!!

It was a joke. You're a self-admitted Dennis lover. I posted a fake quote to suggest you'd replace the entire album with the POB tracklist.

[mikeyj]

Huh? I genuinely don't get it.... Sorry. I've never posted a desired 'Love You' tracklisting, or am I perhaps missing the gag? If you mean, do I think the BB's would have been better served releasing 'POB' as the next official BB release after '15 Crap Ones' rather than 'Love You', then YES!! Absolutley!!

Haha, yep you're missing the gag. But in all seriousness thomasogg, would you say a song like Surf's Up and 'Til I Die is anything better that Dennis wrote? I'm a Dennis fan too, and I think if he had been given encouragement (like Brian had in the early days - including by the public) then who knows what might have happened? And I know you're biased towards Dennis which is fine but is there ANY songs of Brian's that you think is beyond what Dennis came up with?

[thomasogg]

LOADS!!! Of course! Not one member of the band ever came up with anything the equal of 'God Only Knows' or, in particular, the best of the SMiLE material (from where, of course, 'Surf's Up' originates) - but this site is full of people endlessly singing Brian's praises, sometimes when it's perhaps not overly-deserved (at least half of 'Love You'), so I think Dennis' amazing songwriting talents should be highlighted whenever possible. Anyway, what do you mean - I left both 'Til I Die' (which I adore) and 'Surf's Up' on my proposed tracklisting. I've said it before, Brian was a genius, but during this particular period in the band's history (1969 - 1973) Dennis was the most consistently great member of the band in terms of songwriting, even above either Brian or Carl. You really need to listen to not just his released material from this period, but also the wealth of fantastic unreleased/hard-to-obtain tunes he created around this time (to name but a few, 'Carry Me Home', 'Lady', 'I'm Going Your Way').
So anyway, that's what I think....

[thomasogg]

Or put it this way, does anyone disagree with me that the following albums would've been better with Dennis songs added at the exclusion of others? I give you:

20/20: Remove either 'Nearest Faraway..' or 'Bluebirds..' and replace with excellent, I Can't Believe It's Not Brian instrumental 'Mona Kanua'.

SUNFLOWER: Replace the ok 'Deirde' with the excellent 'San Miguel' (how many bands have songs of this quality in the vaults?) and the well-produced but twee 'At My Window' with the classic 'Lady'. A better album..?

SURF'S UP: See previous reply on this thread, but basically lose two clunkers (one a throwaway comedy B-side, the other a politically-dubious Mike Love crapfest) and replace with two classics.

HOLLAND: Remove nothing. Just add 'Carry Me Home' and stir.

Maybe you disagree, but use a bit of computer jiggery-pokery to mix the albums as above and you in for a treat! Whenever I record BB albums for unenlightened chums, which is often, I always give 'em the above albums with the above tracklistings. It's dishonest, but they're always impressed - something they might not be perhaps if sat listening to 'Take A Load Of Your Feet' and 'Bluebirds Over The Mountain'. (Incidentally I do actually quite like a number of the tracks I'm proposing for removal, despite their occasional rubbish-ness, but not enough that I'm not happy to sacrifice them for the greater good of humanity..)

[Aegir]

Wow, I must be the only person here who enjoys 'Nearest Faraway Place' and Bruce's 'Sunflower' contributions. Took me a while, but I kinda like them now.

I love them all. The Sunflower ones I loved immediately. My opinion of Nearest Faraway Place started as "boring" and only went up.

[thomasogg]

Yeh, his Sunflower songs are OK, but only OK, and why have cotten when you can have silk? Besides, I've just conducted an experiment involving several lab rats, a bunsen burner and some copper zinc, and the results actually prove that it is scientific FACT that 'Lady' is better than 'Deirdre' and 'San Miguel' better than 'Tears..'. And hey, you can't argue with science! (Unless you're some loopy creationist religious nutbag, but that's another story...)

[melissalynn]

"Lady" and "San Miguel" are a thousand times what Bruce's songs are. Just my opinion, of course...but I happen to agree with pretty much everything you've said, thomasogg.

[mikeyj]

LOADS!!! Of course! Not one member of the band ever came up with anything the equal of 'God Only Knows' or, in particular, the best of the SMiLE material (from where, of course, 'Surf's Up' originates) - but this site is full of people endlessly singing Brian's praises, sometimes when it's perhaps not overly-deserved (at least half of 'Love You'), so I think Dennis' amazing songwriting talents should be highlighted whenever possible. Anyway, what do you mean - I left both 'Til I Die' (which I adore) and 'Surf's Up' on my proposed tracklisting. I've said it before, Brian was a genius, but during this particular period in the band's history (1969 - 1973) Dennis was the most consistently great member of the band in terms of songwriting, even above either Brian or Carl. You really need to listen to not just his released material from this period, but also the wealth of fantastic unreleased/hard-to-obtain tunes he created around this time (to name but a few, 'Carry Me Home', 'Lady', 'I'm Going Your Way').
So anyway, that's what I think....

As has been mentioned before, I think people like Love You because it came right after 15 Big Ones and before that it had been 3 years since the latest Beach Boys album. Then look what came after, M.I.U. etc.. So it stands above all those other albums from 1976 onwards. Plus, although the lyrics are really weird in places, the songs are still great catchy songs and it was the last Beach Boys album that was one cohesive work. I think Dennis's songwriting talents are getting more recognition and most fans do recognise Denny's songwriting talents. Ask people on this board if they like POB? I wonder what percentage will say that they like it? I'd say atleast 80%. I agree Denny deserves more recognition and that angers me sometimes too, but I get equally angry when people say Dennis blew Brian away creatively between 1969-1973 because Brian collapsed after SMiLE and stayed in bed the whole time.

Brian still came up with great songs in that period, NOT just Dennis. Going from when Dennis started writing songs on Friends:
(Please correct me if Ive made an error)

== Friends ==
Brian had a hand in all songs except Little Bird (which used part of Child Is Father of The Man from SMiLE) and Be Still

Brian wins by far

== 20/20 ==
Brian (new): Do It Again, Time To Get Alone, I Went To Sleep (from Friends era - still after he had ''collapsed'')
Brian (old): Cabinessence, Our Prayer
Dennis: Be With Me, All I Want To Do, Never Learn Not To Love (not really written by Dennis)

Brian wins

== Sunflower ==
Brian: This Whole World, Add Some Music, All I Wanna Do, Our Sweet Love, Cool Cool Water, At My Window, Deidre
Dennis: Slip On Through, Forever, Its About Time, Got To Know The Woman

I still think Brian wins. Although he probably didn't help too much on Deirdre, the other songs he still wrote most of if I'm not mistaken?

== Surf's Up ==
Brian: Take A Load Off Your Feet, A Day In The Life of A Tree, Til I Die
Brian (old): Surf's Up
Dennis: No songs though of course he had "Lady", "WIBNTLA", "4th Of July" that remained unreleased

So Brian wins due to no Dennis songs which sadly don't count

== So Tough ==
Brian: You Need A Mess of Help, He Come Down, Marcella
Dennis: Cuddle Up, Make It Good

This is a close one but I would say Dennis

== Holland ==
Brian: Sail On Sailor, Funky Pretty
Dennis: Steamboat, Only With You

This is again a close one and I'm undecided as I love all four songs and it's hard to choose



Although I love Dennis's stuff I still think Brian came up with better stuff overall (whether new or old material...for example Til I Die had origins back in 68 if Im not mistaken but it was still around the time Dennis started writing songs).

The only time Dennis would surpass Brian I think is 1977 (POB and Love You)... while I love both albums POB is the better album in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I think if the band had allowed more creative freedom to Dennis then the band could have been WAY more successful (on a creative level) but equally the band missed out on some great Brian songs later on such as It's Over Now etc..

[Rocker]

Don't forget that Brian was far more experienced as a songwriter and Dennis was still experimenting. If he would've gotten more time and appreciation I think he could've written songs in Brian's league regularly. Imagine what great music the Beach Boys then would have made after "Love you" (which I love)

[the captain]

As has been mentioned before, I think people like Love You because it came right after 15 Big Ones and before that it had been 3 years since the latest Beach Boys album.

That theory doesn't account for the many people (such as myself) who weren't alive when 15BO or Holland came out and were either not yet alive or just recently born (again such as myself) when Love You came out. So the waiting for new product, improvement over previous release, or decline in quality after it doesn't really have a lot to do with people in my situation. I think a lot of people like Love You just because it's energetic, spirited, funny and full of catchy songs.

There are different kinds of fans who look for different kinds of things in their music. Obviously, anyone who is only interested in perfectly played and sung music will not like Love You, and that's fine. Anyone interested only in lyrical sophistication won't, which is fine, too (although those fans will have a tough time with most of the BBs catalogue!). Those who are interested in what I mentioned before--energy, spirit, humor, melody--and can overlook gruff voices, out of tune voices, and generally un-Beach Boys performances and production, may find a lot of value in it.

[mikeyj]

Don't forget that Brian was far more experienced as a songwriter and Dennis was still experimenting. If he would've gotten more time and appreciation I think he could've written songs in Brian's league regularly. Imagine what great music the Beach Boys then would have made after "Love you" (which I love)

I realise that. And Like I said I think the Beach boys would have benefited if they had allowed Dennis to include more of his songs on Beach Boys albums. All I was trying to say is that I'm sick of people saying "After SMiLE Brian went to bed and did nothing until 15 Big Ones and Dennis was by far the best songwriter in the band at that point"... I do agree though that Brian was by far the most experienced songwriter in the group and this obviously aided him in his songs he wrote around this time and that Dennis over those few years grew enormously (the most out of any member). I think as you say if Dennis had gotten more support (because he seemed to be a guy who needed some support) then who knows what may have happened, maby Dennis would have become like the former Brian (ie: writing + producing the majority of the songs on the albums)... because he showed real signs of promise throughout those albums... If only the band had given him support and if the public still actually appreciated the Beach Boys throughout this time.. I mean think about it... Friends (#126), 20/20 (#68) + Sunflower (#151) were all pretty big dissapointments in terms of chart success etc.. and some of Denny's best Beach Boys compositions were on those albums.. and then C&TP (#50) and Holland (#36) also weren't major hits either which featured four more Dennis compositions... And then an album full of oldies/most crap peaks at #8.. man some things in life aren't fair.

[mikeyj]

That theory doesn't account for the many people (such as myself) who weren't alive when 15BO or Holland came out and were either not yet alive or just recently born (again such as myself) when Love You came out. So the waiting for new product, improvement over previous release, or decline in quality after it doesn't really have a lot to do with people in my situation. I think a lot of people like Love You just because it's energetic, spirited, funny and full of catchy songs.

There are different kinds of fans who look for different kinds of things in their music. Obviously, anyone who is only interested in perfectly played and sung music will not like Love You, and that's fine. Anyone interested only in lyrical sophistication won't, which is fine, too (although those fans will have a tough time with most of the BBs catalogue!). Those who are interested in what I mentioned before--energy, spirit, humor, melody--and can overlook gruff voices, out of tune voices, and generally un-Beach Boys performances and production, may find a lot of value in it.

I agree Luther. I was just stating why SOME people like it, like obviously those who were around then (as you say), and I am certainly not one of them as I am one of the youngest members on this board. And for those who weren't around at the time, like I said in my post, the songs are just really catchy and as you say energetic and spirited.

I agree with your second paragraph too Luther. This album is FAR from what you would expect from The Beach Boys in previous efforts (or atleast before 15 Big Ones) but I think there is a certain charm in the music on Love You. I certainly couldn't accept it at first, but once you give it a chance the songs are really enjoyable. I can't really put my finger on it, but maby its the fact that I would much rather listen to it than say Pet Sounds when I'm either in a really upbeat mood or in a silly mood.

[Rocker]

Don't forget that Brian was far more experienced as a songwriter and Dennis was still experimenting. If he would've gotten more time and appreciation I think he could've written songs in Brian's league regularly. Imagine what great music the Beach Boys then would have made after "Love you" (which I love)

I realise that. And Like I said I think the Beach boys would have benefited if they had allowed Dennis to include more of his songs on Beach Boys albums. All I was trying to say is that I'm sick of people saying "After SMiLE Brian went to bed and did nothing until 15 Big Ones and Dennis was by far the best songwriter in the band at that point"...

I'm totally behind you on that. I wasn't trying to critisize anything you've said, just wanted to add my opinion. Sorry...

[mikeyj]

Don't forget that Brian was far more experienced as a songwriter and Dennis was still experimenting. If he would've gotten more time and appreciation I think he could've written songs in Brian's league regularly. Imagine what great music the Beach Boys then would have made after "Love you" (which I love)

I realise that. And Like I said I think the Beach boys would have benefited if they had allowed Dennis to include more of his songs on Beach Boys albums. All I was trying to say is that I'm sick of people saying "After SMiLE Brian went to bed and did nothing until 15 Big Ones and Dennis was by far the best songwriter in the band at that point"...

I'm totally behind you on that. I wasn't trying to critisize anything you've said, just wanted to add my opinion. Sorry...

Don't be sorry. I know you weren't criticising anything I said. I just thought you misunderstood me... Maby it was me misunderstanding you?...No harm done

[thomasogg]

Maybe a good way to settle this particular dispute would be for us all to just agree that I'm right about everything, always. Just a thought....

[the captain]

thomasogg, you made another typo. You accidentally seem to have misspelled "Luther is" as "I'm".

[Beach Boy]

Good return.