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Author Topic: Dennis Wilson solo recordings  (Read 28192 times)
Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #50 on: October 09, 2007, 01:03:04 PM »

The main reason DW's solo tour was canceled is that a majority of BB's gave him an ultimatum...do the tour and you're out of the band.

Very interesting, Jon. I'm surprised the band wouldn't have jumped at the opportunity to unload the baggage that Dennis had become, and simply inserted Bobby Figueroa, like they did with Hal Blaine (and others) in the studio, and Ricky Fataar on the road.

So Dennis chose to stay with the Mike Love-led Beach Boys, performing in the "traveling jukebox", with a group that was working on Merry Christmas From The Beach Boys and later MIU, instead of devoting his energies to his art, and music that came from his heart and soul, because....
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the captain
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« Reply #51 on: October 09, 2007, 01:12:02 PM »

The first guess that would come to mind would be the income.
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #52 on: October 09, 2007, 01:39:56 PM »

The first guess that would come to mind would be the income.

The dickens you say.

Now, if we were discussing Mike Love, people would've jumped at that answer. But I was asking about Dennis Wilson, who unlike Mike, had artistic integrity. Didn't Dennis rebel against the oldies? Why choose them over his own art?

Also, if Jon's point is correct, and I'm not doubting it is, it's kind of sad that Brian, Carl, and Al would threaten to throw old Dennis out of the group, just because he wanted to "step outside" the group for a little bit, something Mike Love did with Celebration and Carl Wilson did three short years later.
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the captain
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« Reply #53 on: October 09, 2007, 02:32:18 PM »


Now, if we were discussing Mike Love, people would've jumped at that answer. But I was asking about Dennis Wilson, who unlike Mike, had artistic integrity. Didn't Dennis rebel against the oldies? Why choose them over his own art?

Maybe someday people will realize that musicians are 3-dimensional people, not simple caricatures of types we've assigned. (Paul's the cute one; John's the smart one; Ringo's the funny one; and George is the quiet one.) Art is a wonderful thing, and I have no doubt Dennis was chasing his artistic muse. But a person can only focus on, produce and distribute his art (not to mention support his lavish lifestyle) if someone's paying the bills.
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #54 on: October 09, 2007, 02:45:45 PM »


Now, if we were discussing Mike Love, people would've jumped at that answer. But I was asking about Dennis Wilson, who unlike Mike, had artistic integrity. Didn't Dennis rebel against the oldies? Why choose them over his own art?

Maybe someday people will realize that musicians are 3-dimensional people, not simple caricatures of types we've assigned. (Paul's the cute one; John's the smart one; Ringo's the funny one; and George is the quiet one.) Art is a wonderful thing, and I have no doubt Dennis was chasing his artistic muse. But a person can only focus on, produce and distribute his art (not to mention support his lavish lifestyle) if someone's paying the bills.

Amen, brother! I like what you said about the "simple caricatures" we've assigned. I see a lot of that...
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Jon Stebbins
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« Reply #55 on: October 09, 2007, 03:43:01 PM »

The main reason DW's solo tour was canceled is that a majority of BB's gave him an ultimatum...do the tour and you're out of the band.

Very interesting, Jon. I'm surprised the band wouldn't have jumped at the opportunity to unload the baggage that Dennis had become, and simply inserted Bobby Figueroa, like they did with Hal Blaine (and others) in the studio, and Ricky Fataar on the road.

So Dennis chose to stay with the Mike Love-led Beach Boys, performing in the "traveling jukebox", with a group that was working on Merry Christmas From The Beach Boys and later MIU, instead of devoting his energies to his art, and music that came from his heart and soul, because....

From what I've heard from people who actually witnessed this ultimatum, the check and the stature certainly figured...but Dennis was an emotional and impulsive character and his reaction to stay in the group was more about family. Dennis was always looking for somewhere to belong and the BB's were his family. This is what I believe is the core of his reluctance to truly go solo. And BTW...Dennis was not "baggage" in 1977...he was the most popular Beach Boy at that time and functioning very well. But most insiders point to the ultimatum as the turning point in his demise. Its a complex thing that has as much to do with battered child syndrome as greed, cowardice, insecurity and fear of success, which all factor in as well. I have it on good authority that the vote was Mike, Al and Brian's vote(cast by someone other than Brian) against DW being allowed to tour, and Carl being the sole vote allowing him to do so. In fact Carl was rehearsing with Dennis for the tour, the rehearsal tapes exist...the set sounded incredible. Maybe we'll get lucky and a sample of them will surface on a future DW solo release.
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Wilsonista
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« Reply #56 on: October 09, 2007, 04:18:26 PM »

Jon, thank you.

Any theroies as to why Brian's vote was "hijacked"?
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Jon Stebbins
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« Reply #57 on: October 09, 2007, 04:59:57 PM »

From what I understand Brian did not vote starting sometime in 1976, his vote was cast by someone with his interests in mind. Whether that was Marilyn or Steve Love or Landy or whomever... I don't really know.
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« Reply #58 on: October 09, 2007, 05:56:21 PM »

From what I understand Brian did not vote starting sometime in 1976, his vote was cast by someone with his interests in mind. Whether that was Marilyn or Steve Love or Landy or whomever... I don't really know.

Not Landy by late '77, as he was gone by then.  I remember reading Brian gave his vote to Mike so Mike would leave him alone.   Whether that means literally ("I offically give Mike my voting proxy in all future votes") or figuratively ("I'll vote the same way as Mike just to shut him up"), I don't know. 
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Dancing Bear
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« Reply #59 on: October 09, 2007, 07:19:03 PM »

Man, those Wilson Brothers were really unlucky. Cancelled albums and tours, lack of support from bandmates... No wonder they tried to self-destruct with booze and drugs.
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« Reply #60 on: October 09, 2007, 08:39:01 PM »

You don't do snarky sarcasm that well.

Being a hard-workin' guy must suck when the f***-ups, slackers and cry babies get all of the credit that you so rightfully deserve!
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« Reply #61 on: October 09, 2007, 11:30:51 PM »

In fact Carl was rehearsing with Dennis for the tour, the rehearsal tapes exist...the set sounded incredible. Maybe we'll get lucky and a sample of them will surface on a future DW solo release.

You made me drool all over the keyboard.
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Dancing Bear
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« Reply #62 on: October 10, 2007, 12:41:18 AM »

You don't do snarky sarcasm that well.

It's good enough to make you throw your little tantrums.
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« Reply #63 on: October 10, 2007, 02:24:28 AM »

Now, if we were discussing Mike Love, people would've jumped at that answer. But I was asking about Dennis Wilson, who unlike Mike, had artistic integrity.

I don't know why you get so hung up about the 'everybody hates Mike Love' thing. Isn't it just a fact that everybody likes some people over others for whatever reasons. I mean I'll admit like I have countless times before that I love all three Wilson Brothers and therefore am biased towards them. Yes they made mistakes and were FAR from perfect, but aren't we all? And I am not Mike Love's biggest fan. Yes he wrote some great lyrics, yes I like his lead vocals and yes I think he is an incredible bass vocalist. But I just hate his attitude towards some things. Like he always seems to hold grudges against certain people and just seems so arrogant and self-centred to me. But like I said before nobody is perfect. I don't hate Mike Love and I appreciate his contribution to the band but he can sure annoy me sometimes and hence he is my least favourite Beach Boy.

Now you can't seriously tell me that you don't have people in life that you favour over others and therefore are more lenient to the wrong things that they do. Just accept it, it's a fact of life. For example if Brian Wilson assaulted somebody then I would be more likely to defend him over if Eminem assaulted someone. Now is that fair? I don't think so... But that's life.
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Cam Mott
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« Reply #64 on: October 10, 2007, 05:00:38 AM »

I must be confused, I thought the band was promoting/supporting Dennis' solo album with collaboration and from the stage and even letting Dennis front an act as part of their touring?  Did I make that up or confabulate it or how am I cocking that up?
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« Reply #65 on: October 10, 2007, 08:47:28 AM »

any good quality live recordings of "i've got a friend" exist? just thinking today about james taylor releasing "youve got a friend" round the time dennis would have composed "ive got a friend" and of course working on 2 lane together. must have stuck in dennis's head
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Jon Stebbins
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« Reply #66 on: October 10, 2007, 09:16:46 AM »

I must be confused, I thought the band was promoting/supporting Dennis' solo album with collaboration and from the stage and even letting Dennis front an act as part of their touring?  Did I make that up or confabulate it or how am I cocking that up?

No. DW front an act? What? There is anecdotal evidence that maybe the BB's played one or two songs from POB once at a concert in '77...but I have no actual proof of that. Is that what you meant? Collaboration? The song POB co-written with Mike is a 15 Big Ones leftover. Carl helped on the LP, but no other Beach Boy is on there...other than Bruce on one track and he wasn't a Beach Boy at the time. Please explain what you meant by promoting/supporting. If you meant Carl then yes, if you meant any of the others...no.
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« Reply #67 on: October 10, 2007, 10:23:50 AM »

It's a true shame (or sham) that Brian "gave" his vote away regarding the DW solo tour, rather than voting with Denny & Carl.  The Wilson Brothers would've been all-powerful had they voted together. 

And if the Al/Mike fued had just started a decade or two sooner, it might've been a four-to-one vote!

It just seems a crime that Mike was able to tour with Celebration the following year, but he didn't want Dennis touring solo!
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« Reply #68 on: October 10, 2007, 11:46:19 AM »

Wasn't there an issue between Dennis and Caribou, that he wanted the label to pay for a string section to join the tour? I THINK I remeber Roach mentioning it as one of the reasons that the tour was cancelled. BTW, I don't know the answer, if it's a myth let's kill it, please.  Smiley
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #69 on: October 10, 2007, 02:05:10 PM »

Now, if we were discussing Mike Love, people would've jumped at that answer. But I was asking about Dennis Wilson, who unlike Mike, had artistic integrity.

I don't know why you get so hung up about the 'everybody hates Mike Love' thing.

Fair question, mikeyj, and it deserves an answer. I apologize for going off-topic, though.

Honestly, I don't really care for Mike Love that much either. Like you, I appreciate all of his contributions to the group, which I think are many. And, like you, I think Mike can be annoying. But what has been bugging me recently is the hypocrisy and re-writing of Beach Boys' history by many posters.

It's the old cliche - people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Many of the people taking shots at Mike Love are short-sighted and hypocritical. A few examples:

Somebody who is defending Brian will say, "I saw Mike Love on TV recently and he was atrocious". Has this person seen Brian's catalogue of TV appearances over the last twenty years? Are they ignoring the deer-in-the-headlight looks, flubbing lyrics, and singing off key? But they're quick to take a shot a Mike.

Somebody defending Brian (and Al) will complain about Mike & Bruces' "oldies-filled setlist". If you take a good, in-depth look at ALL of the guys' setlists - Mike's, Brian's, even Al's - they are amazingly similar. I give Brian a lot of credit for performing Pet Sounds and SMiLE, but that was very temporary. Let's face it, they're ALL top heavy with the same Beach Boys' classic tunes. As a matter of FACT, Mike and Bruce's sets have been adding several "rarities" for the last 7-8 years. In my opinion, no one, no band EVER has displayed a setlist the likes of Mike and Bruce's over the last couple of years. 35-40 songs a night! And then, people will say they're just trying to keep up with Brian? They just can't win.

There are posters complaining that Mike's voice isn't what it used to be. This is true, but it's not said as a matter of fact, it is said as criticism. And this criticism comes from Brian backers/Mike bashers. If I was a Brian backer, I don't think I'd be complaining about the quality of other singers' vocals.

Posters are constantly belittling Mike Loves' lyrics. I can only respond by saying Brian Wilson (1988), Imagination, Getting In Over My Head, and All I Really Want For Christmas. And since I've mentioned those solo albums, are any of them "artistic statements". I don't think so, but then again, I'm not criticizing Mike Love for being a non-artist, when Brian's turning out stuff like that.

Al Jardine takes shots at Mike Love and people defend him. Al Jardine says some of the loopiest things I've ever heard, most 20/20 hindsight, most of it bitter. I don't think Al is in any position to be talking. Over the last 35 years, what outstanding musical contributions has Al Jardine made? But people side with Al like he's some kind of victim, and Mike is the bad guy.

Finally, mikeyj, there's the constant criticism that Mike Love is ALL about the money. As if he was the only one! They were all about the money. Drugs, alimony, child support, boats, and real estate all have a way of doing that to you. Why single out Mike Love? I will never be able to prove it. Many of the people are dead, and since Mike Love isn't the most popular person, many people are going to side with the Wilsons. In my opinion, I firmly believe that Brian, Dennis, Carl, and maybe Al were just as interested in "the money" when the various decisions were made in the mid to late 1970's. But it's easier to blame Mike Love for Endless Summer, 15 Big Ones, oldies setlists, throwing guys out of the band, and cheerleaders, because he didn't write "God Only Knows"...
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Smilin Ed H
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« Reply #70 on: October 10, 2007, 02:46:53 PM »

"Somebody who is defending Brian will say, "I saw Mike Love on TV recently and he was atrocious". Has this person seen Brian's catalogue of TV appearances over the last twenty years? Are they ignoring the deer-in-the-headlight looks, flubbing lyrics, and singing off key? "

I hope that's not the only evidence in defence of Brian!

A tad unfair, considering BW's psychological problems...
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Jon Stebbins
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« Reply #71 on: October 10, 2007, 02:53:47 PM »

Wasn't there an issue between Dennis and Caribou, that he wanted the label to pay for a string section to join the tour? I THINK I remeber Roach mentioning it as one of the reasons that the tour was cancelled. BTW, I don't know the answer, if it's a myth let's kill it, please.  Smiley

Yes I was told this was an issue back in '99, but a lot of new information has come to light in recent years proving to me it was more than just that.
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #72 on: October 10, 2007, 02:58:51 PM »

"Somebody who is defending Brian will say, "I saw Mike Love on TV recently and he was atrocious". Has this person seen Brian's catalogue of TV appearances over the last twenty years? Are they ignoring the deer-in-the-headlight looks, flubbing lyrics, and singing off key? "

I hope that's not the only evidence in defence of Brian!

A tad unfair, considering BW's psychological problems...

Ed, with all due respect, you're missing the point of my post. It wasn't to criticize Brian. It wasn't even to defend Mike. It was to say that if somebody is going to criticize Mike for something - even if the criticism is warranted - I wish they would first look at Brian (or the other guys) before they take a shot at Mike.

But since you brought up this particular issue, this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. You immediately came up with an excuse for Brian. AND YOU MIGHT BE RIGHT! But maybe Mike had laryngitis. Maybe the microphone was bad. Maybe the mix was bad. Maybe the TV reception was bad. Maybe Mike had a bad day. Maybe Mike sabotaged his voice by chain smoking! But there it is. Excuses for Brian. Mike is bad. 
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« Reply #73 on: October 10, 2007, 04:10:09 PM »

You say you're not out to criticize Brian Wilson, but you do so anyway. You can't come up with a suitable arguable in favor for Mike so what do you do? Jab at the other BB's faults whether they exist or not.

In Brian's case, what Ed *is* legitimate.  What's Mike's excuse?
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Alex
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« Reply #74 on: October 10, 2007, 09:58:01 PM »

You say you're not out to criticize Brian Wilson, but you do so anyway. You can't come up with a suitable arguable in favor for Mike so what do you do? Jab at the other BB's faults whether they exist or not.

In Brian's case, what Ed *is* legitimate.  What's Mike's excuse?
He's an ornery old fart who's always been jealous of the Wilson bros' talents, that's his excuse.
...well, not really. He just has a nasal singing voice that's gotten really unbearable since the second half of the 70s.
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