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Author Topic: Please help me with "Carnival of Sound"...  (Read 9221 times)
onkster
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« on: September 28, 2007, 09:02:09 AM »

Just tried listening to this last night, as I heard it was supposed to be the SMiLE of the Jan/Dean world.

Ouch!  This was painful.  Am I not giving it a chance?  Does the comparison to SMiLE just put up too many big expectations?

I don't want to miss out on something great, but by the time I got halfway thru Laurel and Hardy, I had to stop.

Please let me know if there's something here I just haven't unlocked!
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SloopJohnB
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« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2007, 03:18:10 AM »

Listen to "Hawaii" again. If you still aren't blown away, then I'm afraid no one will be able to help you...  Undecided
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Daniel S.
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« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2007, 12:27:38 AM »

How can you not dig 'Blowing My Mind' ?!?! If that had been released I swear to God it would've been a huge hit. Both versions are awesome, Glen Campbell singing lead and one with Jan Berry singing lead. Personally I prefer the version with Glen Campbell singing lead.
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roll plymouth rock
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« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2007, 04:43:21 PM »

i'd say take some lsd and then see if it still sucks. the arrangements are second to none on carnival of sound....its great. its no smile, but people seem to forget that smile is unique, and nothing else is quite the same. carnival of sound is pretty much just as cool as smile though in my books, and jan berry was doing it without hype fueling it...for personal use only. the 1966-68 L.A. crowd probably had some legendary 'listening' parties  3D
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Mark A. Moore
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« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2007, 02:42:34 PM »

Great responses here . . .

Remember, too, that some of the boots were made from poor quality acetates.

But you can't take the SMiLE comparison literally. "Carnival" just gives you an example of what Jan Berry and his collaborators were working on at the same time Brian was working on SMiLE.

"Carnival" has its own groovy vibe. I have the origial music scores . . . and they're amazing. The string arrangements alone for "Fan Tan" and "Love & Hate" are mind-boggling. (Nothing remotely like them on SMiLE, including "Fire"). A lot doesn't come through on the boots.

The vocalists were big-time A-Listers (studio-wise) . . . including Glen Campbell, Stan Farber, Ian Freebairn-Smith, Bob Zwirn, Ron Hicklin, Tom Bahler, Bob Tebow, B.J. Baker, Gwen Johnson . . . and others. (Go online and look up their credits).

Our Jan Berry Tribute album will feature seven tracks from "Carnival" (newly recorded, based on the original scores).

"Carnival of Sound" was a big expensive studio operation that fell apart (in terms of final production and release) due to legal and personal wrangling.

I've written an article, forthcoming in ESQ, that lays out what happened with "Carnival of Sound" and "Save For A Rainy Day" . . . There's an interlocking context there that's never been properly presented.

M.

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roll plymouth rock
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« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2007, 11:20:54 PM »

Great responses here . . .

Remember, too, that some of the boots were made from poor quality acetates.

But you can't take the SMiLE comparison literally. "Carnival" just gives you an example of what Jan Berry and his collaborators were working on at the same time Brian was working on SMiLE.

"Carnival" has its own groovy vibe. I have the origial music scores . . . and they're amazing. The string arrangements alone for "Fan Tan" and "Love & Hate" are mind-boggling. (Nothing remotely like them on SMiLE, including "Fire"). A lot doesn't come through on the boots.

The vocalists were big-time A-Listers (studio-wise) . . . including Glen Campbell, Stan Farber, Ian Freebairn-Smith, Bob Zwirn, Ron Hicklin, Tom Bahler, Bob Tebow, B.J. Baker, Gwen Johnson . . . and others. (Go online and look up their credits).

Our Jan Berry Tribute album will feature seven tracks from "Carnival" (newly recorded, based on the original scores).

"Carnival of Sound" was a big expensive studio operation that fell apart (in terms of final production and release) due to legal and personal wrangling.

I've written an article, forthcoming in ESQ, that lays out what happened with "Carnival of Sound" and "Save For A Rainy Day" . . . There's an interlocking context there that's never been properly presented.

M.




Hey Mark,

Do any good quality masters for any of the Carnival tracks exist, even in private hands? From the cuts I've heard from various sources, the arrangements are second to none and totally unique - in the same sense SMILE or The Millennium is unique. It was a really cool experiences discovering the COS of sound material, and once while talking with Phil Sloan about his relationship/work with J&D I got to talk a little about these tracks...cool stuff   Grin

And when can I get my hands on this issue of ESQ?
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Mark A. Moore
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« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2007, 10:03:15 PM »

Great responses here . . .

Remember, too, that some of the boots were made from poor quality acetates.

But you can't take the SMiLE comparison literally. "Carnival" just gives you an example of what Jan Berry and his collaborators were working on at the same time Brian was working on SMiLE.

"Carnival" has its own groovy vibe. I have the origial music scores . . . and they're amazing. The string arrangements alone for "Fan Tan" and "Love & Hate" are mind-boggling. (Nothing remotely like them on SMiLE, including "Fire"). A lot doesn't come through on the boots.

The vocalists were big-time A-Listers (studio-wise) . . . including Glen Campbell, Stan Farber, Ian Freebairn-Smith, Bob Zwirn, Ron Hicklin, Tom Bahler, Bob Tebow, B.J. Baker, Gwen Johnson . . . and others. (Go online and look up their credits).

Our Jan Berry Tribute album will feature seven tracks from "Carnival" (newly recorded, based on the original scores).

"Carnival of Sound" was a big expensive studio operation that fell apart (in terms of final production and release) due to legal and personal wrangling.

I've written an article, forthcoming in ESQ, that lays out what happened with "Carnival of Sound" and "Save For A Rainy Day" . . . There's an interlocking context there that's never been properly presented.

M.




Hey Mark,

Do any good quality masters for any of the Carnival tracks exist, even in private hands? From the cuts I've heard from various sources, the arrangements are second to none and totally unique - in the same sense SMILE or The Millennium is unique. It was a really cool experiences discovering the COS of sound material, and once while talking with Phil Sloan about his relationship/work with J&D I got to talk a little about these tracks...cool stuff   Grin

And when can I get my hands on this issue of ESQ?

Warner Bros. has the master tapes for the "Carnival" era stuff, and I want to get them officially released.

Whether that happens or not, I plan to work with Jan's estate to publish the full music scores to the "Carnival of Sound" material . . . . all parts for brass, woodwinds, and strings were written out . . . also the bass parts, chord charts, etc. . . . and recorded by the famous Hollywood studio musicians.

That's one way I know for sure I can illustrate the depth of arrangement that went into those songs . . . again, regardless of whether the original recordings are released.

The Fall 2007 issue of ESQ should be out within a week or so, according to Dave Beard.

M.
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Mark A. Moore
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« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2007, 05:39:41 PM »

Here's the info . . .

FALL 2007

THE BEACH BOYS: "Smiley Smile" revisited

The Fall 2007 edition of Endless Summer Quarterly celebrates the 40th Anniversary of Smiley Smile with collected comments from Brian Wilson, Mike Love, Al Jardine, Van Dyke Parks and Stephen Desper; An exclusive interview with Dean Torrence on the Jan & Dean release Save For A Rainy Day, and The Laughing Gravy’s version of “Vegetables”; Mark A. Moore unveils Jan Berry’s first post-accident recording sessions – Carnival Of Sound; Brian Wilson Royal Festival Hall performance review in London (September 14); more

Individual issue: $12
Subscriptions:
$27 U.S., $32 Canada and Mexico
$37 elsewhere in the world
ESQ's PayPal account ID is: esqeditor@aol.com



M.
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wiggbuggie
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« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2008, 03:04:32 PM »

is there a place i can get a better sounding version of the album the carnival of sound I have is ok quality not the greatest
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brianc
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« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2008, 04:37:46 PM »

**(Nothing remotely like them on SMiLE, including "Fire").**

What is the suggestion here? The backing track on COS are amazing, but there isn't anything on there as reckless and creative as "Fire." Not by a long shot.
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Mark A. Moore
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« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2008, 10:01:58 PM »

**(Nothing remotely like them on SMiLE, including "Fire").**

What is the suggestion here? The backing track on COS are amazing, but there isn't anything on there as reckless and creative as "Fire." Not by a long shot.

Brian Chidester . . . you contrarian, you. We've been through this before.

Folks, Brian and I argue . . . it's part of our thing.  Wink

The reality (not suggestion) is that the string arrangements for the two songs I mentioned are much more complex and melodic than "Fire." The orchestral evidence is preserved on paper. Saying things like "reckless" and "creative" doesn't help the "Fire" strings when compared symphonically.

Doesn't mean I don't dig the sh*t out of "Fire" . . . I do . . . as well as the rest of Smile.

Here's an excerpt:

FAN TAN STRINGS (mp3)

Granted, these are samples . . . but they convey my point, and illustrate what was written and recorded for "Fan Tan" in 1967.

By the way . . . "Fan Tan" is the song that Don Grady (The Yellow Balloon) sang lead on for our forthcoming album.

M.
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brianc
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« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2008, 09:28:23 AM »

Mark,

Those strings are wonderful colouring for a song that could have been sung with a moog tracking and a click track, and it would have been a great melody. Those strings don't add anything to the hook, brilliant as they are.

What "Fire" did with strings was something entirely different. The two can't even be compared.
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Mark A. Moore
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« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2008, 05:58:08 PM »

Mark,

Those strings are wonderful colouring for a song that could have been sung with a moog tracking and a click track, and it would have been a great melody. Those strings don't add anything to the hook, brilliant as they are.

What "Fire" did with strings was something entirely different. The two can't even be compared.

Well yeah . . . you can turn it around and say that there's nothing like the "Fire" strings on Carnival.

I guess my point was that they're different . . . thus my statement that there's nothing like the "Fan Tan" string arrangement . . . or the string arrangement for "Love & Hate," for that matter . . . on Smile.

Wow . . . There's so much happening, string-wise  on "Fan Tan" and "Love & Hate" that doesn't come through on the boots. Some of it does come through . . . but the runs in the background (on both tunes) are phenomenal.

Even on the "Fan Tan" string samples I posted, some of the runs are lost at the end. To illustrate, here's an example of the "Fan Tan" string parts as played by woodwinds. You can discern the runs a bit better:

"Fan Tan" Strings - As Rendered by Woodwinds (mp3)

M.

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brianc
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« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2008, 09:16:15 AM »

Yeah, you can't compare the two. Both are amazing.
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Mark A. Moore
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« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2008, 09:10:28 PM »

Here's what happened with Carnival of Sound -- in a nutshell:

Originally published in ESQ -- Fall 2007 . . .

Rainy Days in a Carnival of Sound: The Lost Renaissance of Jan & Dean

By Mark A. Moore

Link:
http://www.jananddean-janberry.com/app/content.asp?contenttype=CarnivalofSound
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Mark A. Moore
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« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2008, 12:01:12 AM »

Here'a a preview of Tom Bahler singing the title track from Carnival of Sound . . . which will be on our forthcoming Jan Berry tribute album. Tom (Monkees, Partridge Family, etc.) sang lead on the original version in 1968, and reprises that role here, for our project:

http://www.myspace.com/jananddeantribute
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phirnis
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« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2008, 10:48:44 AM »

Just heard the Fan Tan strings track for the first time. Thanks for sharing, Mark, this is quite a stunning piece of music.

Heard a Carnival bootleg for the very first time not too long ago as well. While I wouldn't necessarily compare it to Smile in musical terms, both records sure share a certain tragic element. The one and only song I don't like has to be Only A Boy. Now why would Jan & Dean even sing about this kind of stuff? I prefer Berry and his collaborators singing about Laurel and Hardy, insane as that song may be.
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Mark A. Moore
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« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2008, 11:16:31 AM »

The Carnival of Sound material is very strong from a compositional standpoint.

We recorded seven Carnival tracks for the new Jan Berry tribute album:

"Laurel & Hardy" -- with restored string parts.

"Carnival of Sound" -- with original backing vocal parts.

"Fan Tan"

"I Know My Mind" -- with original backing vocal parts.

"Blowin' My Mind"

"Mulholland"

"Love & Hate"

----------------------

The bootlegs are from poor quality acetates.

We're working on getting to the master tapes at WB, and getting them released.

M.

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SloopJohnB
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« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2008, 12:50:07 PM »


The bootlegs are from poor quality acetates.

We're working on getting to the master tapes at WB, and getting them released.

M.



Great news! If the album does come out, count me in for at least three copies!  Rock!
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I don't know where, but their music sends me there
Pleasure Island!!!!!!! and a slice of cheese pizza.
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