Lucky Old sun review thread!

[eden]

And what's funny is -- at least according to what was said at the performances -- Darian put the whole shebang together. One wonders how much Brian really thought of it as a cohesive whole -- but it still works. The songs are that strong.

On the first nights show Jeff introduced Paul Mertens as doing most of the linking sections between tracks, Scott as working on the lyrics and Darian as also working on some of the structure and such. I think it's exactly what BW needs, people who can facilitate his ideas and  give a bit of focus to what Brian's doing.

I think that over the years there's  been a lack of focus from BW and a lack of support from the group he's working with. Now we have a band who not only 'get' BW but also are supportive, understanding and, not least, really tallented and enthusiastic. There's also no ego-struggles against BW - they all respect his music and just want to a great job for the boss (BW, not Melinda! )

Ultimately, we've ended up with (imho) the best new music BW has been involved with since the 60s and although I'm sure he had a fair bit of help putting it together at least it got finished and performed on time!

[Wirestone]

Eden -- I'm with you on this. It's a great piece of work.

But I find it interesting that what a lot of people seem to react to in TLOS -- the Smile-like organization, linking tracks, etc. -- seems to be the part he had less involvement in.

And the organization is brilliant, too. MAD is just shattering where it is.

[Aegir]

I like the music, the melodies. I don't care if it's Smile-esque, I don't care about the narration. I like the songs. The lyrics, not so much. But the songs themselves, I dig.

But I do have to say my favorite part of the whole thing is the first minute of California Role... which is the only part Brian doesn't sing on.

[buddhahat]

But I do have to say my favorite part of the whole thing is the first minute of California Role... which is the only part Brian doesn't sing on.

That's my least favourite part for exactly the same reason!! (Actually it's growing on me, but I find the faux old-timey accent a bit corny and I fear it's going to grate on me in much the same way that the "You're Under Arrest" bit does on BWPS). I should stop being so miserable though as overall I think this new work is great and benefits from the cohesion that Brian's team have undoubtedly bought to it, as others are mentioning here.

[absinthe_boy]

I think that first minute of "California Role" is great. But then I understand what it is supposed to sound like...1930s style singing...fitting in perfectly with the song's theme of travelling to Hollywood in search of their dreams...

TLOS and who put it together...I've heard the recording where it is said Darian did work putting it together. While this somehwat dilutes my earlier posting that TLOS proves Brian is one of the few artists who can still put a proper album together, it is still highly likely that TLOS is a true collaboration. Many great songwriters work best with a collaborator, and that has always been the case with Brian Wilson.

Whatever the truths of how TLOS was sequenced, the fact is that Brian wrote the music and worked with Scott Bennett on the lyrics...and the songs in TLOS are the best things to come from Brian probly since the 70's. Sure, his previous solo albums had their moments but this is consistently great.

[the captain]

I have to say, the idea of Darian putting it together into a linked song cycle doesn't matter at all to me. The linking music with narration is cool, but if it were just the songs themselves, I'd be just as impressed. They're good songs. And even if Darian had significant input on the music--or Scott, which is rarely mentioned because everyone assumes he just did lyrics, and which is probably a wrong assumption--it doesn't bother me a bit. You can probably count on your fingers how many really good songs Brian Wilson wrote and arranged entirely on his own. Even the musicians from the '60s have always talked about how willing he was to take input and collaborate with anyone, and there is no shame whatsoever in that as long as he's using it to shape his general vision, he takes an interest and he makes the final calls.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Just as impressive to me is his singing, which IMHO is his best in about, oh, I dunno,35 years or so. It's not the timbre of his voice, rather, it's the way he's using it. Gone is the shouty monotone (yes, I know that's kind of  an oxymoron, but it fits) of his other solo albums. I love his singing, esp on MAD. Brilliant.

[the captain]

I agree that he's expressive, but the singing is a reason for me why there has to be a studio album. There are times on the live recordings where Jeff is doubling him and, frankly, Brian is really bad. It isn't such a big deal if you're just doing a lead, btu when the part is a part of a harmony, one bad voice can really ruin it. Coupling it with another, doubling voice, and it's worse. A good studio recording will let him take his time and nail each part.

That said, he really is singing well (for him these days) and you're right that especially on MAD, it's amazing. I've admitted before, the first live recording I heard of that song, after the background vocals swell and he sings the "...make me feel so alo-whoa-oh-one," I got a bit teary-eyed. And there are other parts of the song cycle, too, that he's just singing his ass off.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I actually think it's the doubling that throws him off key a lot of time, but maybe it's just me...

[the captain]

I don't see how a voice on-key would throw a person off-key. I think it just makes the off-key voice more noticeable, frankly. (Two notes that are just slightly different--less than a half-step--make a grating sound, like two waves fighting. It's like a chorus effect. And if the 80s taught us anything, it's that a chorus effect SUCKS.  )

Plus, he seems to want people doubling him as a security blanket. I know for sure in the Smile doc he says something about "I can do it if you're doubling me, but otherwise I can't." And he might say something like that in the On Tour dvd, too, although I'm not certain.

[Ron]

Well, I'll play devils advocate here.  As I understand it, Brain has the fabled perfect pitch.  As I understand perfect pitch, most people sing in relative pitch which is to say that if they hit a c, it may not be a true c, maybe slightly, ever so slightly flat.. but they sing every note the same slightly off way, so that it sounds very good since everything's consistant.  Contrasted against a band or an instrument playing a melody or a rhythm, this makes most music sound great.

If somebody has perfect pitch, though, they hit the note dead on (if they're capable of it) or at least have the ability to hear notes as they truly ring and should sound dead on pitch... so if someone is an accomplished singer (as Brian most undoubtedly is) AND has perfect pitch, when they sing they'll be shooting for singing perfectly on pitch as opposed to relative pitch. 

If somebody who has perfect pitch was singing the exact same melody at the exact same time as somebody who had relative pitch, I could see where the two would contrast and one of them wouldn't be able to discern quite how to hit the note. 

That's must my cursory, uneducated knowledge of it.  I may be full of sh*t. 

[Chris Brown]

I don't see how a voice on-key would throw a person off-key. I think it just makes the off-key voice more noticeable, frankly. (Two notes that are just slightly different--less than a half-step--make a grating sound, like two waves fighting. It's like a chorus effect. And if the 80s taught us anything, it's that a chorus effect SUCKS.  )

Plus, he seems to want people doubling him as a security blanket. I know for sure in the Smile doc he says something about "I can do it if you're doubling me, but otherwise I can't." And he might say something like that in the On Tour dvd, too, although I'm not certain.

You're right Luther.  I notice that at times with Brian as well.  Doubling with someone who is on key is harder for the person singing on key, not the other way around!  It takes quite a bit of concentration to stay on key while hearing someone going flat or whatever while you do it.  Brian of all people should know that doubling to cover up an off-pitch performance doesn't work.  You are right in that he uses it as a security blanked, but I think in many cases its just a general case of Brian not being able to sound good enough on his own anymore.  So Jeff doubles and tries to mitigate the effect.  I would almost rather hear Brian just go flat than hearing the ugly chorus effect you described (it grates on me too!). 

[Chris Brown]

Well, I'll play devils advocate here.  As I understand it, Brain has the fabled perfect pitch.  As I understand perfect pitch, most people sing in relative pitch which is to say that if they hit a c, it may not be a true c, maybe slightly, ever so slightly flat.. but they sing every note the same slightly off way, so that it sounds very good since everything's consistant.  Contrasted against a band or an instrument playing a melody or a rhythm, this makes most music sound great.

If somebody has perfect pitch, though, they hit the note dead on (if they're capable of it) or at least have the ability to hear notes as they truly ring and should sound dead on pitch... so if someone is an accomplished singer (as Brian most undoubtedly is) AND has perfect pitch, when they sing they'll be shooting for singing perfectly on pitch as opposed to relative pitch. 

If somebody who has perfect pitch was singing the exact same melody at the exact same time as somebody who had relative pitch, I could see where the two would contrast and one of them wouldn't be able to discern quite how to hit the note. 

That's must my cursory, uneducated knowledge of it.  I may be full of merda. 

As a person with perfect pitch, I'd say you've got some of the general idea.  It's not so much about being able to sing the pitch exactly right; a well trained singer can do that without knowing what note they are singing.  Perfect pitch is more about note identification.  When someone hits an F on a piano, a person with perfect pitch will tell you what it is almost instantly, just because they "know" what an F sounds like.  I would best equate it with answering the phone and knowing who you are talking to without them having to tell you.

Its hard to describe really.  I guess I like to think of it as having an inner-ear tuner at your disposal at all times.  For instance, when I learn a song on piano, I never reference the recording.  I just remember it, and can figure out the chords from playing the song back in my head.  I have a really good musical memory for whatever reason, to the point where I can sit down and learn a song I haven't heard for years, in the correct key.  So for me, having perfect pitch is useful mostly in the area of learning songs from memory.  The other stuff that comes with it isn't really that useful...I mean its nice and everything that I know that my car horn is a B flat, but there really isn't any practical value in being able to hear that.  People just think I'm weird when I hear a noise and identify the note.  Again, fun but useless.  Hope that helps.

[Andrew G. Doe]

According to Carl, many years ago admittedly, in his opinion Brian didn't have perfect pitch but perfect relative pitch.

[absinthe_boy]

As another person with perfect pitch I can pitch in (pun intended)

It is hard to describe because I know nothing else. I don't understand what it is like *not* to have perfect pitch, I don't understand why some people believe they are singing in tune when they are way off...but it must be that they don't hear the difference.

I know that I am able to listen to a singer and instantly say "That person is one quarter of a tone sharp" (or flat). I've even helped singing teachers identify where their pupils need to improve because the teacher cannot be sure when the singer is only fractionally inaccurate whether they are sharp or flat.

Likewise, though I am not a regular singer at all, when I do sing I know if I am sharp or flat and to what degree. It doesn't necessarily help me hit the right notes...that is what practise is for.

I do notice Brian sometimes starts singing (probably) deliberately flat and glisandos up to the correct note. this is quite easy on the ear, and helps him reach the heights.

I think he can do more in the studio (with multiple takes) than he can live...when sometimes he simply doesn't manage to hit the right note. But the dude's 65...we can forgive him that!

I am sure Brian, with only one good ear, is at a disadvantage especially with a loud band around him. I would imagine he has a monitor in his good ear to help. Personally having somebody else singing in tune along with me would distract me...so the "security blanket" idea rings true...maybe Brian knows he can stop singing for a few seconds if he's way out because Jeff will be there covering him? That could give him the confidence to go out and sing in the first place.....that and the keyboard he sits behind....whatever works for Brian is fine by me as his concerts are great.

[the captain]

Ron, you're not quite right about your understandings of either perfect or relative pitch--but attempts at devil's advocacy are always welcome and fun.

Chris Brown is right about what perfect pitch is--someone who has it can't necessarily sing perfectly so much as hear perfectly. S/he can identify a pitch upon hearing it. The drummer in my old band has perfect pitch, but is only an average singer. (The flesh is weak but the spirit willing...)

Relative pitch has nothing to do with being able to sing the same every time. What it means is that a person can identify pitches and intervals relative to a certain pitch. So, for example, that person could identify a G based on someone playing or singing a C. The person with good relative pitch can hear a perfect 5th above the note he or she is given and figure out what that other note is. However, you could trick a person with good relative pitch by playing a B and saying it is a C. The person with good relative pitch would then find an F# and think it's a G--it's all about the pitches' relationships to one another that someone with relative pitch identifies.

Neither of the two guarantees on-key singing (if they did, even a cursory listen to a Brian Wilson show would prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he didn't have perfect pitch). They have to do with hearing.

[Jonas]

10 points to Luther for the General Brannigan reference!

[LostArt]

I think Brian knows his limitations these days.  His ear is still good, but his voice can't do what he wants it to.  That's why he needs Jeff or whoever to double him in live performances.  I am very hopeful for a studio recording of TLOS.  I just prefer the harmonies to be perfect.  A song like Midnight's Another Day doesn't require the lead voice to be perfect, but man, those Brian Wilson harmonies have got to be in tune.  I say if he needs to use pitch correction, then let him use it.

I don't have perfect pitch, but I know when I am singing off key.  I have good tonal memory, though.  I am able to put a new set of strings on my guitar, and tune the thing up so that the strings are playing the right notes (the 6th string will be tuned to an E, etc.) without the aid of a tuner or reference tone.  However, if I was asked to identify a note played on a different instrument, I might not get it right.  Another thing with me is the way my ear perceives pitch while performing with my band.  I did a show a couple of days ago, and the stage volume was pretty loud.  The vocal moniters were able to keep up, so I could hear mysef okay, but when the sound pressure levels exceed a certain point, I experience a strange sort of pitch shifting distortion.  For example, we did a song in E, and to my ear, I thought that I was singing in tune with the instruments, but when the song ended, and the stage got quiet, I played that same E chord on my guitar, and the whole chord sounded as if it was at a different pitch than what we had just played.  I thought, "My God, was I just singing this whole song a quarter tone off?".  Listening to a recording of the performance told me that I wasn't, so whatever is causing this pitch shifting thing in my ears, it's causing all instruments and all voices to shift equally.  I am constantly pleading with my band mates to play quieter on stage and to let the P.A. do the work.  I remember Brian having some difficulty with sound pressure levels early in his career, too.  He's got a lot of instruments on stage with him these days, and it probably gets a bit loud up there for him.     

[pixletwin]

I can tell you that a person with perfect pitch doesn't always translate to a singer with perfect pitch.

[Chris Brown]

I can tell you that a person with perfect pitch doesn't always translate to a singer with perfect pitch.

Exactly.  They really should come up with a new term for it, as "perfect pitch" is somewhat misleading (many people think it refers to singing ability, which it doesn't at all).  Like I said, there are great singers out there who can hit every note perfectly, but couldn't tell you what note they were singing if their life depended on it.  Having perfect pitch might help to a degree with singing (I can't imagine anyone having perfect pitch but being a terrible singer), but it really has nothing to do with singing ability.

[Aegir]

I can't imagine anyone having perfect pitch but being a terrible singer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMWhfqVTMN4

[Chris Brown]

I can't imagine anyone having perfect pitch but being a terrible singer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMWhfqVTMN4

Unfortunately I've seen that one before (so painful!).  I should have been more specific; I was referring to someone with perfect pitch who could never sing well in the first place. 

Brian is a different case, as he was an amazing singer who intentionally destroyed his voice.  He has never fully gained back the control he had before then, which must be incredibly frustrating.  That video was just a case of Brian thinking he was 22 again and trying to do it like he used to, only to have his ruined voice come out.  I'm not sure what made him think he could sing that lead with the voice he had, but it sure wasn't pretty!

[pixletwin]

I can't imagine anyone having perfect pitch but being a terrible singer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMWhfqVTMN4

Painful to watch, but you have to hand to Brian, he pulls it OK in the end with his best Ronnie Spector impersonation..

"EVerything will come out all right"

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I can tell you that a person with perfect pitch doesn't always translate to a singer with perfect pitch.

Exactly.  They really should come up with a new term for it, as "perfect pitch" is somewhat misleading (many people think it refers to singing ability, which it doesn't at all).  Like I said, there are great singers out there who can hit every note perfectly, but couldn't tell you what note they were singing if their life depended on it.  Having perfect pitch might help to a degree with singing (I can't imagine anyone having perfect pitch but being a terrible singer), but it really has nothing to do with singing ability.

That is very true. I do have perfect pitch,and it is extremely difficulty for me to intentionally sing offkey, but sadly my voice itself is only average(although at my best I've been told I sound like a combo of Dennis Wilson,Scott Weiland and Daniel Johnston, which is both a compliment and an insult at the same time). Point is, I may have perfect pitch, but I'm mediocre as a vocalist.

[carl r]

I agree 'Mexican Girl' may not be the most immediate track in TLOS. The instrumental underneath it's great, though. Maybe we'll get a less 'busy' version at some stage. I hope any release also extends the tracks beyond their current limits.