Can Brian still do it?

[Sheriff John Stone]

Brian Wilson is an immensely talented musician, and some of those gifts he was born with or worked for don't just go away. You don't forget those things. He could still produce an album. He is fully capable. He has the know-how. But if you're looking for an artistic breakthrough, that's an entirely different thing, and it is probably fair to say his era for such things is long past.

Good post, Luther. I have to question you on this, though.

DON'T those gifts go away? COULD'VE they been lost to drugs and mental illness?

Also, to first say he IS an immensely talented musician, with GIFTS that just don't go away, then to say an artistic breakthrough is long past - well, is that a little contradictory? Isn't his musicianship and those gifts he was born with or worked for actually his art, or a big part of his art?

[Ron]

I think the Christmas Album is a masterpiece for Brian, and I trust Mark's comments (who, btw, was there for every session, and was there for sessions nobody else was present at I assume as Engineer!) that Brian was in control.  I love that album, the singings great, the production is great, and pretty much every track has some clever Brian magic sprinkled over it, from the background vocals to the beautiful bass line in "Hark The Herald Angels Sing".  I mean what other person but Brian would think up "OOOH, WHOOO OOOH OOH oooh oooh oooh!!! Merry Christmas!!!!".  Plus like we always go back to, Brian's proven for 40 years that you can't make him fake excitement.  If he ain't into it, he ain't into it.  

[the captain]

SJS, I think there is a point where we have to differentiate between the learned part and the inspirational part. The latter is largely subjective, of course. (For that matter, check my post about the spirituality of WIRWFC.) I don't think Brian Wilson has the creative and innovative nature he had when he was 21-26 years old. This could be largely due to age, of course, although illness, drugs and whatever else probably contributed, too.

But that's just a part of the overall picture. Brian undoubtedly still understands chord structures. He understands how to lead multiple voices (theoretically speaking--leading one tone to another, like resolving a major 7th to the root) to traditional resolution points. He knows boogie woogie bass lines and ii-V-I progressions. And I'd dare to say he still understands texture in music, knowing that it adds dramatic effect to add strings to this second verse, or drop out instruments and sing that part a capella. I doubt those technical things have left him because he can still sit at a piano and play around with chords. To me, anyway, that is enough.

Granted--and I don't think I said different--the knowledge of what would need to be done plus the physical ability to stand there and do it over a period of weeks does not mean even that will be done--not even an entirely individually done solo work. It could be done. He could do it. He could individually and entirely produce a competent piece of music. But he has chosen not to, I believe because he isn't interested in exerting that much effort in a pop world that passed him by a long time ago, that he conquered before that, etc.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Yeah, a lot of the opinions/interpretations/responses to this thread are subjective I guess. I don't want to beat it into ground, but wanted to add one final thought on spirituality, and attempt to re-address the thread topic.

I find a lot of spirituality in Brian's Beach Boys' music. I can't define it, but I know when I hear it. Examples of this are "In My Room", "You Still Believe In Me", "This Whole World", hell, even the end of "A Day In The Life Of A Tree" gets to me. Dennis had that gift, too.

Anyway, that's what I'm looking for in Brian's new music, and what I'm thinking about when I answer the question of whether he can "still do it".  I want to be moved!!!!

[the captain]

Some of those same ones get me. (Others, I admit, don't.) And frankly, I think it's a mystery that neither of us will solve. People who are entirely competent musicians have been releasing technically sound but entirely unaffecting music as long as there have been musicians and music. Some people touch some people, and in some instances they're lucky enough to touch a large number of them. People imitate those musicians, but generally without success. And those musicians themselves sometimes have to imitate themselves without success.

I guess what it comes down to for me is that Brian Wilson will likely continue to use his musical skills to basically imitate himself. And if we're lucky he'll still have his moments of indefinable brilliance. I am entirely confident he hass all the skill and knowledge to do the former. I am hopeful but doubtful about the latter, other than in brief moments.

[Day Tripper]

 I've often wondered how much Brian's environment, circle of friends, and recreational drugs had in inspiring him during the Pet Sounds/Smile era. From what I have read in some of the books about Brian/Beach Boys, Brian was curious about a lot of different subjects and was never hesitant to explore new sounds and ideas. I don't think Melinda would cater to Brian if he had wanted to paint the walls purple, decorate the house with lava lamps, blast Tibeten throat singers at 3 a.m., get the kids to participate in a one hour round of Shortnin' Bread, or break out the bong while inviting the Flaming Lips to spend the weekend.   

 Another thing I've wondered about is the prescribed psychotropic drugs Brian is currently taking.  I've smoked a lot of Pot, taken LSD a few times - but nothing made more "dopey' than when I was on anti anxiety pills or anti depressents. The anti - depressents didn't make me stupid as much as they gave me a "narrow" window of emotion. Remember when Brian did that interview on the Mike Douglas Show? He may have sounded a little manic but he was definately more lucid than he seems today. Maybe Dr. Landy was responsible for over medicating Brian, but who can say for sure.
 
 I wish I could experiment on Brian, gradually take him off his meds, find some hip musicians and friends who would inspire him, and encourage him to be eccentric. I wonder if it would work, or as a previous post said - that most people his age aren't producing ground breaking material. Interesting thread and I am enjoying reading all your opinions.

[Amy B.]

There's your moral dilemma-- take Brian off his meds and have him be miserable and depressed, but possibly more creative, or keep him on and have him show only glimpses of brilliance. I vote for option 2. The genius is dormant, but at least the man has some peace.

The problem is that nothing Brian does will satisfy. If TLOS turns out to be brilliant, people will say Brian must have had a lot of help. If it's bad, Brian didn't have enough help.

I think that during the 60s, the stars were aligned. Brian was on drugs that exaggerated his moods, not controlled them. He was young and energetic and curious. He had a group to support and a recording contract to fulfill. He had a father to please. He hadn't really failed yet, so his confidence was high.

Now he's on mood controlling drugs. He's older and has less energy. He has nothing to prove. He's had enough mediocre reviews and bad experiences that his confidence easily flags. And of course, he's mentally ill. So, as Luther was saying, he still has that gift, but the environment for exploiting it to its full potential isn't usually there. When it is, when he gets an idea and a burst of energy and calls Scott or calls Van Dyke, he makes Midnight's Another Day and TLOS.

I think it's exciting that he's making music at all. I mean, he's about to perform something new, and here we are still arguing about whether he can write great music. Let's see if he can. He claims that music is flowing out of him again. Maybe he is finally finding a new environment in which he can make brilliant music again.

[buddhahat]

The problem is that nothing Brian does will satisfy. If TLOS turns out to be brilliant, people will say Brian must have had a lot of help. If it's bad, Brian didn't have enough help.

I agree Amy. With some fans it seems to be a no win situation for Brian. When he churns out something that of a much higher standard than a lot of his solo material the focus is on who has written what and how much help Brian has had. I don't understand this mentality. I think if you're a BW fan, surely when he creates a good song it's a chance to celebrate, otherwise why not give up on him entirely? What are you waiting for?

I wonder if some fans are hoping for new music that is as important and brilliant as Pet Sounds, and that when the new material inevitably doesn't measure up, it's much easier to argue that Brian isn't motivated enough, or that he's had assistance, than it is to admit that this is as good as Brian can produce now when he sets his mind to it. What these people don't seem to realise is that Pet Sounds was also a product of an incredibly dynamic period in pop music history. It's no surprise that McCartney hasn't managed to top his Revolver/Sgt Pepper period songs, or Dylan hasn't managed to knock out a better album than Blonde On Blonde. Even if Brian hadn't had significant mental health problems, I'd argue it would be impossible for him to top or equal Pet Sounds nowadays. The best we could hope for is for him to produce highly respectable, more mature music in the vein of Dylan's critically acclaimed recent output. Hopefully Brian may come close with That Lucky Old Sun.

[chris.metcalfe]

And only 6 days to go before we find out. That's us in the UK, of course!   

[Smilin Ed H]

Dylan, of course, has also had 'help' - from the people he's plagiarised!   

[donald]

Brian needs his meds.  He has had episodes of psychosis.  He hears voices. 

The fact that he is functioning at all can be attributed to good medical and psychiatric management and being surrounded by supportive people who insist that he be productive.

I think sometimes he cares, sometimes enjoys the music.  But a man in his mid 60s, with a history of psychosis and mood disorder can't be expected to create like a healthy 20 something at the peak of his prowess.

The fan must appreciate Brian for the legendary and mature man he  is today.

To me, seeing Brian sitting front and center, singing SMILE and Pet Sounds to an adoring crowd, was one of the great concert experiences of my life.

Doesn't matter that I seldom or never listen to GIOMH.  Incidentally, Desert Drive , performed live , was great.

What might be nice is a compilation of live cuts cullled from the performances of the past few years since theRoxy album.

[Dr. Tim]

I think the received wisdom now is that Brian does act as “producer” in the sense that others do the scut work for him (the details of orchestration, recording, mixing) for which he has no patience anymore.  He takes the result and then OKs it or sends it back with notes to fix this or that.   In that sense he gets final say and thus earns his title. This appears to me more common than one might think, though it does conflict with the older notion of iron-willed Brian watching every note of PS or GV sessions like a hawk.  Consider these other similar examples of loosey-goosey producer credits:

Rick Rubin in a recent NY Times article says that, except for when he worked with Johhny Cash, he usually takes a very laid back approach to production, just checking in now and then and critiquing the results.  He’s not in the control room every day, or even most days.  Yet he earns his title due to his authority role through which he can accept or veto what he’s heard.  During the White Album days, George Martin frequently was absent and the Beatles would record themselves, though Martin would be there to critique, mix and add his stamp as needed and thus earn his title.  Joni Mitchell’s first LP has David Crosby’s name as producer, but he says he told Joni to use his name so the record company would see an “established” name as producer; otherwise he left her to do what she wanted.  Did he earn his title?  When you think about it maybe he did. Procol Harum’s “Shine On Brightly” lists Denny Cordell as producer, but in fact he only produced the single, then left to focus all his attention on Joe Cocker.  His assistant, Tony Visconti, actually produced the remainder of the LP with a reduced credit (and did a better job anyway).

Most famously, Steve Sholes, the original named producer for Elvis at RCA, had no clue how to record him and so the sound of the initial RCA sides was, to a great degree, devised by Elvis and his band on the spot.

To me the most interesting example of a “hands-off” approach was Miles Davis during his electric phase.  He would run down the fundamentals of a new tune with the band; they would start playing and he would leave the room. Then he’d come back after a while, pick up his trumpet and join in.  Was he leading the band?  In his way, yes he was.  Then after the recording he’d leave the assembly of the tracks to Teo Macero to edit, cross-fade, or repeat sections as seemed best (esp. “Bitches Brew”).   

[onkster]

Re laid-back producers:  George Martin, in his book, complained about a producer who just sat back, lit a joint, did nothing, then told the band "Great take!"  Anybody ever confirm who he was talking about?  Martin said it was a big name.

[Chris Brown]

I think you're spot on about Brian's production credits Tim.  Like you said, he doesn't have the patience to be the General Patton of the studio anymore.  That's not to say he couldn't still do that if he really wanted to, I just don't think the motivation and energy are there anymore.  So he lets others like Darian do that work for him.  Nothing wrong with that.  GIOMH is evidence of what happens when Brian just throws something together without really caring.  Obviously a 23 year old Brian would have been appalled by that album.  But Brian probably feels that did his hard work when he was younger, and doesn't have anything to prove to anyone at this point.

[Dancing Bear]

Re laid-back producers:  George Martin, in his book, complained about a producer who just sat back, lit a joint, did nothing, then told the band "Great take!"  Anybody ever confirm who he was talking about?  Martin said it was a big name.

I wish he was talking about Jeff Lynne.

[Pretty Funky]

Can Brian still do it?

Well with help it seems he can!

End of thread?

[PMcC]

Yes...and Yes.

[Jay]

When I started this thread, I didn't mean to ask "Can he remake something as brilliant as Pet Sounds". I think what I meant was, can Brian be locked in a room with only him and the "Wrecking Crew", and come out with something that isn't a total disgrace?

[Aegir]

I never thought that anything he's ever released was a total disgrace.

[Ron]

When I started this thread, I didn't mean to ask "Can he remake something as brilliant as Pet Sounds". I think what I meant was, can Brian be locked in a room with only him and the "Wrecking Crew", and come out with something that isn't a total disgrace?

Maybe you should check out this new album he's premiering live around the world, called "That Lucky Old Sun".  Basically, it kicks ass and he and his new wrecking crew wrote it.