Intelligent songwriting

[bsten]

There was a post about You need a mess of help to stand alone. That song is clearly underestimated. It's always been one of my favorite BB songs. Yes it's kinda strange but at the same time not. And I guess that's the strength of Brian and the BB. Just listen to the ending of the song - how many different melodies can you find? The same with This whole world? Could someone please tell me what key that song is in?
Cheers
Bengt Stenstrom

[adamghost]

There was a post about You need a mess of help to stand alone. That song is clearly underestimated. It's always been one of my favorite BB songs. Yes it's kinda strange but at the same time not. And I guess that's the strength of Brian and the BB. Just listen to the ending of the song - how many different melodies can you find? The same with This whole world? Could someone please tell me what key that song is in?
Cheers
Bengt Stenstrom

I don't have a piano in front of me but I remember jamming on it with Darian years ago and IIRC it's in G.  Anyone else?

[the captain]

Mess o' Help is indeed pretty firmly in G.

Bsten, if it's This Whole World you were asking about, well, that's one of the endearing things about the song, of course: every few bars, it goes into a different key area.

[phirnis]

Mess of Help is one of my favorites as well. I actually prefer it over Marcella.
Alongside A Day in the Life of a Tree, it's probably Jack Reily's best shot at writing a decent lyric.

[the captain]

Mess of Help is one of my favorites as well. I actually prefer it over Marcella.

Me too, by far. Not even close.

[LostArt]

Bsten, if it's This Whole World you were asking about, well, that's one of the endearing things about the song, of course: every few bars, it goes into a different key area.

That one and Wonderful are just crazy.  Who but Brian Wilson could do that?

[the captain]

Bsten, if it's This Whole World you were asking about, well, that's one of the endearing things about the song, of course: every few bars, it goes into a different key area.

That one and Wonderful are just crazy.  Who but Brian Wilson could do that?

Zappa did all the time. But Wilson did make it sound fluid and singable, at least on TWW. (Wonderful is kind of an awkward melody until you're used to it.)

[Dr. Tim]

This Whole World starts in C, but doesn't stay there long (modulating to Am and then C#/Db and then all over the place).  It modulates back to C for the second verse (after "But when they leave you wait alone").
Thus:
C     
I'm thinkin' 'bout this whole world.

C............F....................Em7.......G....... Am...............F
Late at night I think about the love of this whole world.
A............F#m7......Bm7....E7.....C#m
Lots of diff'rent people ev'rywhere.
Db....Db/C.......Gb/Bb....Ab7....Bbm..........Bbm/Ab....Gbmaj7
And when I go anywhere I see love, I see love, I see love.

Bb.......................................................Ebmaj7                   
When girls get mad at boys and go, many times they're just putting on a show
Bb................................................F.....G
but when they leave you wait alone.
(From the Cabinessence pages)

[LostArt]

Bsten, if it's This Whole World you were asking about, well, that's one of the endearing things about the song, of course: every few bars, it goes into a different key area.

That one and Wonderful are just crazy.  Who but Brian Wilson could do that?

Zappa did all the time. But Wilson did make it sound fluid and singable, at least on TWW. (Wonderful is kind of an awkward melody until you're used to it.)

Like I said, who but Brian Wilson and Frank Zappa could do that?
You're absolutely right, of course.  Zappa was an incredible composer.  I'm listening to Peaches en Regalia right this very second.  Re: Wonderful, that melody and those changes had me hooked at first listen.  Incredible stuff.

[the captain]

I enjoyed Wonderful right off, but I can't say the melody was so intuitive. With a song like TWW, it almost didn't feel full of key changes--it seemed like a song you could sing along to right off. Those changes, to me, were more natural.

[bsten]

Thanks for your replies. Exactly what I meant - Brian can/could write complex songs and still sounding very simple, like This whole world. It will probably take a 100 years till the music critics understand that... His "school" of songwriting ought to be in all schools of music.
Bengt

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Girls on the Beach, The Warmth of the Sun, You Still Believe in Me, (several songs on the Friends album), are some more songs with odd chord changes at the top of my head.

I don't think the Beatles did that as much, but I'd have to think about it. Perhaps Michelle, Good Night and Here Comes the Sun. Then again, I haven't looked at the chords, so perhaps there might be a better list of Beatles songs that are simple sounding yet complex.