Smile era stuff

[thomasogg]

I'm sure it's a question that's endlessly asked over and over and over again, but i'm fairly new to the site so forgive me - but does anyone know if their are any plans for the original Smile recordings to get a release? I wasn't very happy with the 2004 remake, and yes I know it's all there on bootleg if anyone wants it, but it'd be nice to see it get an official release, no? Are their any serious, genuine plans to release the material, or is it all still nothing but rumours and hearsay? Oh, and check out 'Smile-era Sounds and Footage' on U Tube - what a great mix!

[peerke]

Yeah sure! There will be a Smile box set, right after the release of the Beatles remasters and Neil Young's Anthology box sets.


Don't hold your breath, we all might be gone before it happens.
But one day it will happen.

[pmugghc]

At least Neil Young's Archeology set has started to drip out!, I think there are 2 CD/DVD combos right now.

[Andrew G. Doe]

There was talk of a Smile box in 1989... and 1996... and 2003.

2010, anyone ? 

[pixletwin]

I thought the SMiLE box set idea was scrapped because of all the legal issues that popped up for the Good Vibrations box set?

[thomasogg]

Which legal issues were those? Relating to Mr Love by any chance? Just a guess, but was he by any chance objecting every time an even vaguely experimental/less-than-universally-well-known track was considered for inclusion? Or were their other problems?

[Andrew G. Doe]

I love the assumption that every time an archive release is blocked it's Mike's fault. Didn't he agree to the Smile stuff on the 1993 box ?

To date, every Smile box has been stymied because Brian has said "No". Probably because Mike told him to, of course.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

To date, every Smile box has been stymied because Brian has said "No".

Thank you for that. I think with BWPS out, there's no chance in hell that Brian (or his "people", which is more likely these days) will say yes to a SMiLE box set.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I really believe that, after Brian is retired from making records and touring, Melinda and David Leaf will look into the possibilty of a SMiLE boxed set - if they haven't already. And I believe that, if a nice profit can be made - and it's not too painful getting it done - it will come out. There are enough qualified people around Brian that he (Brian) wouldn't have to lift a finger. It would just be a matter of phone calls - attorneys, engineers, publicity, art, and Darian (the key to the project). And then, Brian would be called in to say "Sounds good" a few times. I am not being facetious or cynical....

[endofposts]

I'd like to think that might happen.  But Brian has been really, really adamant about it.  It's not just something he's been a go-along guy about, while he has about other things that used to be difficult for  him, like touring.  Landy tried to make a Smile release happen, and if anyone could have persuaded Brian, it should have been him.  Plus, it's been tried for years since Brian has been with Melinda, both before and after they married.  Don Was tried it in '94.  Brian couldn't even stand hearing too much of the original tapes when BWPS was put together.  Maybe part of the agreement with his wife and others was that he would finish it himself via BWPS, but doing so would preclude even trying to put out the originals.  I believe Brian frames it as a mental health issue, and for him, it might be.  I think he remains in control of this issue, or it would have been put out long ago. Mike would at most wrangle over things like liner notes, as he did on the "Pet Sounds" boxed set.  Mike likes being associated with things that have had critical acclaim, even if he had some resistance at the time they were made.  Maybe with the passage of more time, Brian will change his mind, but then it might become a matter of principal for him.  It's not like the sales of Smile sessions will make that much money, and he really doesn't need the money.  He's always going to make the bulk of his cash with things like "Warmth of the Sun" and other greatest hits compilations, not things to appeal to the artsier crow.

[thomasogg]

So just to clear things up, is that a yes to Mike objecting to a Smile release? Just joking, folks... One only has to watch the 'Endless Harmony' DVD to see just how full of enthusiasm he is on the subject. Hopefully they'll all be dead soon, then the record company can just whack it out regardless ala Stanley Kubrick's Clockwork Orange. That was a joke too incidentally.. But jeez, just release the stuff already! Even with 'Pet Sounds' growing in reputation as it is year by year, the Beach Boys remain a very under-rated band in the grand scheme of things. Anything to correct that is much needed, and offical Smile releases would likely do just that...

Oh yeh, this in the latest MOJO music magazine:

Alice Cooper:
That was the night Brian Wilsom said 'I wanna play you the greatest song ever'.. and it was Mama's Little Bay Love Shortenin' Bread.

Iggy Pop:
Brian had a sandbox in the living room. I did not get in the sandbox. I was terrified.

Alice Cooper:
Brian told us, 'Be quiet - my kids are asleep'. But he couldn't get in the door, so he took a brick and smashed a window. Then he brings the kid downstairs, he's holding the baby by the leg going, 'This is my baby!' I'm like, Wow he's gone man!!

[the captain]

not things to appeal to the artsier crow.

Is that the one I've heard so much about that, over and over, flies over the cornfield?

 

[XY]

Oh yeh, this in the latest MOJO music magazine:

Alice Cooper:
That was the night Brian Wilsom said 'I wanna play you the greatest song ever'.. and it was Mama's Little Bay Love Shortenin' Bread.

Iggy Pop:
Brian had a sandbox in the living room. I did not get in the sandbox. I was terrified.

Alice Cooper:
Brian told us, 'Be quiet - my kids are asleep'. But he couldn't get in the door, so he took a brick and smashed a window. Then he brings the kid downstairs, he's holding the baby by the leg going, 'This is my baby!' I'm like, Wow he's gone man!!

Well yeah, blabla.
And to my knowledge, the sandbox lasted 'til early 67.

[Roger Ryan]

Hopefully they'll all be dead soon, then the record company can just whack it out regardless ala Stanley Kubrick's Clockwork Orange.

Off-topic, I know, but did you mean Kubrick's "Eyes Wide Shut"? "A Clockwork Orange" was released as the director intended while he was still alive in 1971. Or, are you referring to the supposedly forthcoming "Special Edition" version of "Orange" that reportedly includes extras that Kubrick probably wouldn't have wanted included, but no one is really sure of?

Back on-topic: I tend to think that BWPS really did take the shine off the idea of releasing a box set of the original sessions (in a good way). I treasure those original sessions as well and would love to have as much as exists released in high fidelity, but with so many tracks appearing on the GV Box Set along with material that has dribbled out on other releases, plus finished versions of the songs appearing on BWPS, a "SMiLE" Box Set would probably appear anticlimatic. Certainly the larger market would expect there to be a finished, or nearly finished, Beach Boys version of the album included which there can never be. The highlights would be the "Fire" track, the backing track to "Child Is Father Of The Man" and, maybe, "He Gives Speeches"! Everything else would be akin to the session excerpts found on the "Pet Sounds Sessions". Even some of the juicier session material appears to be missing. Again, I would love to have everything collected in one place, but a "SMiLE" box would have made a much greater impact if released prior to 1993.

[thomasogg]

In the UK, Stanley withdrew 'Clockwork..' from distrbution and made it clear he didn't want it released here (it was never confirmed why, though rumour has it he and his family recieved threats of violence, and a number of copycat crimes took place at the time of its release). Anyway, he was barely cold in his grave before they promptly re-released it, which is good in that it's an amazing film that everyone should be able to see, but not very respectful to Mr Kubrick...
Oh, and as for the 'well, blababa'? What's that supposed to mean? Are you implying Iggy and Cooper just made it all up? Or are you one of those incredibly dull BB fans who likes to cast Brian as some kind of halo-wearing saint, rather than the incredibly more interesting f***ed-up, crazy genius that he so clearly was? Stories such as the MOJO one are tragic, but v interesting and not a little funny as well... I love hearing them. It's the whole screwed up mess behind the scenes that makes the BBs such an interesting band (that and the awesome music). I don't think it's disrespectful to find such tales of interest etc

[Roger Ryan]

I don't mean to speak for Jasper, but I think he's simply calling Pop's memory into question since he would not have had the opportunity to visit Brian's home prior to the sandbox being removed (sandbox dismantled in '67; Iggy Pop in L.A. around '70/'71).

I was aware of Kubrick pulling "Clockwork" from release in the U.K., but I don't know how strongly he felt about keeping the film unreleased there almost 20 years later. He certainly had no problem allowing the DVD to come out and he must have realized the film would find its way into British hands. The U.S. censorship of "Eyes Wide Shut" is a more questionable decision made after Kubrick's death as was the rush release of the initial DVD set featuring poor video-based transfers that Kubrick would not have approved (his estate successfully got the set withdrawn and replaced with an improved one).

[XY]

I don't mean to speak for Jasper, but I think he's simply calling Pop's memory into question since he would not have had the opportunity to visit Brian's home prior to the sandbox being removed (sandbox dismantled in '67; Iggy Pop in L.A. around '70/'71).

That's right! Looks like Iggy doesn't remember the meeting with Brian and probably not much of the 70's anyway, so he just told something he read somewhere.

[thomasogg]

He was adament about it not being released in the UK. From someone who lives here, and is a huge fan of Kubrick, i can tell you he did not want the film released either in cinemas or on DVD - but once he's snuffed it they quickly released it on both! Hey, i'm aware Eyes Wide Shut caused a hoo-hah in the US, but not in the UK where it simply met with a rather muted reception and zero controversy.

[thomasogg]

Oh yeh, and getting back to the Pop/Cooper stuff, the interviewer's question was: Didn't you both visit Brian during the 'Pet Sounds' sessions? I'm assuming Mojo, a very respectable, knowledgable music magazine, did their research, so i'll assume Pop did at some point visit the US prior to the '70s and thus witnessed the sandbox. However, the Shortenin' Bread incident was definately during the '70s, so it's safe to assume Pop's combined the two Brian encounters into one big disturbing whole. Either way, it was an enlightening anecdote!

[beckettwatt]

Evidently he didn't do his research, as Pop (then James Osterberg) would have been taking drum lessons from Sam Lay (of Butterfield/Muddy Waters fame) in 1966, while Cooper achieved his first regional hit ("Why Don't You Love Me", with an early incarnation of the Alice Cooper band known as The Spiders) in the same epoch. I've always presumed that this incident occurred sometime in 1973 (after Holland) or 1974 -- Cooper was at the height of his commercial success, the latter day Stooges had convened in LA to work on Raw Power (if memory serves... either way, Iggy was a regular on the Left Coast until about '76 or so), and we all know this is when Brian's illnesses began to consume him.

As for the sandbox recollection, Mr. Pop has had over thirty years to embellish the story, after all...

[thomasogg]

Well bugger me

[mistermono]

Hopefully they'll all be dead soon, then the record company can just whack it out regardless ala Stanley Kubrick's Clockwork Orange.

Off-topic, I know, but did you mean Kubrick's "Eyes Wide Shut"? "A Clockwork Orange" was released as the director intended while he was still alive in 1971. Or, are you referring to the supposedly forthcoming "Special Edition" version of "Orange" that reportedly includes extras that Kubrick probably wouldn't have wanted included, but no one is really sure of?

I thought Kubrick destroyed all of the extra footage from ACO.  What are the extras you refer to?  Docs, interviews?

[thomasogg]

Well if they released the movie in the UK when he's said he didn't want 'em to do so, but they did it anyway just coz he'd died, then i guess released a few extras etc doesn't really make much difference does it? It's like crapping all over his dead lifeless body, then debating whether to piss on it too, coz, you know, it might be distasteful...

[Roger Ryan]

Well, all I know is that Kubrick signed off on the form to have Warner Brothers release DVD versions of everything from "Lolita" to "Eyes Wide Shut", but fully intended to oversee new hi-def transfers before this happened. When he died, Warners rushed the initial box set out with inferior transfers claiming they had Kubrick's permission. The new and improved transfers were then released a year later. This was for the U.S. market, so it's possible Kubrick would have refused to sign off on a U.K. DVD release of "Clockwork".

Kubrick's estate, being his wife, Jan Harlan and Leon Vitali I persume, still have some measure of control over what comes out I would think. As far as I know, the proposed "Clockwork Orange" Special Edition would contain the same version of the film, but with possible commentary by Malcolm McDowell, plus background featurettes on the making of the film. Oh yeah - and most importantly - this version would be anamorphic widescreen which I doubt Kubrick would have a problem with since he wanted the film matted to begin with.

O.K. back on topic, sort of: Asking Pop and Cooper if they attended the "Pet Sounds" sessions is absurd! Cooper was an absolute nobody at the time and living either in Phoenix or Detroit. Pop was the same and living in Ann Arbor, MI. If they managed a trip out to L.A. in '66, they would have had as much luck getting into the sessions as your average joe on the street.

By the way, the "Raw Power" sessions were held in London in '72/ '73. Neither gentleman would have had access to Brian's house without some amount of celebrity, so 1973/1974 would have been the more logical years.

[thomasogg]

Fair enough re Pop and Cooper, but for the millionth time, regardless of its avaliability in the US or anywhere else, Kubrick did not want 'Clockwork' released in the Uk - period. He lived in the UK, had done from the films release til his death, and he remained adament that it was not to be released here. When he died, all that went out the window... His not wanting it released was entirely down to reasons of his own personal safety, as mentioned in a previous post, ergo he had no problem with it being released in countries where he was not living. But in the uk, where he did live, he didn't want the film on the market. Whether this was irrasional, eccentric, ridiculous etc is besides the point - that is what he wanted, and i just think they were a bit TOO hasty to so blatantly go against his wishes the second he'd snuffed it..