Ringor Starr or Charlie Watts

[Alex]

He sucks.

He more than made up for lack of technique with energy and intensity. He certainly bashed the hell out of the drums. Keith Moon certainly took some cues from Denny. 

Plus, he wrote "Forever", "Little Bird", "Cuddle Up", "Only With You", "Fallin' In Love", "A Time To Live In Dreams", POB, etc. etc.

[Daniel S.]

He's a talented songwriter and a great singer. But as a drummer he is really terrible. He had charisma on the stage and energy and all of that, but that doesn't make up for bad drumming. I'm not a girl. I don't care if he's cute. Being cute doens't make up for shitty drumming.

[mikeyj]

He's a talented songwriter and a great singer. But as a drummer he is really terrible. He had charisma on the stage and energy and all of that, but that doesn't make up for bad drumming. I'm not a girl. I don't care if he's cute. Being cute doens't make up for merdaty drumming.

Still not bad for a guy who never really learnt, he was just thrown the job of drummer and I think he did a fine job considering

[Beach Boy]

In the early days he was quite good and around 1976, 1977. His drumming at the Long Beach show, 1981 surprised me too, but he can't compete with a Charlie Watts. But I'd rather watch Denny because he has so much energy.

[Alex]

He's a talented songwriter and a great singer. But as a drummer he is really terrible. He had charisma on the stage and energy and all of that, but that doesn't make up for bad drumming. I'm not a girl. I don't care if he's cute. Being cute doens't make up for merdaty drumming.

I'm not a girl "who think Dennis is cute". I never said I thought he was cute. I'm more like a guy who wished he could be Dennis. Now he may not have been a "great musician", but he did pretty good for someone who was put on the drums because it was the only spot left in the group. Maybe he wasn't as "proficient" as Starr or Watts, but he was definitely a lot more entertaining. I think we could all agree he had a better singing voice than Ringo.

[pixletwin]

He's a talented songwriter and a great singer. But as a drummer he is really terrible. He had charisma on the stage and energy and all of that, but that doesn't make up for bad drumming. I'm not a girl. I don't care if he's cute. Being cute doens't make up for merdaty drumming.

I'm not a girl "who think Dennis is cute". I never said I thought he was cute. I'm more like a guy who wished he could be Dennis. Now he may not have been a "great musician", but he did pretty good for someone who was put on the drums because it was the only spot left in the group. Maybe he wasn't be as "proficient" as Starr or Watts, but he was definitely a lot more entertaining. I think we could all agree he had a better singing voice than Ringo.

Plus Dennis had charisma in spades. (Ringo was VERY charasmatic, but Dennis even more so.)

[the captain]

I don't think anyone was forgetting about Dennis Wilson in this thread: he was just irrelevant to it because it was written in the "General Music Discussion" thread about Charlie Watts and Ringo Starr. So when one is choosing between them, D. Wilson is not an option.

But since we're discussing him, I'd say Dennis was: a great talent whose musical ability seems intuitive; a terrible technician as a singer and drummer; a charismatic rock 'n' roller and romantic; and a sexy enough man to make a bunch of otherwise nerdy or fat guys still worth watching. Hopefully that answers the Watts v. Starr question...

[jbaker]

Ringo it is.
I've listened to the Beatles all my live and just this week I was blown away by the drum part in Here comes the Sun ( esp. the end and the cymbal tags on Sun, Sun, Sun, here it Comes...then fills until the line comes back).

But on Charlie's side is he always had such a great snare sound.  A drummer I knew once pointed out how Charlie would often raise his hi hat stick during the snare notes so that nothing would distract or muddy the snare sound.

Sorta like the punching of Mick Jagger.  No idea if its true, but it makes for a good story.

[DoubleVirgo]

Ringo for me. I've been defending Ringo for many years now (as if he needs me to do so) and eventually I whittled my response to - "He was the Beat in the Beatles. What more do you want?"

He didn't "luck into" anything. They specifically picked him to be in the group. George says in the Anthology that he was the guy for the role but didn't enter the movie until that scene. Or something like that. If anything, Pete Best lucked into the Beatles when they needed somebody that day to go to Hamburg. Or whatever the story really is. He was just a warm body. But they really dug Ringo. And he quit Rory in a heartbeat to play with them. It was cosmic, man.

Don't get me wrong, I loves me my Charlie Watts. Never fails to get me dancing. That's a trait you want in a drummer.

[pixletwin]

To put it truthfully and simply, The Beatles wanted Ringo BEFORE Ringo wanted the Beatles.

[DoubleVirgo]

Oh. I actually wasn't there so I don't know for sure. But the story the way I understood it was that it was kinda mutual. I've heard tales told of Ringo hanging out listening to the Beatles' late night Hamburg sets, sitting in when Pete was sick or whatever, plus Ringo saying something along the lines of "I wanted to play with the Beatles because they were the best band in Liverpool". Whomever had the initial desire notwithstanding, Ringo pretty much dropped what he was doing and joined. Not much arm twisting from what I recall. But I guess the point is that they were made for each other, no?

[Daniel S.]

Here's the question: Would the Beatles have been as successful if they had kept Pete Best as their drummer? Besides the fact that Ringo is a much better drummer than Pete Best, I think Ringo has much more charisma than Pete.

[Alex]

I've always wondered what the Beatles would have been like if Stu Sutcliffe had stayed in the group and never died.

[the captain]

I've always wondered what the Beatles would have been like if Stu Sutcliffe had stayed in the group and never died.

Considering he sucked, it's safe to say worse. Unless they made him stand there and play an unplugged bass and just look good, that is. Then about the same.

[pixletwin]

No doubt. When Stu was in the group, the were weaker for it. He didn't love the music. He loved John and that is the only reason why he joined the Beatles. He would have been a dead weight on the Beatles rise to success.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

As far as I'm concerned, Ringo's got way more personality in his drumming than Charlie Watts and personality goes a long way.

[Justin]

Ugh this thread is depressing. 

And I'm not one bit surprised Ringo gets the win here.  Ridiculously predictable.  I'm gonna throw a wrench into the mix.  Ringo or Charlie?  How about: Ringo and Charlie?  They're both class acts and they BOTH know what they're doing behind the drum kit.  Watts is the Stones' secret weapon and the magic potion (along with Richards) for why all those records worked so well.  Anyone crapping on Watts simply doesn't get it.  And probably never will. 

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Hey, why not throw in Keith Moon while we're at it.

[Aum Bop Diddit]

Keith and Charlie are both tremendous rock AND roll drummers essential to their groups' sounds -- the two most successful and influential bands ever.  Well two of three anyway.  Charlie has a little more swing but that is more the Stones' style too.

There is a clip of John Fogerty doing the old CCR song "Ramble Tamble" with Kenny Aranoff on drums.  Aranoff is a powerful drummer with amazing chops, but all I could think is "where the hell is Doug Clifford when you need him?"  Ringo and Charlie both served the song, sound, and band.  To me, the great rock drummers are not the best drummers.  I never liked Fusion, ya know?

[Justin]

Keith and Charlie are both tremendous rock AND roll drummers essential to their groups' sounds -- the two most successful and influential bands ever.  Well two of three anyway.  Charlie has a little more swing but that is more the Stones' style too.

There is a clip of John Fogerty doing the old CCR song "Ramble Tamble" with Kenny Aranoff on drums.  Aranoff is a powerful drummer with amazing chops, but all I could think is "where the hell is Doug Clifford when you need him?"  Ringo and Charlie both served the song, sound, and band.  To me, the great rock drummers are not the best drummers.  I never liked Fusion, ya know?

This thread is looking up! But Keith Moon didn't really have the "roll" like Charlie did.

Ten points for your comments on Doug Clifford.  You totally get it dude!

[Justin]

Hey, why not throw in Keith Moon while we're at it.

Why don't we throw in Buddy Rich or Gene Krupa while we're here also?  We could add a boat load of dudes but the thread specifically focused on Ringo and Charlie so why not stick with them?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Hey, why not throw in Keith Moon while we're at it.

Why don't we throw in Buddy Rich or Gene Krupa while we're here also?  We could add a boat load of dudes but the thread specifically focused on Ringo and Charlie so why not stick with them?

I think you're on a roll.

[Aum Bop Diddit]

Keith and Charlie are both tremendous rock AND roll drummers essential to their groups' sounds -- the two most successful and influential bands ever.  Well two of three anyway.  Charlie has a little more swing but that is more the Stones' style too.

There is a clip of John Fogerty doing the old CCR song "Ramble Tamble" with Kenny Aranoff on drums.  Aranoff is a powerful drummer with amazing chops, but all I could think is "where the hell is Doug Clifford when you need him?"  Ringo and Charlie both served the song, sound, and band.  To me, the great rock drummers are not the best drummers.  I never liked Fusion, ya know?

This thread is looking up! But Keith Moon didn't really have the "roll" like Charlie did.

Ten points for your comments on Doug Clifford.  You totally get it dude!

I wrote "Keith and Charlie" when I meant "Ringo and Charlie" (t'was late) but the point is relatively the same -- unique "personality" drummers essential to their particular bands.  Moonie was definitely not about "roll"!  There is a wonderful track off Townshend's and Ronnie Lane's "Rough Mix" -- "My Baby Gives It Away" -- on which Watts plays dums.  It is an awesome performance and is so different  than what Moon brought to the table -- something Townshend was tiring of actually.

Just for the hell of it I will mention a few of my favorite "band" drummers.  Ed Cassidy of Spirit, Albert Bouchard of Blue Oyster  Cult, and John Densmore of the Doors.  Though there are definitely some chops in there.

[pixletwin]

My personal favorite drummer is neither Ringo nor Charlie but Nick Mason.

[Justin]

....and John Densmore of the Doors.

VERY nice.

The song "LA Woman" is pure perfection.