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Author Topic: Al cancelled for Europe  (Read 20034 times)
Jonas
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« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2007, 02:08:27 PM »

Wow STE, that really stinks. Sad
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« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2007, 02:27:01 PM »

Email Al, STE.  You never know.
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« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2007, 02:41:02 PM »

I think these conspiracy theories get out of hand. I don't say this because I'm naive, but because I've never seen a shred of evidence to the contrary. Brian's band strike me as decent people-- you think they'd stick around for 8 years knowing that Brian is being abused and manipulated?
I don't know what the truth is either, but I'll give you a possible version of it:

*Melinda is posting (and not Brian) because Brian is getting ready to leave for a European tour this afternoon.
Or because Melinda (anyone, for that matter) is far more articulate at explaining these things than Brian.
Or because Brian didn't feel like explaining it.
*Brian had a dizzy spell on stage because he was dehydrated.
Or because he was under hot lights
Or because he was tired
Or maybe because he was briefly protesting the show, but, as Darian has said, he feels one way one moment and one way the next, and this was just a passing moment of rebellion.
Who knows? I have dizzy spells and have actually fainted in the past, and I know I'm not in dire health. It happens. And the advice I was given by a doctor? "If it happens again, sit down on the ground, whereever you are, no matter how foolish it looks, to save yourself the possibility of stitches."
*Al quit the tour because he wanted Brian to have the spotlight
Or because Brian wanted the spotlight and asked him to step aside
Or because Al would have had to foot the expenses of the tour for himself
Or because Al just didn't feel like touring
If Al is disgusted by the way Brian is supposedly being treated, you'd think he'd want to STAY for his "dear friend," and not leave him to his "handlers." So I don't know how realistic that theory is.

I'm not an insider, and I don't know anything. But I don't think most of you know much about this either.

I agree that voicing conspiracy theories as if they have been proven or are definitely true is not a good thing, but I think most people posting here, definitely myself, have made it clear that, not unlike your post, we are just throwing ideas out there as to possible reasons behind all of this. We are not being given much information. Regarding Brian's health, while I would hope that fans would be told the truth and kept up to date (and they may well be doing just that), fans certainly are not owed any information about Brian's health.

But, regarding Al not appearing in Europe, I do think that people who bought tickets to those shows are owed a better explanation. Reading Al's statement, I'm thinking that Al isn't even trying to hold any information back. It sounds to me like joining Brian on tour, whether in Europe or in past shows that he has done, has not been any sort of huge event for him, or perhaps a better way to put it is that I think maybe both Brian and Al underestimate how big of a deal it is to many fans for those two to appear together. It sounds like Al is almost underestimating how much the fans want to see him specifically, as if having Al at the show is something that the fans would take or leave.

While I actually ended up getting to see Al with Brian in Saratoga (and let me reiterate that setting aside all of the drama, it was really a great show both from Al and Brian and the band), I did sort of deal with having to decide whether to buy tickets and go to the show in relation to whether Al would be there or not. Al was originally on the billing, at which time I was totally jazzed about seeing the show. When they took Al's name off and said he wasn't scheduled to be there, I had to think about whether I was going to shell out around $200 for two tickets to see Brian on June 11th, having just seen both Brian and Al together on January 28th. I went ahead and got tickets anyway, since it is Brian Wilson and however long he tours in the future, chances are becoming fewer and fewer to see him. Plus, the Mountain Winery in Saratoga is quite a good concert venue, quite intimate, not a bad seat in the place. But, for a brief moment when I was really jazzed about seeing Al and Brian, I considered actually buying from a ticket broker even better seats than what I assumed I would end up getting through Ticketmaster, just to be closer to the stage to see Al and Brian. Once Al was no longer scheduled, I was no longer at all motivated to buy extra tickets just to get closer (and I probably wouldn't have done it even if Al was scheduled; I've never and probably never will buy tickets from a broker). Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that I can understand how some people, even huge "Brianistas", would have only bought tickets to a show because Al was going to be there. On the one hand, maybe Brian's "people" might be surprised that so many people in Europe were going specifically because Al was going to be there. On the other hand, I can't imagine a lot of fans actually trying to refund or otherwise get rid of their tickets because of Al's cancellation. If I had bought tickets to a show expecting Brian and Al, and Al was dropped, I'd probably still go to the show.
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« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2007, 03:03:18 PM »

I agree with you that people are owned an explanation about Al. Someone here did post an article in which Al said it was his decision and it was because of his album. So there's an explanation, and if it's true, it's kind of thoughtless of him to not think of the fans. Who knows-- maybe he didn't think he was that big of an attraction.

Melinda has posted on the blueboard saying that anyone who no longer wants to go to the Europe concerts due to Al's absence can send in their tickets for a full refund. I think that's very generous. The only thing it doesn't take into account is airfare and hotels, which she can't do anything about.

Of course I don't mind speculation about Brian, but when it spirals into this "Brian is in poor health," "Brian hates touring," "Brian is being forced to work," business, well, there's no way of knowing that, and these discussions were coming out of a dizzy spell that Brian had. It seemed like a stretch to me. IMO, you can speculate all you want about whether Brian wants to be there or not, but to actually _decide_ that he doesn't want to be there based on nothing but hearsay and the posts of people on message boards is ridiculous. Melinda takes a lot of heat, but to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that she's in it for love, it must be very difficult dealing with a husband/musical legend who runs so hot and cold in every aspect of his life.
I've said it before and I'll say it again-- If she's going this maliciously, the only motivator would be money, and supposedly they're not making much money off this. I can only conclude, without any other facts, that she's doing what she believes is best for Brian-- the Brian who says he's actually enjoying touring and who sometimes gets a rush from creating and entertaining. It would be a heck of a lot easier for Melinda to sit on her laurels and enjoy Brian's millions.
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« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2007, 03:51:05 PM »

Billy wrote
Then I'm going to say something that I've held back on saying for a while. I think Brian's marriage is the biggest sham of all. I think at one point he & Melinda did love each other, but at this point...I think it's nothing more than a business arrangement. A bad one at that, too.


Billy I am going to quote David Marks from a 1999 or 2000 on line chat. He said "it's too bad Brian didn't find someone to love him for him". After that and a very unpleasant phone conversation with David Leaf I began to think these people around Brian aren't who they seem to be. Since then I talked to several people who have seen Leaf and Melinda "gang up" on Brian if he did a bad show. One told me he was screamed at by them. I held back until now but everyone here must accept the truth. We can't do anything about it because Brian allows it to happen. Jardine probably leanred the truth the hard way. This isn't gossip it is just some hard truths that because I respect Brian have held back. Now I am sincerely worried about him and can no longer hold my tongue.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2007, 04:00:49 PM by MBE » Logged
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« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2007, 04:03:30 PM »

Then Brian should divorce her and find some new friends.

I'm serious. I dislike this entire line of discussion -- even if it's true. If so, Brian is being a wuss. If not, it speaks to our desire to believe the worst about people.

In either case, I don't much like the answer.
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« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2007, 04:04:06 PM »

Well, I'm pissed.

Me too. I gave my ticket to my brother, hope he will enjoy the show!
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« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2007, 04:10:27 PM »

After that and a very unpleasant phone conversation with David Leaf I began to think these people around Brian aren't who they seem to be.

What happened, if I may ask?
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« Reply #58 on: June 13, 2007, 04:17:05 PM »

Then Brian should divorce her and find some new friends.

I'm serious. I dislike this entire line of discussion -- even if it's true. If so, Brian is being a wuss. If not, it speaks to our desire to believe the worst about people.

In either case, I don't much like the answer.

If you had asked me in 1998 what I though of Melinda and Leaf it would have been full of praise. I don't think I am trying to believe the worst about people, I am only telling it like I see it from certain incidents I have heard about or gone through. Brian is a very nice man, but he also a very ill man and has been since at least 1974 or 75. Before that he managed without handlers and bodyguards, since then he hasn't maybe by choice. Perhaps he is the best he can be considering, but I think he is in a Catch 22. Creatively I cannot truly complain, I think most of the shows and albums since 99 are worthy, but at what cost? I imagine finish Smile did heal something in Brian but as HEY JUDE said why knock yourself out to sing Catch A Wave. I am sure Melinda and Leaf do actually care about Brian to some extent, but they seem to be arrogant people who see themselves as better then the fans, and to know what's better for Brian then he does. That is just my impression from my admittedly limited interaction with them. Sorry if it's not what you want to hear but it's coming from a very sincere place. Again as bad as we must all feel there is not much we can do.

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« Reply #59 on: June 13, 2007, 04:18:58 PM »

Well, I'm taking BWPS to the grave with me. I am thankful for that, no matter what kinds of people Brian lives/ deals with. Let's PRAY the best for him.
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« Reply #60 on: June 13, 2007, 04:21:52 PM »

After that and a very unpleasant phone conversation with David Leaf I began to think these people around Brian aren't who they seem to be.

What happened, if I may ask?

Basically I wanted to interview him for a project I am actually still working on (I was in college then so it was only part time thus me finishing it now). Anyhow I told him that it was something that put the whole group's talent in perspective and he just got very nasty from that point in. Really hurt my feelings and almost made me give up what I was doing. I was younger then and had a much thinner skin, but he was just plain mean practically shouting at me. I was very respectful to him and was truly shocked by his behavior.
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« Reply #61 on: June 13, 2007, 04:28:15 PM »

I'm amazed at this thread.

Actually, no I'm not. That's the saddest part.

Band Member Drops Out of Pop Musician's Summer Shows
Management and sham-wife puppeteers suspected of conspiracy and mental abuse



It's just pop music, and you have all the albums. You'll be okay.
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« Reply #62 on: June 13, 2007, 04:43:51 PM »

I'm amazed at this thread.

Actually, no I'm not. That's the saddest part.

Band Member Drops Out of Pop Musician's Summer Shows
Management and sham-wife puppeteers suspected of conspiracy and mental abuse



It's just pop music, and you have all the albums. You'll be okay.

How well put..
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« Reply #63 on: June 13, 2007, 04:51:23 PM »

Thanks Mike for coming out and saying that.I know we've discussed things in the past that I've kept in confidence as I have with others...you're not the only one who's had some bad experiences.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...for those who think that this is all just empty conjecture, keep this in mind...what would any of us have to gain by saying such things?Nothing. It's not like I enjoy knowing some of the things I do. Quite the opposite, in fact. Makes one feel dirty.
Why doesn't Brian do something about it? Ironically, it was David Leaf who said that "Brian turns the other cheek so much he's got whiplash". It seems like everyone who has to deal with Brian's people gets burned by them, and the line's getting longer.I do wish Brian would DO something, but the fact is, he just doesn't really care. In a way, this is comfortable for him, because this is the only life he knows.

Now you know who strikes me as  real, decent, actually caring people, that actually care about Brian? Peter Reum. Brian's band. Al. Mark Linnett.  From the sounds of things, David Marks. THOSE are the people who genuinely care for Brian.

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It's just pop music, and you have all the albums. You'll be okay.
True, but it offends me on a human level.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2007, 04:52:49 PM by Det. Billy Castillo » Logged

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« Reply #64 on: June 13, 2007, 05:10:38 PM »


Now you know who strikes me as  real, decent, actually caring people, that actually care about Brian? Peter Reum. Brian's band. Al. Mark Linnett.  From the sounds of things, David Marks. THOSE are the people who genuinely care for Brian.



and Luther.




(just for a laugh, Luther, trying to lighten things up.. Grin)
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« Reply #65 on: June 13, 2007, 05:17:37 PM »

No offense taken!

And to be clear, I care that Brian is all right, too...but I have no way to know. I don't believe much of what I see, especially on the films he releases. I don't know him or his family or his band or his friends or...

So I'm not going to get worked up that Al backs out of some shows, and I certainly am not going to get all worked up about whether this is more "evidence" of sinister forces. It's pop music. My favorite pop music ever, and deeply meaningful to me. But pop music made by people who, for the most part, don't exist other than as recorded sound to me. I can pretend they do by re-watching the films, listening to sessions boots, going to more shows and trying to meet people backstage or after shows, but none of that quite adds up to anything much other than a thrill. I don't know Brian. I don't know Al. I don't know Melinda, or David Leaf or any of the others. And they're not characters in some soap opera, they're people living out their lives.

(And we're strangers questioning their intentions, moral character, ethics, talent, and so on.)
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« Reply #66 on: June 13, 2007, 05:18:38 PM »

Billy: I think David Leaf is very defensive of the idea that Brian was the sole creative force of the BBs. He's been a longtime proponent of that idea -- indeed he was central in creating it. I think folks who challenge that -- and I think the pro-Mike, pro-other group member stances that have evolved online have been useful -- just don't have a place in his world.
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« Reply #67 on: June 13, 2007, 05:20:40 PM »



Basically I wanted to interview him for a project I am actually still working on (I was in college then so it was only part time thus me finishing it now). Anyhow I told him that it was something that put the whole group's talent in perspective and he just got very nasty from that point in. Really hurt my feelings and almost made me give up what I was doing. I was younger then and had a much thinner skin, but he was just plain mean practically shouting at me. I was very respectful to him and was truly shocked by his behavior.
[/quote]

I don't think nasty behavior from someone necessarily means that that person is a key player behind a vast conspiracy to control someone else's life. People aren't good/bad, hero/villain. Leaf, and well as Melinda, might have their moments of nastiness, but to me that doesn't automatically mean that they're totally negative forces in Brian's life.  I wish Peter Carlin would weigh in, because he had some interesting ideas about how Brian is really the one calling the shots in his own way.
Wow, Brian has a dizzy spell on stage, Al cancels a tour, and it leads to all this. It must be Melinda and David Leaf's fault. You guys simplify things just as much as David Leaf does.
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« Reply #68 on: June 13, 2007, 05:23:46 PM »


. I don't know Brian. I don't know Al. I don't know Melinda, or David Leaf or any of the others. And they're not characters in some soap opera, they're people living out their lives.

(And we're strangers questioning their intentions, moral character, ethics, talent, and so on.)


What's interesting is that 50 years from now, this speculation will be totally legitimate for cultural historians. Of course, historians base _their_ theories on solid evidence...
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« Reply #69 on: June 13, 2007, 06:31:33 PM »

I want to state clearly that this is not something that keeps me up at night. The music IS all that matters really, but on a personal level it is sad to see someone who has enriched my life not having an easy time of it.  They are real people and I don't claim to have the final word on any of them. It's not a HUGE deal that Al quit or that Brian got ill in and of itself. I am not blaming Leaf or Melinda outright because I don't know. All I can do is share with you what I have observed and let you tie it together anyway you wish.  I never said anyone was evil here, all I can say is that Brian lives up to who you think he is and some people around him don't in my experience.
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« Reply #70 on: June 13, 2007, 06:38:26 PM »

Well put.
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« Reply #71 on: June 13, 2007, 07:15:21 PM »

I think, given the opportunity, Mike and Brian would become a lot closer.  However, there are forces around the band that make it hard sometimes.

That was Carl Wilson's statement.
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« Reply #72 on: June 13, 2007, 07:18:12 PM »

I think, given the opportunity, Mike and Brian would become a lot closer.  However, there are forces around the band that make it hard sometimes.

That was Carl Wilson's statement.


And what do you know.... it is still true  Angry
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« Reply #73 on: June 13, 2007, 07:23:22 PM »

It is.
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« Reply #74 on: June 13, 2007, 07:58:01 PM »

A certain member of Brian's band (I won't say which one) once told me "Brian's the sweetest guy in the world...some of the people around him are kind of creepy, but if I had a chance to save Brian's life by cutting off my own arm...I'd effin' do it, man!". 
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