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Author Topic: Origins of Brians '80s' voice  (Read 13021 times)
matt-zeus
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« on: January 23, 2006, 05:53:05 AM »

I've been trying to pinpoint the time at which Brians voice changed from his late 70's gruff voice to his more whiny 80s voice. I always thought it would have been sometime around 82ish, when I read that allegedly Brian had a some sort of drug induced stroke which may have explained his slurred delivery thereafter. I really don't know if this is true, the reason i'm doubting this date though was evidence I saw when i obtained the Beach Boys at knebworth DVD. When Brian sings the intro of Sloop John B and the bridge of Surfer Girl, his voice is near identical to how it sounds now pretty much. Considering this wasn't too long after he had recorded a couple of lines for Goin' on, and the demo of Night bloomin jasmine (very gruff 1979), this has thrown me into confusion. Its not the smooth voice like on Matchpoint of our love (which is closer to Busy doin nothin) and bear in mind that theres a couple of demos from 83 on the BW88 reissue which have his '80s' voice. I have not heard any more of Brians early 80s demos - Black Widow etc so i have no idea what he sounds like. Apologies for the anality of this thread. If anyone can shed any light then please do so.
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Ron
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« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2006, 06:15:56 AM »

The problem with things like this is that to me I hear some of that 80's type voice you're talking about all the way back through their catalogue.  If you listen to the H&V demo for instance with Barnyard I think he sounds a lot like he does now on that!  His voice certainly has some interesting nuances to it.  Sometimes he still sounds 19, like the beginning of "Don't Worry Baby" on the Roxy CD "welll, it's been buildin' up inside of me" the tone of his voice is nearly identical to the original (except in a lower key).  Or howabout the bridge to "Surfer Girl" he does now in concert.  These are the moments we live for, lol.
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Ron
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« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2006, 06:17:18 AM »

Oh, and check out the background vocals on "The night was so young".  80's voice, in 1976!  "Is some - body gonna tell me?"
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NimrodsSon
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« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2006, 07:58:55 AM »

...when I read that allegedly Brian had a some sort of drug induced stroke which may have explained his slurred delivery thereafter.

As far as I know, all the experts seem to agree that Brian has never had a stroke.
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NimrodsSon
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« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2006, 08:05:04 AM »

The thing that puzzles me about Brian's voice is that, however much the tone may have changed in the 80's and especially early nineties (BW 88 sounds very similar to young Brian in many parts--in fact, most of it to my ears. But then listen to Sweet Insanity, Paley sessions, or IJWMFTT--the tone is completely differet), his vocals were still consistently in tune up until '99 when, all of the sudden, out of nowhere he began going out of tune pretty regularly, which progressively got worse until about 2004, at which point it has pregressively gotten a little better. Is that just old age?
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« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2006, 08:55:56 AM »

You just never know.  My wife and I swore up and down in 2000 on the Pet Sounds Tour that Brian sounded just like the original record on Sloop John B.
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I. Spaceman
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« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2006, 11:35:23 AM »

Brian DID NOT HAVE A STROKE!
He was given massive doses of Thorazine by Landy.
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« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2006, 11:44:52 AM »

drug induced stroke

If Brian had a drug-induced stroke, he would NOT be out there singing the songs every night like he was in 1999-2005. Hell, he never would have been the same.
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Roger Ryan
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« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2006, 01:17:45 PM »

The thing that puzzles me about Brian's voice is that, however much the tone may have changed in the 80's and especially early nineties (BW 88 sounds very similar to young Brian in many parts--in fact, most of it to my ears. But then listen to Sweet Insanity, Paley sessions, or IJWMFTT--the tone is completely differet), his vocals were still consistently in tune up until '99 when, all of the sudden, out of nowhere he began going out of tune pretty regularly, which progressively got worse until about 2004, at which point it has pregressively gotten a little better. Is that just old age?

Apart from a few backing vocals (and, perhaps, lead vocals according to some) on GIOMH, where was Brian going out of tune regularly in the studio (apart from Paley demos)? If you meant live performances...well, prior to '99 there really weren't any of merit. From my experience, his live vocals have gotten consistently better since '99. Save those possibly rushed vocals on some of GIOMH, his studio vocals have improved as well.
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NimrodsSon
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« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2006, 01:39:44 PM »

I was referring to live vocals. In the studio he does fine. You're right about there not being many of any merit before ninety-nine, but take, for example, his performance of Orange Crate art on the IJWMFTT documentary. It's practically flawless, and he could never pull that off like that today in a live situation, especially with that range. Which leads to something else. In the early nineties his falsetto was still in great shape (obviously not the same as the early years, but in very decent shape, all things considered), but all of the sudden on his first tour in '98 or '99, whenever it was, he could barely sing falsetto, and now he can't at all (you can argue that he does on Surf's Up and what not all you want, but listen to him live. Every time he goes into falsetto it's just raspy and airy. There's no strength to it at all.)
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Ron
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« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2006, 02:46:25 PM »

I think that's just different strokes for different folks, In my opinion Brian pulls off some fairly amazing things in concert in the last two years or so.  Look @ him doing things like "Good To My Baby" on that Carnegie Hall performance.  Or, look back at some of the songs like "Surfer Girl" he was singing live in the early 90's, horrible, horrible off key performances. 

Some of those performances on the IJWMFTT video are great, but then some of the Christmas Performances he did on televison last month were great as well. 

I think with Brian it's a mood thing, sometimes he's in the mood to sing well sometimes he doesn't care if it sounds good or not. 
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TheLazenby
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« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2006, 04:00:29 PM »

I'm thinking age.   Just listen to Roger Waters nowadays, he actually *sounds* like an old man.  ("Amused To Death" is a great example.)

I haven't heard anything of Brian's recently except "Smile", and I thought he sounded pretty good, even on the live DVD.  Certainly not the "classic" Wilson voice, but pleasant enough.
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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2006, 05:47:33 PM »

I don't think we can really trust what he sounds like on CDs anymore; there's always post-production to make his voice sound better than it really is. Same thing with TV, most of those performances were lip-synched.

It certainly sounds sometimes like Brian's had a stroke.. in the IJWMFTT documentary, for example, it sounds like he doesn't have full control of his mouth, as if part of it were numb or paralyzed.
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« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2006, 05:52:02 PM »

In the documentary footage on the Special Features of the Mayor Of The Sunset Strip DVD, Brian expresses embarassment at his slurring in IJWMFTT.
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« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2006, 11:08:27 PM »

I think that's just different strokes for different folks

Umm, Ron... coulda phrased that a little better.  Wink

The whole stroke thing is interesting - everyone close to Brian says he hasn't had one, and has for some 20 years... but when I showed my doctor some footage of him talking, walking and jogging from 1985/6 (because he asked to, knowing my BB interest), without my prompting he said he would put money on Brian having had a mild stroke, maybe more than one, and that he would also bet that he didn't know he'd had it. That said, Brian was talking out of the side of his mouth back in the early 60s.
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« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2006, 11:42:50 PM »

I wonder how much is due to his hearing. He was already deaf in one ear; i'm sure that at age 63 his hearing in his "good" ear might be slipping.
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« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2006, 11:50:22 PM »

The problem one sometimes runs into in trying to track the progression of his voice through his singing over the years is that there are so many other variables that can play into how he sounds when he is singing.

What perhaps can help track his voice better is how his speaking voice sounds. This is of course a bit more difficult because it requires tracking down and dating TV, film, or other audio recordings of interviews.

Listen to him, for instance, in the "It's OK" bed interviews (also seen in part in the "An American Band" documentary). If you close your eyes, his speaking voice sounds relatively similar to his 60's voice. Sure, there's a bit more scratchiness to it, and a lot of times a guy will sound less youthful when he's 34 versus 21. But there is no slurring.

Then, take a look at something like a TV interview from 1983 or so, when he was hooked back up with Landy. The voice is perhaps a bit more whiney, but it still doesn't sound slurred.

Fast foward to something like his infamous 1991 "Primetime Live" profile (which profiled Landy as well), and there seems to be some measure of slurring. Something happened during those Landy years the second time around in the 80's. Whether it was gradual or sudden, I can't tell. I doubt we'll ever really know.

As for his singing, I think it's interesting that if you compare something like the 1995 "IJWMFTT" soundtrack or "Orange Crate Art"  to even "Imagination" or anything he's recorded since then, it seems that his circa 1995 voice was more whiney and shrill. His circa 1998-present voice is much smoother. However, I think back in 1995, that whiney, shrill voice stayed in key better. Those Was soundtrack recordings (which I think were recorded in 1994) were presumably live, in-studio recordings (although I'm sure little bits were tidied up here and there). Brian's current live voice in particular is much smoother, but more apt to wander off key. I think perhaps he has consciously switched to a warmer, softer, smoother voice, but at the expense of being able to hit all of the notes properly all the time.

I've seen Brian on every US tour since he started in 1999. I've seen some improvements in some areas, and I've seen him sing quite well and sing very poorly. There are two things I see many Brian fans say that I just can't really agree with:

1. Many fans think his voice has markedly improved on each tour from 1999 to present. I just don't see this (or, rather, I suppose I should say "hear" this). He has good nights and bad nights, and I would say that his 2005 vocal performances overall are better than his 1999 performances. But on some songs in 1999, he sounded pretty good, and on a few numbers even in 2005, he sounds not very good at all. I haven't seen any trackable progression on every single tour.

2. Some fans, as well as other famous musicians, have said that Brian sometimes today sounds as good as he did in the 60's, and/or that his live "Pet Sounds" is better than the original recording, etc. No way. In my opinion, of course. I've never heard Brian since 1999 sound anywhere near as good as his prime in the 60's. Not that he should. The only person I've heard in the last few years who sounds almost literally the same as he did in the 60's is Al Jardine. But back to Brian, I think he rarely sounded like the Brian of the 60's after, well, the 60's! I think the last time I heard a falsetto from Brian that almost sounded like it did in the 60's was on recordings like "Airplane" or "Sherry She Needs Me" (the '76 vocal take), and even on those recordings, one really has to single out a few measures here and there. Brian's normal register singing voice managed to sound pretty smooth on some of the "MIU" album tracks, but even on those tracks, I don't think he sounds like he did in the 60's.
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Roger Ryan
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« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2006, 10:04:15 AM »

I believe Melinda is correct when she said Brian sounded most out-of-it when he was coming off the heavy drugs Landy was feeding him. The IJWMFTT documentary was filmed during the period he was being weaned off the psychotropic drugs and you can literally tell what segments were shot early (the more doped-up Brian explaining the origins of "Good Vibrations") and what segments were shot after his system was more or less cleaned out (his interview on the sofa with Melinda). Granted, Brian's on-going depression figures into this too (see "SMiLE" doc for an example), but he seems to have had quite a bit of trouble in '92 & '93. It's also important to note that Brian resumed smoking cigarettes in '92 which definitely affected his vocals on everything from "Orange Crate Art" through "The Wilsons" album. He was able to quit again in '96 and his vocals became smoother. As for his consistency, IJWMTT was a controlled environment, not a live concert. I've noticed Brian will tend to give better vocal performances over the last few years in smaller theatres, but will not be as outgoing. In larger outdoor settings, his voice is less consistent, but he will often be more animated or jokey. Obviously, his tone is not anywhere near as pure as in the 60s, but his emotional delivery has definitely improved over the last few years and I think that's what fans are reacting to when they hear "Pet Sounds" or "SMiLE" live.
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« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2006, 03:47:52 PM »

During the 10/13/04 concert in Houston, I caught something rather intersting. During "Drive-in" there was a part of the song where he actually screamed the vocals, and damned if he didn't sound EXACTLY like he did in '76.
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« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2006, 04:11:35 PM »

I'm still wondering the origins of Brian's sixties voice, man.
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« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2006, 04:38:18 PM »

During the 10/13/04 concert in Houston, I caught something rather intersting. During "Drive-in" there was a part of the song where he actually screamed the vocals, and damned if he didn't sound EXACTLY like he did in '76.
Yeah, that was a regular part of the tour, on the words "goin' broke".
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« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2006, 06:47:05 PM »

I'm still wondering the origins of Brian's sixties voice, man.

Heaven?

Anyway, it seems a bit silly to worry too much about a singer's "voice," since most singers have several. There's the obvious (and previously discussed here) differences between chest voice, head voice, falsetto, etc., but there are also just different timbres that singers tend to use for different ranges, different melodies, etc. Brian's voice has changed, obviously, over the years, but to assume there is a date before which it was X and after which it was Y is a bit of a reach.

All that said, I place the date at Oct. 3, 1981. I did scientific calculations, goddamnit.
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« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2006, 01:29:07 AM »

I'm glad thats cleared that up.
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« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2006, 05:43:50 AM »

I think he defininately has moments when he sounds as good as ever.  Not a whole song, just bits and pieces here and there.  "First Noel" at the end when he lifts up into falsetto is gorgeous and pretty much as perfect as he ever was, even if for just a phrase.  "Wind Chimes" on the 04 smile, although different than the original, is dead on key and high.  The high, only Brian falsetto in the first two verses of the 04 GV.. "It's weeeeeiiiirrrrd" dead on key and pretty strong.  The strangest to me is the high, walking the line, fading out of audible sound, thin, but barrrrrrrrrrely dead on key title lines on the Roxy version of "Caroline, No".  Not that crazy note at the end, he butchers that, but he very thinly, almost out of control barely grabs the note at the end of each "Ohhhh carolineee whyyy?" and such through the song.  Really pretty. 
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« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2006, 08:36:23 AM »

I've only seen the Smile documentary so I don't have much to compare to, but did he always only talk out of one side of his mouth?  I just wondered, because hearing the old outtakes where he speaks (like the piano rendition of H&V) that didn't appear to be so.  It just seems like now he actually *sounds* like someone who is partially deaf, whereas in the early days, you couldn't really tell.
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