David Marks story

[Pretty Funky]

http://www.newstimeslive.com/news/story.php?id=1055060&source=big_barker#tt

[the captain]

Something that really annoys me. Call it bad journalism or call it me being anal:

"But between 1964 and 1967 -- using hired studio musicians to play and sing Marks' parts -- they recorded 14 more albums."

This sentence makes it seem as if the music on those albums was written for Marks, but then as if he were excluded from those sessions. Obviously, the parts weren't HIS. Studio musicians were hired to play parts, sure, but not Marks' parts--not any more than those parts were Carl's parts or Al's parts or anyone else's. The studio musicians were hired to play PARTS.

Maybe it isn't a big deal...but it annoys me. That sentence makes it seem like a conspiracy theory. "Let's kick out Marks and give his parts to [implied on-the-cheap] studio musicians!"

[HighOnLife]

Na, you aren't anal. It's pretty annoying.

I guess this journalist didn't do his homework, and know that Al had already come back to the group in '63? It's the same thing as proclaiming that studio musicians played on EVERY Beach Boys hit. Very lazy.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Jon Stebbins, I'm gonna get around to reading your book, but...

Didn't David Marks have any parents? He says that Murry made me do this, Murry made me sign that, Murry knew which buttons to push. Come on, the kid was only 13-14 years old. Weren't his parents aware of what was going on.

Based on what David says, I don't know why the parents didn't intervene. It sounds hypocritical. If David or the Marks family knew that The Beach Boys were going to be really big, I can see why they would tolerate Murry - you know, for the fame and money. But David keeps saying that he had no idea they (the Beach Boys) were going to worth millions. So why did the family let their 13 year old son take all the crap? From the father of a band that they didn't know was gonna be so big...

[Jon Stebbins]

To get your head anywhere near being able to answer those questions you need to read the book. There are no simple answers, but context and nuance will help you get somewhere in the realm of understanding, which I can see you are nowhere near now. David's parents were at odds with Murry because they actually had their sights on a co-management interest in the BB's early on, Dave's father was the BB's tour manager for awhile, Dave's mom was one of the only people on earth who stood up to Murry... and the difficulties and battles between Murry and Dave's folks only made things worse for him. Yes he had parents, yes they were right in the mix, and no that wasn't helpful at all because of the way things transpired.

BTW...I think this journalist was merely suggesting eventually studio musicians did the work that David had once done...meaning play the guitar on Brian's songs. The guy did that badly and left too much of the point A to point B info...but he wasn't suggesting it was Dave's music...I didn't get that at all. And yeah Al did come back in '63 but he never put a guitar part (other than bass)on a BB's recording until after David was gone... post LDC LP sessions.

[Bicyclerider]

Yeah, I was listening to a Hawaii 63 tracking session - Al on bass, David on guitar, both called out by Murray who was producing the session (or trying to).

[Sheriff John Stone]

To get your head anywhere near being able to answer those questions you need to read the book. There are no simple answers, but context and nuance will help you get somewhere in the realm of understanding, which I can see you are nowhere near now. David's parents were at odds with Murry because they actually had their sights on a co-management interest in the BB's early on, Dave's father was the BB's tour manager for awhile, Dave's mom was one of the only people on earth who stood up to Murry... and the difficulties and battles between Murry and Dave's folks only made things worse for him. Yes he had parents, yes they were right in the mix, and no that wasn't helpful at all because of the way things transpired.

Thanks for the info, Jon! I look forward to reading the whole story in your book.

[c-man]

Yeah, I was listening to a Hawaii 63 tracking session - Al on bass, David on guitar, both called out by Murray who was producing the session (or trying to).

I was reading through the Peter Carlin book last night, and read for the first time a quote from David to the effect that Murry (as "producer" at some of these sessions) was responsible for the distinctive guitar sound on their early records.  I've heard the session tapes where Murry yells at the kids to "treble up" their guitar amps, and I've heard & read interviews with Dave where he kinda complains about that, so I've never really thought of it as a positive thing.  Over the years, Murry has been given credit for his managerial talents by various people who were around at the time.  But this is the FIRST time anyone has actually praised his ability as a PRODUCER in any way, shape or form!  I guess we have to give the "devil" his due! 

[John]

Something that really annoys me. Call it bad journalism or call it me being anal:

"But between 1964 and 1967 -- using hired studio musicians to play and sing Marks' parts -- they recorded 14 more albums."

Even worse, is the implication that session SINGERS were needed.

[Carrie Marks]

I found some things kind of annoying about this article as well, mostly because the guy was sitting in our kitchen and I heard what David actually told him.  The reporter was hand writing his notes (no recorder) and David even asked if he was going to be able to read his writing after the fact and then we see quotes and details that were mangled slightly.  Obviously, he had a little bit of trouble reassembling what David told him.

With that being said...I think your comment about the writer's impliying SINGERS weren't needed is a strench at best and bordering on absurd.  All he was saying is that studio musicians began playing parts that would have been David's if he stayed in the band.  And that is true for the most part.  Did you expect him to include an article about the vocal arrangements on Pet SOunds in an article about David Marks?  That would be out of context and irrelevant to the story he was telling.

As for the other implication that it comes off conspiratorial....we'll I say that once you read the book and get a feel for what happened, I don't think conspiracy is that wrong of a word to use to descibe what happened.  I don't believe the other Beach Boys knew about it, but Capitol Records and Murry WIlson defied a court order and ammend the Capitol Records contract to exclude David without approval from a Superior Court Judge.  If what they were doing was on the up-and-up, why didn't they go about handling David's departure legally and above the table?   When the Beach Boys signed with Capitol Records, they went about it in accordance with the law but when David left, they didn'y use the courts - which the law in the State of California AND the terms of the contract stated they had to do...why? 

You scoff at the idea of getting rid of David to hire cheaper studio guys but that is exactly what happened.  David was a 20% partner and got 1/5th of the income off a song but a studio guy gets union pay and has no further claim.  If that 20% wasn't an issue, they would have let Al Jardine be a partnered Beach Boy, rather than salaried, at the end of 1963.  Instead, Al wasn't made a full partner until a decade later. 

Compared to what most local reporters (and even so called experts in books if you want to get technical about it) put out about the Beach Boys on a daily basis and the factual mistake, I think this writer did a good job of telling the story.  If people are TRYING to find things to tear apart a story, then they will. 

[Carrie Marks]

Yeah, I was listening to a Hawaii 63 tracking session - Al on bass, David on guitar, both called out by Murray who was producing the session (or trying to).

I was reading through the Peter Carlin book last night, and read for the first time a quote from David to the effect that Murry (as "producer" at some of these sessions) was responsible for the distinctive guitar sound on their early records.  I've heard the session tapes where Murry yells at the kids to "treble up" their guitar amps, and I've heard & read interviews with Dave where he kinda complains about that, so I've never really thought of it as a positive thing.  Over the years, Murry has been given credit for his managerial talents by various people who were around at the time.  But this is the FIRST time anyone has actually praised his ability as a PRODUCER in any way, shape or form!  I guess we have to give the "devil" his due! 

I've heard David talk about this before.  He said that the treble Murry insisted they use (that David didn't like) made the songs sound better on small transister radios...which many of the poeple at the time were listening to the music on. That's where Murry's influence on the guitar sound began and ended. 

[the captain]

All he was saying is that studio musicians began playing parts that would have been David's if he stayed in the band.  And that is true for the most part. 

Thanks for that response, Carrie. Obviously, you can add a lot to this conversation.

I have quoted one of your sentences--the first one above--that I think is entirely accurate, and maybe what the writer of the article meant, but did not say. My original intention was to say there is a difference between hiring studio musicians to sing and play parts that would've been David's and hiring studio musicians to sing and play David's parts. That's all--I meant to explain that it is sloppy writing. Frankly, your sentence would've been more accurate and clearer than the writer's.

Edit: I'd be remiss not to add that, regarding my comment (and your response) about any conspiratorial-sounding aspects of the lines I referenced and the facts behind them, I will take your advice and wait to read the book. I ought not speak of what I do not know.

[voxnut]

Speaking of the book- it arrived yesterday from Amazon and I read it last night. Very interesting and I'm glad that David has gotten to a place of peace in life. Good job David and Jon!

My only minor quibble, and it's really minor- I've seen this before with books that were printed in the U.K. is the British editor changing quotes to fit the vernacular. There was a quote where David was talking about how one time the BBs didn't sell enough to generate a royalty check for him so he had to get "a paper round." Well I'm pretty certain he didn't use the term "paper round" because that's a British term, with U.S. folks normally saying "paper route." There were a couple of "mum" in place of "mom" and a few other things as well.

To me it's like having a Beatles book published in the U.S. with a Paul quote that says "My buddies would come over and my mom would always make lunch for us" when you know it would be more like "My mates would come round and my mum would serve tea." or something like that. It just sounds odd because your head voice suddenly assigns David a British accent when you know he doesn't have one.

I guess I can understand if the term isn't part of a direct quote but you'd think you'd write the quote as it was said - especially because I think there is enough cross-pollination within the U.K. and U.S. to have a familiarity with each other's basic terms.

Dean

[Jon Stebbins]

Speaking of the book- it arrived yesterday from Amazon and I read it last night. Very interesting and I'm glad that David has gotten to a place of peace in life. Good job David and Jon!

My only minor quibble, and it's really minor- I've seen this before with books that were printed in the U.K. is the British editor changing quotes to fit the vernacular. There was a quote where David was talking about how one time the BBs didn't sell enough to generate a royalty check for him so he had to get "a paper round." Well I'm pretty certain he didn't use the term "paper round" because that's a British term, with U.S. folks normally saying "paper route." There were a couple of "mum" in place of "mom" and a few other things as well.

To me it's like having a Beatles book published in the U.S. with a Paul quote that says "My buddies would come over and my mom would always make lunch for us" when you know it would be more like "My mates would come round and my mum would serve tea." or something like that. It just sounds odd because your head voice suddenly assigns David a British accent when you know he doesn't have one.

I guess I can understand if the term isn't part of a direct quote but you'd think you'd write the quote as it was said - especially because I think there is enough cross-pollination within the U.K. and U.S. to have a familiarity with each other's basic terms.

Dean

I totally agree. They really watered down my snappin' California accent... dude. I've never called gas "petrol" or candy "sweets" in my life bro...But I'm glad you dug the book.