Most overrated, most underated

[Steve Mayo]

I don't think I've ever read a good account of the Still Crusin' project.  Had they initially  planned on it being a full album of new material?

i remember reading an article, i believe it was in goldmine, with al who said something along the lines of they have to have 3 hit singles off the lp. the deal was for 3 singles. and if they sold well maybe capitol would sign them to a contract. something along those lines. of course, not sure if al really meant 3 or was kinda kidding. but he implied that if they sold singles well a contract once again with capitol would happen. i have that article somewhere in the house, i will try to locate it again.

[No. Fourteen]

Hmmm......interesting hoop to make them jump through.  Good ol' Capitol, always doin' right by the boys.

Thanks for the info, Steve.

[markcharles75]

Overrated: I agree concerning Sunflower. I could do without At My Window, It's about Time, Tears in the Morning, Cool Cool Water (just drags on...I like the shorter box set version). But the strong tracks DO shine. Just not a "masterpiece" or another Pet Sounds as it is described often. 

Underrated: late 70's output. MIU/L.A. twofer has plenty of good music to enjoy. I will defend Matchpoint until I die. Please just forget the lyrics, as that seems to be the argument against it (even though I think they are not that bad, its about losing love for Christ's sake, albeit with tennis metaphors.) The melody is great. period. Plus the part, "no one, could ever...how could love slip away from me??" ....is great. Same with Tomboy. Listen to that melody...great. Plus that music box/child like sound/ change over into the Hey Little Hey Little Hey Little TOMBOY part at the end.....and  the outro. I love it. Let me ask you this: if the lyrics were different, would fans dismiss it? Something  to think about.   So many tracks from this era...hmmm My Diane still floors me. Love it. One of Brian's absolute from the heart best. So dark and heavy. L.A. great stuff on there too. Good timin of course. I just like those two albums back to back. Lots of nice ballads.  I love Goin' South, Full Sail.  I think I find these two refreshing after the rough and gruffness of 15 big ones/Love You.
So yeah, it generally annoys me when people slag off these late 70's albums. There are treasures there to be found. Hence, UNDERRATTED!!! But each to their own.

[Emdeeh]

Overrated: Pet Sounds
Yes, you read that correctly. It's a highly influential album, I don't deny that. Has some great songs on it, but I've never understood why it gets put on a pedestal. An album worthy of consideration? Sure. Greatest album of all time? No way, imho -- I don't even think it's the best BB album. I don't expect anyone else to agree with me here.

Overrated: Love You
LY still sounds like the guys are slacking off to me. I heard them do much better versions of songs from LY live in concert before the album came out, and that spoiled me. I was disappointed, the album didn't live up to the live versions.


Underrated: Keepin' the Summer Alive
Some people hear a formula album. I hear an enjoyable album, with agreeable melodies and even some outstanding tracks (KTSA, Goin' On). Carl Wilson rocks!

Underrated: Beach Boys '85
Carl's singing is outstanding on this one.


Rated just right: Sunflower and Surf's Up
I love these two albums! This is my favorite period of BB music, when Dennis and Carl started emerging as writers.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Overrated: Pet Sounds
Yes, you read that correctly. It's a highly influential album, I don't deny that. Has some great songs on it, but I've never understood why it gets put on a pedestal. An album worthy of consideration? Sure. Greatest album of all time? No way, imho -- I don't even think it's the best BB album.

Which album(s) - Beach Boys or non-Beach Boys - do you think are better than Pet Sounds?

[punkinhead]

how is Our Sweet Love recycled?

[Sheriff John Stone]

how is Our Sweet Love recycled?

From reading about the recording of Sunflower, it appeared that the Beach Boys were really trying. And that was a good thing. But remember, the album was rejected by Warner Brothers. There was adding some songs and removing some songs. The guys were trying to get Brian involved, though I'm skeptical just how much he contributed to the album as a songwriter. How many lead vocals did Brian contribute? Anyway, the one song on the album that sounds "manufactured" to me, maybe to sound like a good-old Beach Boys' song is "Our Sweet Love". Don't misunderstand me, I like the song, and it's well done. But - to me - it sounds like they put "God Only Knows", "Wake The World", and maybe "Time To Get Alone" into Brian's blender, and came up with "Our Sweet Love". Again, I DO like the song - a lot.

[the captain]

My definition of "recycled" would probably be a song that is more directly derivative of, maybe even quoting, other songs. I agree that Our Sweet Love sounds like a Brian Wilson song, but there are dozens of BW songs where you could say that: be they for quarter note block chords on keyboards, descending bass lines, reverb-drenched auxiliary percussion or whatever other feature.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Luther, being a non-musician, I can't comment on the musical terms you referred to, though I actually think I know what you mean by them!

So, as a BB fan/listener I will simply say that "Our Sweet Love" sounds like a re-write of "God Only Knows".

[Emdeeh]

Too many to list here -- I mean that seriously. Pet Sounds ranks somewhere in the middle-ground for me.

[the captain]

Luther, being a non-musician, I can't comment on the musical terms you referred to, though I actually think I know what you mean by them!

So, as a BB fan/listener I will simply say that "Our Sweet Love" sounds like a re-write of "God Only Knows".

Fair enough, officer. Sorry, sir. (That policeman's cap freaked me out.)

[MBE]

When I spoke to Brian once we talked about Sunflower and he said basically that everyone was getting along and working well together. He said he was "Very" involved with it. He sang on nearly every song, he wrote seven of them, he co-produced much of it. Carl may have compiled the final mixes but remember Brian can not hear stereo so as most of us know he couldn't do a stereo mix all by himself and never has. He was still a dynamic songwriter, singer, and producer here. It's been debated back and forth, but to me Sunflower was the last time he really wanted to be a part of the group if not in charge of it. My opinion is that the use of Surf's Up in 1971 was the last straw as far as he was concerned. It was then (not after Smile) when the real disinterest manifested itself.

[Eric Aniversario]

Overrated: Pet Sounds
Yes, you read that correctly. It's a highly influential album, I don't deny that. Has some great songs on it, but I've never understood why it gets put on a pedestal. An album worthy of consideration? Sure. Greatest album of all time? No way, imho -- I don't even think it's the best BB album. I don't expect anyone else to agree with me here.

Pet Sounds was probably next on my little list of overrated albums.  A great achievement, yes, but not everyone connects with it; it's not immediately accessible to many.  Pet Sounds would probably make my top 20 Beach Boys albums list, but it would be in the lower half, even though it contains my favorite song (GOK).

Albums I like better? Friends, CATP, LA, In Concert, OCA, POB, 20/20, Sunflower, BWPS, Love You, and to a lesser degree: Live In London, Summer Days, SIP, Surfer Girl...

[MBE]

Wow I really still like Pet Sounds but do you all think you may not like it as much because there have been to many reissues and too much focuss on it?

[mikeyj]

Over-rated - SMiLE. I just thought of this one as being really over-rated (in my opinion). I am referring to BWPS and NOT The Beach Boys version. Firstly because compare Brians lead vocals on that to say the Brian vocal on the Surf's Up version off the box set. Obviously its not his fault. With age and obviously with the use of various drugs etc.. Brian's voice is of course not going to be as good. But that doesnt make it sound any better. Don't get me wrong I admire Brian for releasing this album after all the bad memories etc... But I just dont think the BWPS did the original version justice. Im not saying its a bad album just I think it is overrated.

I do however really love the live concert from the DVD. THAT for me is way more impressive than the CD version. I just think that the Beach Boys version was/is so far ahead of what Brian and his new band have completed. I just think the Beach Boys blend no doubt has something to do with it. Just listen to The Beach Boys version of Our Prayer compared to BWPS version of Our Prayer. The Beach Boys vocals just seem to lock in to each other and all work off each other somehow. It is a pretty indescribable feeling when you hear them at the peak of their powers. But also the producing abilities of a young Brian Wilson at his peak, brilliant studio musicians who have that something special in the way that they play, as well as brilliant and shared lead vocals (ie: Carl on some songs, Brian on some songs, Mike on some songs etc...) which just gives it some variety and of course some members of the band suited particular songs better whereas an older Brian doing every song just gets a bit boring. I also just think the instrumental tracks for BWPS are nowhere near the original versions. Please dont criticise me for saying these things.. Im not saying BWPS isnt good Im just saying it is by no means great in my opinion whereas by the segments and songs that have been released from the original SMiLE, The Beach Boys version most likely would have been considered great.

[mikeyj]

By the way Im surprised that people say that Pet Sounds is over-rated. While yes I think it is over-rated by some. But I think it is still one of the all time great albums. I dont think you can say that it IS the greatest album (its all so opinionated). Just take a look at the songs on the album. They are brilliant. Its not just WIBN, GOK and SJB or something there is some GREAT tracks on there: I Just Wasnt Made For These Times, You Still Believe In Me, Caroline No, Lets Go Away For Awhile (a brilliant song- one of my favourites), I Know Theres An Answer, Dont Talk.. I mean how can you not say that these (as well as the others) arent all GREAT songs?

[melissalynn]

I don't think Pet Sounds is 'over-rated'....just 'over-reissued'. I could do without all those reissues, seriously. It makes me get sick of it after a while, and that's something that just shouldn't be done. Nobody should have to get sick of Pet Sounds.

[Mahalo]

BWPS is not over-rated.....it is imo one of the most important events in the world of pop music whose impact is yet to be known. If one compares it to the original recordings then it can sound not up to par, obviously. HOWEVER, look at the way the songs have been molded together, the stellar collaborating with Van Dyke Parks on Blue Hawaii and On a Holiday, and the very clever maneuvering of Brian and Jeffrey's vocals throughout. These are just a few highlights on this album....

I personally feel VERY blessed everytime I hear this album. I also feel good knowing I can always go back to the Beach Boys versions to hear them in their original form. To have both is just such an awesome GIFT FROM GOD.

To make a long story short, BWPS is my favorite album.......!!!

[Mahalo]

Most Overrated would have to be .....I haven't made up my mind yet.
Most underrated is.....Smiley Smile....

Pet Sounds is not overrated. I get pissed when I hear people say "Pet Sounds is the Shiznit...Pet Sounds is the greatest album ever..." yet they can't even name one other Beach Boys album. I find myself listening to their other stuff lots more...so PS can sometimes feel inaccessible to me. However, just listening to the arrangements, wrecking crew, instrumentations, song structures, yadayadayada,.....it is the greatest album ever (besides BWPS)!!>...............no one else writes like that nowadays.......

[Eric Aniversario]

By the way Im surprised that people say that Pet Sounds is over-rated. While yes I think it is over-rated by some. But I think it is still one of the all time great albums. I dont think you can say that it IS the greatest album (its all so opinionated). Just take a look at the songs on the album. They are brilliant. Its not just WIBN, GOK and SJB or something there is some GREAT tracks on there: I Just Wasnt Made For These Times, You Still Believe In Me, Caroline No, Lets Go Away For Awhile (a brilliant song- one of my favourites), I Know Theres An Answer, Dont Talk.. I mean how can you not say that these (as well as the others) arent all GREAT songs?

I totally agree that those are all great songs...every one is a keeper, just like 99% of the catalog for me.  But I still think that it's a little overrated by fans.

[No. Fourteen]

Pet Sounds was my introduction to the studio albums (before  I'd listened to dad's copies of Endless Summer, Live In London and Best of...Vol 1 - where I was upended by "Kiss Me, Baby", which is what really started it all).  And while based on it's reputation seems like the logical first place to go, it coincided with the progression from junior high to high school, and all the growing pains that involves.  Add a not-quite-resolved crush or two, and I obsessed over that album for a few years, to the point where I remember answering exam questions with lyrics from that album! (No, I never spent time in a straightjacket.)  Thankfully, as time wore on and those sessions sets (official and unofficial) were made available I got even more of a love and appreciation for the music and it's genesis.  I'm sure a little music journalism here and there egged on the interest, and maybe nostagia plays a role in my feelings for the album, but I keep going back to it.  Nothing can top it for me.  I'm riveted every time I listen to that music. 

That said, I'm not as into "I Know There's An Answer" as I used to be!

It does seem unfortunate that  for anyone with a casual interest in the band, it's "reputation" puts all of their other albums in it's shadow.  And while I wonder how much of a role that plays in a fan's assessment of the album,  in the end one person's PET SOUNDS is another person's HOLLAND!

[the captain]

Perhaps part of people's opinion of Pet Sounds as being overrated comes from what long-time and knowledgeable fans most people here are. While I don't find the album to be overrated--especially among non-fanatics, many of whom STILL don't know the album--I do tend to take it for granted, sometimes for months at a time. By this, I mean when thinking of favorite songs/albums, I'll look to those I haven't so completely absorbed, and maybe OVER-rate others in its place. Then, somewhere down the line, I'll put it back in and just go...OH YEAH. THIS is why it's so great...

Maybe that has something to do with it. I don't know if I've recalled reading anyone say it is overrated along these lines: "You know, Pet Sounds just isn't very good..."

[markcharles75]

I agree with the comments concerning Pet Sounds. It is not overrated. What an absurd thing to say.  The tracks are brilliant.  Like Luther said, when I put it on from time to time ( I don't listen to it everyday) I am blown away. Maybe I should write my comments concerning the album fresh after listening late at night, after a few beer  when I am in the moment and think "Gosh Darn, this is amazing."  When I think about God Only Knows, I think "what other band comes close to WRITING such a magnificent song. It really is beautiful Truly amazing. I find I can listen to the backing tracks off of Pet Sounds and also be moved. It is true what Jardine said: that bridge to WIBN is simply amazing. And yes, I choke up. I think it is my favorite piece of Brian's music...that bridge. Caroline No overrated? no way man. no way. What a song. Anyways, I am not going to ramble about Pet sounds cause I could fill a book. Just chiming in to say I agree with the comments: not overrated.   Also, I strongly believe there IS a vibration to Pet Sounds. Brian said " I am going to make the best album ever" and it is a truly inspired album and many feel that.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Underrated:

3. Carl & The Passions-So Tough...definitely underappreciated.  This album was my first glimpse into the post-Surf's Up, pre-15 Big Ones Beach Boys, and I felt like a whole new world was opened up to me in terms of my fandom.  Every song is a keeper, and each track is like a well-kept secret, hidden from 99.9% of the world.


Overrated:

1. Holland...there are some really great songs on here, but the songs don't mesh well together.  The structure of the album seems really disjointed and awkward.  Perhaps the three-part California Saga would have been better at the end of side 2, and maybe another song could have been added to the lineup (9 is kind of a weird number).  "Funky Pretty" was much better live.

I think that the songs mesh on Holland much better then So Tough IMO

[Eric Aniversario]

I agree with the comments concerning Pet Sounds. It is not overrated. What an absurd thing to say.  The tracks are brilliant. 

Again, to reiterate, I am not denying that the tracks are brilliant.  Every song on Pet Sounds is great, and I mean that sincerely!  It is this type of comment, though, that makes it overrated for me.  For every fan that doesn't rank Pet Sounds in their top ten, there are 20 who think that it is absolutely absurd that someone would do that and still call themselves a fan.  Some fans make it out to be obligatory for fanhood to bow down to Pet Sounds and put it above all other albums.

Is it a unique piece of music history?  Yes.  A masterpiece?  Probably, yes.  Is it mandatory to glorify it above all other Beach Boys albums because of that?  Absolutely not.

BTW, MarkCharles, although I quoted your comment, I am not attacking you personally.  I just thought it was a good example of why I feel the way I do about PS being overrated.