Beach boys haters, do they really?

[halblaineisgood]

j

[Steve Mayo]

in a word...yes

try being a fan back in 68-70. one had to have a spine of steel to ignore the comments from people around you back then.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I don't find as many "haters" today compared to the 80's and 90's. Maybe some of the repackages actually worked. And, of course, Pet Sounds has only recently (the last ten years?) gotten the respect it deserves.

Another minor thing I have noticed is that some of the younger music fans (ages 18-28) are a little more sophisticated, and many of them are familiar with the name Brian Wilson, although not always in flattering terms...

[the captain]

Another minor thing I have noticed is that some of the younger music fans (ages 18-28) are a little more sophisticated, and many of them are familiar with the name Brian Wilson, although not always in flattering terms...

This is definitely true--over the past decade, most indie fans have "discovered" Brian Wilson/Beach Boys while in college, or thereabouts. I think quite naturally most are drawn to the sentiments of Pet Sounds, which their modern musical favorites tend to gush about, as do most indie sites (pitchfork, etc.). It then naturally leads to the stories about Brian and Smile, both of which are also great stories, even aside from all the music. 

[markcharles75]

Well I just wanted to add my two cents. I am from Newfoundland Canada.  I know NO ONE who seriously  likes the Beach Boys. I think I am the only one who appreciates the music. We have a pretty vibrant music scene here. Just zipping around all of the local musicians/bands MySpace pages (and talking to some of them after their shows), NEVER are the Beach Boys/Brian Wilson listed as influences. And some of their lists of influences are as long as my sleeve, yet no Brian/Beach Boys. It is incredible. I am a musician myself and I cannot understand how one can skip over such a magnificent body of work.

I have many theories. First, if you are a lover of music and a musician, you will always seek good music out. It is like you are attracted to it. So, if you are fourteen and get your first guitar and you love music, you WILL find yourself towards the Led Zeppelin 4 album, for instance. And then you seek out more Zeppelin. Then you may read reviews or interviews from famous musicians. Someone may mention the Zombies. You HEAR about how great they are, you seek it out.  Good music finds it way to you. That is not what is playing on the radio, but you get it. The REALLY good stuff.

With the Beach Boys, when you mention them, it is almost a knee jerk reaction: the same way when someone says "elvis." Jokes and negative imagery is conjured up. Sad to say, but to the common passive listener, "Elvis" conjures up images of impersonators, merchandise, Vegas etc....But the fans know about the power of his voice, the legendary Sun sessions etc...Sad to say, when I say "Beach Boys", a joke image is conjured up. That has to do with Barbara Ann and Fun Fun Fun, Full House etc...Sorry, but it does. Just last night, I told a co worker I loved the Beach Boys, and she laughed and called me a "loser." Seriously. But I knew she was not in no way a serious music fan. She had no knowledge of anything really. So that does not bother me. But even serious music fans are not aware of the Beach Boys.  I really do get the feeling they are dismissed. Part of the reason is that subconcious "you are joking right?" reaction. How that came to be? hmmm...maybe the 80's and 90's did more damage than we care to admit? I am not to sure. Maybe.

I do think there has been a MAJOR shift in the past 10 years or so. It IS HIP even underground to really really dig the Beach Boys. It is like "yeah, f*** you, I LOVE the Beach Boys....you know what you are missing out on?"  When I first got into them, I READ about how great this album Pet Sounds was. I had devoured every Beatles musical note that ever existed. Then I read/heard about how Brian Wilson gave them a run for their money in the 60's. My musical soul sought out the good music.  But it is a miracle that I did, because no one turned me on to them. 12 years later, I still have no contact with anyone here who loves the Beach Boys as much as I do. So, in my own quiet way, I try to say to whoever listens, "hey forget Kokomo, listen to THIS..."

Finally, when I first got into them, I swear, I could have been listening to the most underground/hard to find/indie stuff on the planet. No albums in the stores except greatest hits. Plus, I never ever ever ever hear the Beach Boys on the radio. Not on the classic rock stations. Not on the classic rock lunch hour. Not on a station here that plays just about EVERYTHING. I can remember two times I heard the Beach Boys on the radio. I heard California Girls. ONCE. And when Carl died, they announced it on my way to class and they played Good Vibrations. In 12 years, that is all the times I have heard the Beach Boys. Now isn't that damn amazing when you really contemplate it. Yet, somehow, people know FUn Fun Fun or Surfin USA...it is somehow mysteriously in our brains. And that is all anybody really knows. I have to add on a sidenote that I am not dismissing Brian's early work. I love it all folks.   So maybe the lack of radio play has influenced people's reaction.  I am sure if they played God only knows on the classic lunch hour as much as they play Revolution or Hotel California, some people may perk up. but they never.  That is the biggest mystery to me as a fan: the lack of airplay.

Anyways, I ramble. Just my two cents.

[MBE]

My mom didn't like them until she really heard them through me, most people I know did them though on one level. The Full House era was a lot more embarresing but since Pet Sounds and Smile gained more fame, they are considered pretty hip. It's funny but the period where they were considered really uncool here (67-70) was their coolest.

[mikeyj]

Ive shown my friends songs like Surf's Up, Til I Die etc.. and they say "I dont like it" but I can sense from the look on their faces they are thinking "what the heck, this is magnificent" atleast thats the impression that I get anyway.

One thing I really hate when I meet someone and tell them "Im a fan of The Beach Boys" is the way they sometimes really sarcastically sing one of the bands songs. Some people have even sung God Only Knows to me really sarcasticly to me as if to say "what a crappy song and band". But of course it sounds crappy when THEY sing it like that. Any song can sound crap if you have a negative attitude towards it and just sing it to yourself as if though its a real crap song. Can anyone relate to what Im saying?

[Jonas]

PEOPLE IVE MET WHO DONT LIKE THE BEACH BOYS LIKE THE BEATLES...

WHAT THE HELL DO THEY KNOW?

[the captain]

You know, one thing to keep in mind is: why wouldn't people who say they don't like it (when given a chance to hear it) not really like it.? What if everytime you said you disliked something that I like, I would respond with, "Oh, but does s/he REALLY not like it? I mean, it's [whoever]!!" Sometimes maybe we all ought to back off a little and accept that us liking something really means nothing in the bigger picture. Of course it is good quality. But not everyone likes everything of high quality. There are plenty of VERY talented bands that I dislike. So, should their fans question whether I'm putting on some kind of act of disliking them? Of course not--it's a matter of taste sometimes.

Just a late-night thought. And now, off to bed.

[mikeyj]

You know, one thing to keep in mind is: why wouldn't people who say they don't like it (when given a chance to hear it) not really like it.? What if everytime you said you disliked something that I like, I would respond with, "Oh, but does s/he REALLY not like it? I mean, it's [whoever]!!" Sometimes maybe we all ought to back off a little and accept that us liking something really means nothing in the bigger picture. Of course it is good quality. But not everyone likes everything of high quality. There are plenty of VERY talented bands that I dislike. So, should their fans question whether I'm putting on some kind of act of disliking them? Of course not--it's a matter of taste sometimes.

Just a late-night thought. And now, off to bed.

I see your point. And I do agree. But I just think that sometimes people say "I dont like The Beach Boys" only because its not cool to like them. I know for people my age in Australia it isnt "cool" to like The Beach Boys so I just think people might be a bit hesitant to admit it. I mean when I tell people I like The Beach Boys people just laugh at me or say "THAT crap band". So I think a lot of people at the risk of being "un-cool" say they dont like them. Of course Im not saying everyone who doesnt like them 'really' likes them Im just saying its very possible that SOME people just say "I dont like them" so that they can be safe and not be "uncool". I mean a lot of people my age just like whatevers cool anyway so therefore they wouldnt want to like something thats uncool.

[Ron]

To be honest, I've got a fairly strong personality, and when people say something negative about the band, I point specifically to their greatest EARLY songs and eventually people usually admit that they're one of the greatest bands of all time. 

Me: Oh, man, I LOVE the beach boys.  I'll drive around all day listening to them.

Friend: The beach boys?  Are you kidding me?

Me: What?  You mean to tell me, you don't like "I Get Around" or Surfin' U.S.A.?

Friend: Well, they're just so ol...

Me: Good music is good music.  "California Girls" is one of the greatest songs ever recorded! I love it!

eventually they see that much like the Beatles, and a tonnnnn of 60's music, there was a spark of magic in the earliest of Beach Boys songs and almost everybody I know respect the Beach Boys, even if they're not going to listen to their music all day. 

My theory is bands *THAT* good are generally inspired and maybe even tools of god, you can hear a little bit of everything great Brian Wilson was going to become and do in his voice when he yelps "Evvvvry bawdys gonnnn surrrrrfin!"... it's kinda like how the Beatles went "YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAHHHHH" while shaking their heads on stage doing She Loves You... the band never really got better than that.  The music became more sophisticated and eventually even moved away from the mainstream, but when they were shaking their heads and screaming at the top of their lungs into the microphones, in the beginning, they were just as good.  (In my opinion). 
If you can get a music lover (i.e., a human being, everybody loves music) to see that even the earliest of the BB's or Beatles music was great, eventually it will follow that their later music was nothing short of masterful.  Play somebody "Good to my Baby" or "Do you want to know a Secret?" and tell me they don't fall in love with it. 

[Amy B.]

I have tried time and time again to get my friends into the BBs. The reaction I get is an unenthusiastic, "Yeah, it's good" (clearly humoring me) or "It's good, but it's not my thing." Then when I try to get them to go to a BW concert with me, they don't want to. Even my friends who DID go weren't swept away by it.

I have come to a few conclusions:
1. Even if a band is great, it really has to hit a person on an emotional, personal level for that person to fall in love with it. It's like any art. It's like when a group of people goes to a museum and look at a painting, and one person lingers in front of it for a little bit longer. It's a great painting, a masterpiece, but it meant more to that one person.

2. For some people, some elements of the BBs are hard to take. One of my friends can't stand Brian's falsetto. Well, that's a pretty major part of BBs music, for the 60s, anyway. If you can't get past one element of a band or artist, like Dylan's voice or Brian May's guitar solos, then it's going to be hard for you to listen to the other parts.

3. BBs music is so accessible and so ingrained in our culture that it's hard for some people (even radio programmers, apparently) to see it as great art. Granted, the Beatles music has the same qualities, but the general consensus is that Beatles = Greatness-- moptops to psychedelic to acoustic to everything else. Brian's musical development isn't as well known. Therefore, Beach Boys =nerdy surf music that I heard on the oldies station last week or that song that played on the commercial for 409 all-purpose cleaner.

[Amy B.]

By the way, very few people know about Dennis's songs, apart from "Forever." When I ask people to listen to those, they _love_ them and have no idea that it's the Beach Boys or anything related. 

[mikeyj]

By the way, very few people know about Dennis's songs, apart from "Forever." When I ask people to listen to those, they _love_ them and have no idea that it's the Beach Boys or anything related. 

Thats interesting. I too showed some friends Dennis's stuff and they loved it. But they couldnt get into The Beach Boys. I think your points were spot on, I agree with all of them.

[Mahalo]

I played "Surf's Up", the demo version, for this kid, and he was amazed....he couldn't believe it was the Beach Boys. Still, he went on about how crappy they were.   "I heard there was a secret chord, that David played and it pleased the Lord, but you don't really care for music, do you?..." John Cale, Hallelujah

[the captain]

To play something a Beach Boys non-fan has never heard or heard of and have him or her like it doesn't mean that person ought to become some kind of Beach Boys disciple. I, myself, still dislike quite a bit of their stuff--especially among the earliest albums and pretty close to everything from LA on. So am I a fan or a nonfan?  And even on their better albums, I would think most people who maintain a certain distance from the material can admit their stuff is up-and-down. (I'd say Pet Sounds is the only close-to-perfect album. My next favorites are Today!, Friends, Holland, Love You, Surf's Up...and there are parts of each I don't really like. I know others will disagree with that, which is fine.)

My question is, why do we need the validation of other people for our tastes? What makes it so important for someone else to like what we like? Believe me, ALL of my friends have been exposed to more Beach Boys through me than they'd ever want to be. Most have taken parts of the output into their regular rotations, but only a bit here and there. One likes Friends, most like Pet Sounds and Smile, and a couple like Brian's more eccentric moments, like the Adult Child and Love You stuff.

As for worrying about real conversions, though, or wondering whether peer pressure has something to do with disliking it, I'm just glad they don't force their Pixies and XTC and whatever else on me. Because I think it's sh*t. And I wonder whether people on their boards are typing these exact same sentiments in reverse..."People would love [band] if they'd just listen the way we do and not worry about [whatever]."

[Jonas]

My question is, why do we need the validation of other people for our tastes? What makes it so important for someone else to like what we like? Believe me, ALL of my friends have been exposed to more Beach Boys through me than they'd ever want to be. Most have taken parts of the output into their regular rotations, but only a bit here and there. One likes Friends, most like Pet Sounds and Smile, and a couple like Brian's more eccentric moments, like the Adult Child and Love You stuff.

I don't think its about the music being accepted by others as much as trying to find someone that can like it just as much as you do. If that happens, imagine the possibilities of hanging out, listening to albums, talking about the music. If you're musicians you can collaborate and cover songs or even write stuff influenced from the group. I always make mix cds of Beach Boys stuff for people hoping to find one person that will like them as much as I do, just so that we can have something to talk about that I hold very dear.

[Mahalo]

IMO the BB's best stuuf is way better than the Beatles' best stuff....but the BB's worst stuff is much worse than the Beatles' worse stuff...


the BB's are not Hip, and never will be....if they were considered to be Hip, whatever that means, then boatloads more of people would've jumped on the bandwagon....

[the captain]

I don't think its about the music being accepted by others as much as trying to find someone that can like it just as much as you do. If that happens, imagine the possibilities of hanging out, listening to albums, talking about the music. If you're musicians you can collaborate and cover songs or even write stuff influenced from the group. I always make mix cds of Beach Boys stuff for people hoping to find one person that will like them as much as I do, just so that we can have something to talk about that I hold very dear.

I see your point, and as I said, I have often and (with other people--I'm not going to keep beating the same people over the head) will continue to share my preferences with people. But I also really enjoy other people disagreeing and challenging me on my taste, as I do with theirs. To me, that is as rewarding--or more--than agreeing.

[Bicyclerider]

Among the people who are into music fads and who think themselves hip but actually have no musical taste of their own but follow the "indie" crowd or whatever the fashion is of the moment, they of course despise or denigrate anyone who likes something as nonhip as the Beach Boys.  But those who have musical taste and explore good music on their own without regard for what their friends are listening to, always discover the Beach Boys music, whether through Sgt. Pepper or John Cale or Roy Wood or XTC or whomever.  Some of the  Beach Boys music I've found is just not to some listeners' taste, even though they will admit it's good music.  That's cool, everyone has their own aesthetic as to what they enjoy listening to.  The other group that usually gets into the Beach Boys music is fellow musicians, who can appreciate what Brian is doing better than the average listener, but even there not everyone likes it.  The band Continental Drifters had a couple of Beach Boys fans (they'd do Farmer's Daughter in concert) but the rest of the band didn't like them.

[the captain]

Among the people who are into music fads and who think themselves hip but actually have no musical taste of their own but follow the "indie" crowd or whatever the fashion is of the moment, they of course despise or denigrate anyone who likes something as nonhip as the Beach Boys. 

Please don't take this as a personal insult--I absolutely don't mean it as one--but I think that is a simplified version of reality.

I think all of us are influenced more than we want to admit by outside pressures. There have been studies done about people's views of how advertising affects them, for example. Almost everyone says advertising has a significant effect on other people, but little-to-no effect on themselves. In other words, everyone thinks him- or herself above that kind of outside pressure, even while admitting that almost everyone is indeed affected by it. And conversely, even people who do to a large extent discover music through outside pressures and are concerned with their images certainly have some kind of taste. Perhaps that person just isn't interested in music in any technical depth, and thus the complex harmony in this song or that, or VDP's reference-laden lyric in this or that song, just isn't as important as a good melody and a beat you can dance to. That person has musical taste: it's just different than many of our tastes. Their tastes lead them to different music, which is fine.

Lastly, I think it's pretty safe to say the Beach Boys actually HAVE been hip among indie hipsters for better than a decade. Don't mistake their late 60s, or late 70s-early 90s, lack of commercial success and "hipster cred" for a current one. Nearly every good indie band--and many, many indie fans--will readily cite the Beach Boys as major influences.

[Aegir]

In my experience, most of the people I know that hate the Beach Boys will think they like the Beach Boys until they hear things like Smile(y Smile), Friends, Sunflower, et cetera. Many times in the car with my mom I've been listening to the Beach Boys and she's said something like, "THIS IS CRAP! Can't you put on Help Me Rhonda or something?" The worst was my self-made Still Cruisin'/Summer in Paradise twofer with the three 60s songs at the end of Still Cruisin'. Hot Fun in the Summertime can never sound good to a sane person coming immediately after California Girls.

[Lola Jane]

I think it is true to say that there is a good deal of underground BB cult admiration now and that it is considered quite cool among certain genres of the music biz to cite a BB or Brian reference.  It's a back-handed way of adding kudos to your own eclectic musical integrity.  It annoys me that media airplay is restricted to (mostly) Good Vibrations and occasionally one or two other Greatest Hits and never anything from the rest of the back catalogue.  That may have a lot to do with the touring playlists which, for a substantial number of years, kept to the more well-known tracks (rightly?, in order to please a paying audience).  The BB were cultivating their own un-hipness, knowingly or otherwise.

As for the Beatles comparison; the Beatles were considered to be, generally speaking, better looking, wittier, more articulate about their own music and influences and, of course, English which can be an asset in the American market (I'm not subscribing to this, by the way).  I've recently listened to some Beatles demos and studio work and marvelled at some of the lyrical intelligence and melodic content.  But they were not more progressive than Brian Wilson, IMO I think that their melodies were more accessible to a wider audience than Brian's, in his more off-beat moments.  Accessible, not better or cooler.

England has also been seen as somewhere more sensitive to musical progression and has a history of supporting the underdog, hence some BB support at a time when the American market all but threw them out of the water.  But even here there is a lot of ignorance of the back catalogue.  I wouldn't describe the feeling quite so much as hate, more like trying to offer coal miner a milk shake when he ordered a pint of ale.
 

[Shady]

People in my school love the beach boys, I very rarely meet a hater, maybe that's because pet sounds is on our course.

[Manchini]

People in my school love the beach boys, I very rarely meet a hater, maybe that's because pet sounds is on our course.

Sounds like a school I would wanna attend. 

A couple of my friends got kind of into the Beach Boys after I exposed them to the stuff they weren't used to and the rest of my friends just respect my obsession but still aren't into it.  One of my friends and a co-worker both described the Beach Boys as "the Backstreet Boys/N'Sync of the '60s," however.