Just when I thought I'd seen it all... (controversy warning)

[Jason]

...THIS ends up in my inbox.

If you had little faith in humanity before, you'll have even less now.

DISCLAIMER - what follows is incredibly racist, and if you are easily offended, don't even bother reading further. I can't be bothered to censor this.

DISCLAIMER - this is an email sent out by a friend of mine who I "thought" was a friend. He's actually a bloody National Socialist. I do not agree with NS politics.










































Proud To Be White

Someone finally said it.

How many are actually paying attention to this?




There are African Americans, Mexican Americans,

Asian Americans, Arab Americans, Native Americans, etc.

And then there are just Americans.

You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction.

You Call me "White boy," "Cracker," "Honkey,"

"Whitey," "Caveman" .. And that's OK.

But when I call you, n*****, Kike, Towel head, Sand-n*****,

Camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook, or Chink ... You call me a racist.

You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you,

So why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?

You have the United Negro College Fund. You have Martin Luther King

Day. You have Black History Month. You have Cesar Chavez Day. You

Have Yom Hashoah You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi You have the NAACP.

You have BET.

If we had WET (White Entertainment Television) .. We'd be racists.

If we had a White Pride Day . You would call us racists.

If we had White History Month . We'd be racists.


If we had any organization for only whites to "advance" OUR lives ..

We'd be racists.

We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of

Commerce, and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce.

Wonder who pays for that?

If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships

... You know we'd be racists. There are over 60 openly proclaimed

Black Colleges in the
US , yet if there were "White colleges" .

THAT would be a racist college.

In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching

For your race and rights. If we marched for our race and rights,

You would call us racists.

You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're

Not afraid to announce it. But when we announce our white pride ..

You call us racists.

You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a white police officer

Shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug-dealer running

From the law and posing a threat to society .. You call him a racist.

I am proud.

But, you call me a racist.

Why is it that only whites can be racists?

There is nothing improper about this e-mail.

[the captain]

Saddest of all, in my experience, when people have said things along these lines (although I can't say I've ever heard anyone string together so much hateful stupidity all in one place), trying to discuss issues reasonably with them never works out. A few half-informed TV news clips and a handful of negative stereotypes and BLAMMO--indisputable, misguided world view.

I do remember some chain email going around shortly after 9/11 that was veiled in the language of patriotism, but amounted to not much more than an anti-Islam, anti-Middle Eastern and pro-nukes (yep, you read that right) diatribe. I felt similarly ill after this one as I did then.

[Jason]

The thing about this email that pisses me off is that it came from a VERY close companion of mine, a friend of over ten years. I'd like to know how long this dude kept his rather unflattering politics secret from me.

I'm half-Italian, and the last time I checked, NS people want nothing to do with Italians.

I would like to make it known here and now that this thread is NOT a means to grab attention. I would like to hope this thread will lead to some insightful discussion as opposed to more of the same like I had to be exposed to in this email.

[smile-holland]

National Socialism in the US…an interesting topic. It makes me wonder what makes some-one think he or she is a “just” American or for that matter a “pure” American. You already gave a remark in that direction, Jason, by saying you’re half Italian. Last year my wife and I were on vacation for 3 weeks in California and Arizona. A great experience btw! We spoke with several people over there. Of course pretty soon the standard question “Where are you from” is asked (must be the accent…  ). As soon as you tell him/her that you’re Dutch, the an-swer is not that he/she is an American, but “My parents are from Sweden”, or “My dad mar-ried a German during his military service” or “I’m partly Serbian”. We even met an older lady who was born 2 villages away where we live! Of course we also noticed them being proud of their homeland, but it’s interesting to observe that a lot of US-citizens are very aware of their original background as well.

Since emigration to the promised land started – hundreds of years ago – lots of Europeans tried their luck... followed by people from other continents as well (albeit often being forced to). An emigration that continues to this day. But whether your ancestors emigrated – let’s say – 2 generations ago or 200 years ago, according to origin, in my opinion, even the “whit-est” American would not a true American. Or is there a time-limit which determines you’re a true American? Or is being a true American all about being proud of your country? I’d be in-clined to go for the last one.
Lets me wonder about my own ancestry. I’d call myself a “real” Dutchman…but I know there’s a bit of French blood from (quite) some generations back. And then my wife: born in South Africa, daughter of two people who both emigrated with their parents in the fifties to SA, but were born in…The Netherlands! So that would make her….South African?...Dutch?... one could get in a serious identity crisis thinking about this!


Things that come to mind now, feel free to discuss these, it’s just my humble & naïve point of view:

1. The black pride movement (if I’m allowed to call it like that), which seems to irritate the author, is not a suddenly occurring event. There are some 100’s years of history that pre-ceded this. Did your (former) friend look at this in this perspective as well (as I’m reading a 1-sided story now)? And does he acknowledge the often negative role the “whities” played in that history? Not trying to blame someone specifically here. My ancestors did quite some horrible things during the golden century as well;

2. If one mentions African, Mexican, Asian, Arab and Native Americans, in my opinion the category “just Americans”, as your friend seems to call himself, doesn’t exist. A European American perhaps? Btw, chances are big that even if you’re “white”, you’re a mix of an-cestors with different European backgrounds, perhaps with a small percentage of Asian/African/Arabian blood as well (without knowing about it)?... ;

3. If there’s a “just” American, the closest category – no, the only ones that could carry that title – would be the Native American or American Indian. So unless the former friend in-deed IS a native American, he’s remarks on being a “just” or “real” American would be inappropriate;

4. Being an American (or a Dutchman, a Chinese, an Italian, an Algerian, wherever you’re from) should be about being proud of your country, not the colour of your skin;

5. The black-white American discussion is not just a US-issue. It occurs in Europe as well, or for that matter worldwide. And it’s of all times.


This can turn out to be an interesting but sensitive thread. But I guess we’re all sensible enough to keep this discussion on a grown-up level.


Suddenly I’m thinking of the Heroes & Villains refrain…
and The Trader comes to mind as well…

[SloopJohnB]

(...)

2. If one mentions African, Mexican, Asian, Arab and Native Americans, in my opinion the category “just Americans”, as your friend seems to call himself, doesn’t exist. A European American perhaps? Btw, chances are big that even if you’re “white”, you’re a mix of an-cestors with different European backgrounds, perhaps with a small percentage of Asian/African/Arabian blood as well (without knowing about it)?... ;

3. If there’s a “just” American, the closest category – no, the only ones that could carry that title – would be the Native American or American Indian. So unless the former friend in-deed IS a native American, he’s remarks on being a “just” or “real” American would be inappropriate;

(...)

Basically, you said what I was thinking. And this cultural diversity is widely considered to be one of the strengths of the US of A.

However...

(and first, I'd like to say that I'm waaaay far from being racist - I even often join anti-racist festivals or walks, and my ancestors come from various countries (Spain, Germany, Russia & Lebanon); I'm proud of my mixed origins)

... 3 or 4 months ago, I was walking in the street and a black person asked me for 5 euros. I had nothing in my pockets, so I politely said that I was sorry and that I didn't have any money. But then he said somthing like "you whites are all the same, foda you". I didn't reply anything and went on walking, and then he yelled "Foda France! Foda the white Frenchies who deserve to die!".

Then we talked about this with my friends, who were walking with me. We decided to press charges against this guy to see what would happen.

And basically, the policeman replied that it wasn't worth complaining and that I wouldn't get anything.

And the fact is that if the roles had been exchanged (me (=white person) insulting the guy (=black person)), I would probably have been imprisoned for a week and made the headlines.

Sadly, the guy who has written this email has a point (in France at least) - and trust me, I would love to say that he's wrong. 

Smile-holland also made an interesting point when he said that you should be proud of your country and not of the colour of your skin. I agree, but when this black person (who was French) says that he f*cks France, isn't there something wrong with it? (it's worth noting that he systematically associates "French" with "white")

And a last point: I'm against these "black TV channels" (and I'd be against a "white channel" if there was one); this is a form of bad "clannishness" ("communautarism"? not sure of the word) or "passive racism". People who watch these channels probably tend to stay within their "colour community"...These channels should be replaced with "anti-racist" channels, whose aim would be to "federate" people.

I'm sure I'll have many things to add to this interesting thread. I'm looking forward to some insightful discussion about this subject too! 

[Jason]

I've been accused of being a racist by several people for a certain belief I hold. Basically, to use my own nationality as an example, there's a difference between Italians and greaseballs/dagos/guineas. I know very well that not all members of a particular race, nationality, religion, or country are bad people.

I don't "think" it's a racist belief, but if anyone here disagrees...

Of course, I'll never understand why black people go around calling each other "nigga" but when white people or anyone else calls them that, it's racism. You don't see Mexicans calling themselves anything other than "mexicano", and white people certainly don't call each other "cracka" as a term of endearment.

As far as National Socialism and their idea of "subhumans" go, you'll find the scum of humanity in all races, religions, nationalities, and countries. Period. End of story.

We're all humans, we all suck equally, we all rule equally.

[the captain]

My paternal grandparents, who were the children of Danish and Swedish immigrants, said that when they were growing up in central and northern Minnesota, there was a much less diverse population...but that Swedes were often "racist" against Norwegians or Danes, and vice versa. (I don't know if they're really different races, ethnically, so I used quotes...) I think that regardless of who is in contact with one another, people always identify and exaggerate differences. You can't be part of a "we" unless there's a "them." It's a shame, but I think it's very true.

Regarding "black" TV channels...it doesn't bother me. I think BET and similar channels are perfectly fine. First of all, you need to remember that--especially when BET first started--the issue was that there was no programming that catered to a black audience. To say there is no "WET" would be stupid--all the other channels were "WET." It was a business move to fill a huge void that (generally white-owned) media didn't fill. Black people spend money just like everyone else, and in the intervening years,  people began to realize that and market hip hop, which was a product of the black community.

In truth, I tend not to think of it as channels for a race as much as channels for subcultures--and cable is full of such examples. Lifetime is for women, as is Oxygen. There are channels for right-wing politicos and liberals. There are channels for foodies. There are channels for film-loving hipsters. There are channels for sports fans. There are channels for NASCAR lovers. I believe that something like BET is no more harmful than any of those. It markets certain ideas, fashions, music...a subculture, basically. America (and the world) is full of them. There is nothing exclusive or hateful about it. It's just a choice out there.

Last point, regarding the use of generally derogatory terms by people in those communities. (i.e., the N-word). I can't say I 100% understand the idea, but considering I'm not any minority (I'm white, straight, male and of no readily visible religion), I don't have to. I know that I have gay friends who use derogatory terms about homosexuality all the time with each other and around me. I've got Jewish friends who do the same about terms usually applied negatively to them. Between my friends and I, we all have a little fun with each other, and sometimes with what would be considered off-color humor that hits those topics. A friends, it isn't an issue, and I know I am very careful not to go overboard, even with them.

If they choose to use those words (by the way, most of my black friends don't use the N-word, even among themselves--they find it unnecessary), fine. I don't think it is appropriate, and I don't use them. What it comes down to, I think, is that I don't HAVE to understand it. It doesn't hurt me. I'm not missing out somehow on being able to use all these GREAT RACIAL SLURS, you know? Big deal. I can understand why it is harmful when said maliciously. I understand that even if not said maliciously, it can be perceived as malicious, and thus harmful. So better safe than sorry, you know?

[mikee]

The thing about this email that pisses me off is that it came from a VERY close companion of mine, a friend of over ten years.

I think you should check with your friend to see if he really sent this.  To me it looks suspiciously like something sent by a virus, that may have infected your friend's computer.  It is quite possible that this message was sent out to everyone in his address book without his knowledge. This sort of thing  can happen without any record of it in his sent box.