Carl Wilson 81

[the captain]

If someone didn't sound as good as 30 years earlier, than work hard, so he sounds good enough again. Making music is the best job in the world, especially if you are as succesful as the Beach Boys, but that doesn't mean that you can rest on your legacy and don't have to work anymore imo.

A couple comments, one on each sentence I quoted above.

1) I think it is nature that overtakes hard work in the "sounds good" department. At a certain time--and the Beach Boys were reaching that point even in the mid-90s--a person is simply going to lose some vocal abillity. The voice changes, wears, people lose range, etc. It's just a fact, and all the hard work in the world wouldn't have prevented it. Sure, cigs, drugs, booze, partying hurt, and sure, hard work and practice help. But even Al and Mike have lost quite a bit (with Al keeping more than the others), and they were widely regarded as the clean-loving guys.

2) I think the Beach Boys have been proof that you can rest on your legacy. It might be disappointing to certain kinds of fans, but it is true. (NOTE: I only mean that in terms of remaining a creative force. Obviously, there is a certain amount of hard work that goes in to touring the country and playing hundreds of shows a year. It is just that those shows stopped being progressive a long time ago.)

[Rocker]

If someone didn't sound as good as 30 years earlier, than work hard, so he sounds good enough again. Making music is the best job in the world, especially if you are as succesful as the Beach Boys, but that doesn't mean that you can rest on your legacy and don't have to work anymore imo.

A couple comments, one on each sentence I quoted above.

1) I think it is nature that overtakes hard work in the "sounds good" department. At a certain time--and the Beach Boys were reaching that point even in the mid-90s--a person is simply going to lose some vocal abillity. The voice changes, wears, people lose range, etc. It's just a fact, and all the hard work in the world wouldn't have prevented it. Sure, cigs, drugs, booze, partying hurt, and sure, hard work and practice help. But even Al and Mike have lost quite a bit (with Al keeping more than the others), and they were widely regarded as the clean-loving guys.

2) I think the Beach Boys have been proof that you can rest on your legacy. It might be disappointing to certain kinds of fans, but it is true. (NOTE: I only mean that in terms of remaining a creative force. Obviously, there is a certain amount of hard work that goes in to touring the country and playing hundreds of shows a year. It is just that those shows stopped being progressive a long time ago.)

To 1) : I didn't say that they would've sounded exactly like in the 60s if they had worked on their voices (and I was mostly talking about Brian, because Carl and Al were still great in the 90s). I just meant that they or Brian could've worked on the voice (hear how good he sounds today) so that it was good enough to sing on such a tour. He made it today, why shouldn't he done it 11 years earlier? Even if they had to play the songs in a different key, but to say one's voice isn't good enough won't do it for me.

To 2) I don't think the Beach Boys showed that. Look at how many people take them serious as important artists. They're dead as artists (and music, after all, is an art and not a business imo). Most people laugh at them because they don't think they ever could have done something great. Only "insiders" really know how great they were. The Beach Boys showed, imo, that the $ really is more worth to them than the quality of their music, and therefor I lost respect for them in later years. And if Carl was really the one stopping a "Pet Sounds"-tour in '96 then I can't say how disappointed I am. They get millions of dollars and imo could get off their ass and do something for the "real" fans. All they did (and Mike&Bruce still do now) is for the general public which has a certain view of the BBs as a surf-and car-band.


I can understand your opinion from a certain point of view but my thoughts go in a different direction I guess.
I hope you could understand hat I was saying, I have problems to express my opinion in english.

[the captain]

I think I understand where you're coming from, and only disagreed. Personally, I have no problem disagreeing and have no hard feelings. As for expressing yourself in English, I'd say you do well.

By the way, while I agree that music is an art, sadly it is a business, too. At least, for any of us to hear it (other than when we play for ourselves, our friends and our families), it has to be one. There has to be money for people to make a living, and then everything escalates. I wish that weren't so, but it is.

Anyway, that's another entire topic.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Well it is in the Catch a Wave book and Melinda seems to be the soruce so it may be not the way it really went down, but Carl thought Brian would not be able to vocally sound professinal enough to do the songs justice.

Which is poppycock! By that point, no one in the BB could sing like Brian used to so they had Matt Jardine doing Brian's vocals. And before Matt, Adrian Baker, Jeff Foskett, etc.  A BB PS tour could have happened, but  it would have taken work - work that perhaps Carl wasn't interested in doing.  Saying that "Brian wouldn't be up to snuff" sounds like a red herring to me.

I think the part that Brian "would not be able to vocally sound professional enough to do the songs justice" has to do with the LEAD vocals, not the backing vocals which Matt Jardine, Jeff Foskett, and Adrian Baker supplied. In that scenario, I would agree with whoever, if anybody, made that assertion.

In 1996, it might've been a disaster. At that time, right or wrong, the guys in the group probably didn't think Brian had the capability, or at the very least, the stamina to pull it off. Keep in mind that most of the lead vocals on Pet Sounds are Brian's. It would've been a load. And if you're gonna share them, what's the point?

This was right after Brian got married, so Melinda hadn't yet been able to have her positive effects on Brian's health, both mentally and physically. I mean that seriously. The new medication, therapy, and "emotional support" needed some time to kick in. The Brian in 1996 was still a long way away from the Brian of BWPS in 2004.

Also, Brian didn't have the Darian/Jeff band. This is not a knock against The Beach Boys, but were they sophisticated and creative and saavy enough to do with Brian what his new(er) band did? Did The Beach Boys consider things like teleprompters, shadowing/doubling Brian's leads, multiple instruments, and multiple background singers like Brian's new band? And, even though the guys in The Beach Boys literally grew up with Brian, did they really know how to DEAL with him in the manner of a Darian or Jeff - or Melinda? Brian's relationships with the guys in The Beach Boys was so disfunctional, even with Carl. For Brian to do with The Beach Boys in 1996 what he does now, well, so much would've had to CHANGE and I just don't think they had the foresight.

[MBE]

Rocker I love what you had to say and agree. Money shouldn't have been an issue to the band after the mid seventies. They just didn't know how to save it. In The U.S.A.  the Beach Boys are respected overall, it was much worse in the 80s when they were doing shows like Full House. Even Mike and Bruce do a more creative show now at least sometimes. I am going to see them Saturday and I never thought I would. Why? Because they are going to be backed by a full orchestra and that means it won't be a jukebox type of show. I don't really hear people think of them as just a surf band anymore thanks to how famous Smile and Pet Sounds now are. I just wish Kokomo would self destruct because here it is heard all the darn tiime and is in my eyes one of their worst records.

Back to the topic. If Brian and Dennis had wrecked their voices by 1975 and Mike began to poorly ape his young sound at the same time, the others voices didn't loose any range until they reached their 40s. Yet they still could sound more then presentable as the Don Was and yes even the S&S backing proves. Brian is included as the wonderful performances on some of those Paley demos is quite a revelation. Funny on OCA and the documentary soundtrack he sounded pretty average, so I think it is telling that from 1975 he could sing competently when he felt like it. Even Mike and Bruce have done some shows in the last five years that are far better then we ever expected of them. Which leads me back to my original point that Carl should have stood up to the group and not come back until they were all ready to do work that they could be proud of.

[Wilsonista]

Well it is in the Catch a Wave book and Melinda seems to be the soruce so it may be not the way it really went down, but Carl thought Brian would not be able to vocally sound professinal enough to do the songs justice.

Which is poppycock! By that point, no one in the BB could sing like Brian used to so they had Matt Jardine doing Brian's vocals. And before Matt, Adrian Baker, Jeff Foskett, etc.  A BB PS tour could have happened, but  it would have taken work - work that perhaps Carl wasn't interested in doing.  Saying that "Brian wouldn't be up to snuff" sounds like a red herring to me.

I think the part that Brian "would not be able to vocally sound professional enough to do the songs justice" has to do with the LEAD vocals, not the backing vocals which Matt Jardine, Jeff Foskett, and Adrian Baker supplied. In that scenario, I would agree with whoever, if anybody, made that assertion.

In 1996, it might've been a disaster. At that time, right or wrong, the guys in the group probably didn't think Brian had the capability, or at the very least, the stamina to pull it off. Keep in mind that most of the lead vocals on Pet Sounds are Brian's. It would've been a load. And if you're gonna share them, what's the point?

This was right after Brian got married, so Melinda hadn't yet been able to have her positive effects on Brian's health, both mentally and physically. I mean that seriously. The new medication, therapy, and "emotional support" needed some time to kick in. The Brian in 1996 was still a long way away from the Brian of BWPS in 2004.

Also, Brian didn't have the Darian/Jeff band. This is not a knock against The Beach Boys, but were they sophisticated and creative and saavy enough to do with Brian what his new(er) band did? Did The Beach Boys consider things like teleprompters, shadowing/doubling Brian's leads, multiple instruments, and multiple background singers like Brian's new band? And, even though the guys in The Beach Boys literally grew up with Brian, did they really know how to DEAL with him in the manner of a Darian or Jeff - or Melinda? Brian's relationships with the guys in The Beach Boys was so disfunctional, even with Carl. For Brian to do with The Beach Boys in 1996 what he does now, well, so much would've had to CHANGE and I just don't think they had the foresight.

1. First of all, Baker, Foskett and MJ all sang lead vocals in the BB band. Secondly, as much of a Brianista I am, I don't think it would have been neccesary for him to shoulder the lead vocal load on a live PS in '96 save for the easier songs.  Maybe a BB performance of the album would have reclaimed  Pet Sounds as a BB album in the minds of fans.

[Sheriff John Stone]

1. First of all, Baker, Foskett and MJ all sang lead vocals in the BB band. Secondly, as much of a Brianista I am, I don't think it would have been neccesary for him to shoulder the lead vocal load on a live PS in '96 save for the easier songs.  Maybe a BB performance of the album would have reclaimed  Pet Sounds as a BB album in the minds of fans.

RobMac,
     Adrian Baker, Jeff Foskett, and Matt Jardine sang, at the most, one, maybe two leads per show. There was the occasional "Don't Worry Baby", "Warmth Of The Sun", or a "Little GTO", but their contribution singing Brian's leads was negligible. Those were usually handled by Carl or Al.

Your point about reclaiming Pet Sounds as a BB album in the minds of the fans? Maybe Carl knew that would be misleading. With the possible exception of Love You, isn't Pet Sounds the closest Beach Boy album we have to a Brian Wilson SOLO ALBUM? That's one of the main reasons he was able to do the entire album in his solo career/tour. Most of the leads were his...

[tpesky]

I thought they did a wonderful job this past fall working Al in on the parts he sang. For example, the parts where its Brian doubling himself or layered, Al sounded awesome with him. I am thinking about the tag on Wasn't Made for These Times. It could have been done