Carl Wilson 81

[mikeyj]

I own the vinyl for Carl's first album and I have no idea who "J.W.G." is, does anyone know?

[Andrew G. Doe]

James William Guercio.

[mikeyj]

James William Guercio.

Thanks Andrew I never knew that he played an instrument, I always just thought of him as a producer.

[the captain]

I never knew that he played an instrument, I always just thought of him as a producer.

Considering what producers do, I dont' think I'd trust one who didn't...and preferably who didn't play several.

[Rocker]

James William Guercio.

Thanks Andrew I never knew that he played an instrument, I always just thought of him as a producer.

I think he was also in the Beach Boys' backing band in the mid-70s and played bass I believe.

[mikeyj]

I never knew that he played an instrument, I always just thought of him as a producer.

Considering what producers do, I dont' think I'd trust one who didn't...and preferably who didn't play several.

I didnt mean that I thought he couldnt play an instrument at all, I just didnt know that he was a good enough bass player/percussionist.

[the captain]

I didnt mean that I thought he couldnt play an instrument at all, I just didnt know that he was a good enough bass player/percussionist.

Gotcha.

On a VERY bizarre aside, I had a dream about this thread last night! I dreamed that someone said, "What about 'STE,' I heard he couldn't so much as play air guitar and yet he produced Queen's best albums!"

Of course, in my dream, I noticed the poster was wrong, as Queen's producer was Roy Thomas Baker, or RTB, if you must abbreviate--my dream-self determined the poster meant Stephen Thomas Erlewine, reviewer for Allmusic.com. And I have NO IDEA whether Roy Thomas Baker could play any instruments. But I couldn't decide whether to respond to that poster. Weird, weird dream...

[mikeyj]

I didnt mean that I thought he couldnt play an instrument at all, I just didnt know that he was a good enough bass player/percussionist.

Gotcha.

On a VERY bizarre aside, I had a dream about this thread last night! I dreamed that someone said, "What about 'STE,' I heard he couldn't so much as play air guitar and yet he produced Queen's best albums!"

Of course, in my dream, I noticed the poster was wrong, as Queen's producer was Roy Thomas Baker, or RTB, if you must abbreviate--my dream-self determined the poster meant Stephen Thomas Erlewine, reviewer for Allmusic.com. And I have NO IDEA whether Roy Thomas Baker could play any instruments. But I couldn't decide whether to respond to that poster. Weird, weird dream...

Yes, that is very very weird, how did your brain come up with all that?

[the captain]

Easy: my brain is messed up.

[MBE]

Here is a question. If Carl was mad enough to leave the Beach Boys why did he come back? Surely money can't be the only reason. I would have to think because Dennis and Brian got worse then ever right after he left.

[mikeyj]

Here is a question. If Carl was mad enough to leave the Beach Boys why did he come back? Surely money can't be the only reason. I would have to think because Dennis and Brian got worse then ever right after he left.

I have no idea, but thats a very interesting question. Poor Carl, that would've been pretty tough having two brothers and seeing them turn into drug addicts etc.. Why did Brian/Dennis ever have to do drugs. I wish Brian still had his old voice. I mean Carl's voice was still pretty much intact by the time he died. I think thats one of the saddest pieces of footage of the boys, Dennis explaining how much of an honour it was being a Beach Boys and then trying to sing You Are So Beautiful and only managing about 10 words or so and then just slowly walking back to his position, it annoys me that straight after they start playing Barbara Ann (or something - I cant remember) and just pretend there's nothing wrong (not mentioning any names  ) Sorry to go a bit off topic there...

[Emdeeh]

If Carl was mad enough to leave the Beach Boys why did he come back?

Although Carl left the band for a while, he said all along he was still a Beach Boy. In other words, he went on strike against his own band, bargaining his return for certain conditions to be met. I would think that those conditions were met, for a while at least. Clearly they didn't stay away from the Vegas/resort circuit for long, but they did start rehearsing again and they did put out a new album.


   

[Sheriff John Stone]

Here is a question. If Carl was mad enough to leave the Beach Boys why did he come back? Surely money can't be the only reason.

1. Money - he was still a young man
2. Fame - praise, love and adoration, standing ovations.
3. Optimism - I always believed that Carl hung in there because he hoped (believed?) that Brian would (maybe?) come back and do some great things in the band.

[MBE]

All good replies, I know he didn't legally leave but still I keep thinking when did the Beach Boys stop working as a unit? As early as 1963 Brian was removing himself from things.  Brian held Dennis and Carl back when he did 15 Big Ones, Carl was against a Pet Sounds tour in 1996 and also walked out on the Don Was sessions. It wasn't just Love dilluting  the others creative juices, but everyone did their part as far as forcing others to go against their better judgement. There was  a point (I hold stedfeast to 1973) where it would have been in everyone's creative interest to breakup. Fiscally things prevented that from happening. Would Brian still have his voice, would Dennis and Carl be here? Who knows? What did happen was fated to be.

[Rocker]

Carl was against a Pet Sounds tour in 1996 and also walked out on the Don Was sessions.

I know about the Was-sessions, but am hearing for the first time (that I can remember) about a '96-Pet Sounds-tour. Anyone could give more insight?
Bruce already talked in the early 90s about such a tour iIrc.

[MBE]

Well it is in the Catch a Wave book and Melinda seems to be the soruce so it may be not the way it really went down, but Carl thought Brian would not be able to vocally sound professinal enough to do the songs justice.

[Rocker]

Well it is in the Catch a Wave book and Melinda seems to be the soruce so it may be not the way it really went down, but Carl thought Brian would not be able to vocally sound professinal enough to do the songs justice.

Damn, I have that book (and love it). I probably have to go through it a second time.
But now you mention it, I rememebr that "Brian's vocals"-part. If it really was this way, it's sad, because it would've been good promotion for the boxset and the last great concerts were already 3 years behind. I kinda doubt that Carl really was against this, but who knows...

[No. Fourteen]

There was  a point (I hold stedfeast to 1973) where it would have been in everyone's creative interest to breakup.

Wow, that's a pretty surreal thought.  Imagine the Beach Boys recording career ending with that round at the close of Funky Pretty.  Or - even more so - Mount Vernon and Fairway!   A few Wilson Brothers albums in the years that followed?  Yeah!

[Wilsonista]

Well it is in the Catch a Wave book and Melinda seems to be the soruce so it may be not the way it really went down, but Carl thought Brian would not be able to vocally sound professinal enough to do the songs justice.

Which is poppycock! By that point, no one in the BB could sing like Brian used to so they had Matt Jardine doing Brian's vocals. And before Matt, Adrian Baker, Jeff Foskett, etc.  A BB PS tour could have happened, but  it would have taken work - work that perhaps Carl wasn't interested in doing.  Saying that "Brian wouldn't be up to snuff" sounds like a red herring to me.

[tpesky]

Al Jardine claimed he had to fight just to get Sail on Sailor in the set in the mid 90s so I can only imagine the opposition Pet Sounds would have drawn. With the proper backing muscians, they could have pulled it off. The leads Brian and Al turned in at the East Coast concerts this fall which would have been 10 years later prove that.

[Wilsonista]

Remarkably, it was Carl who vetoed the PS tour (according to Carlin). If MIKE was willing to work  on a PS tour!!!

[southbay]

I think we can all sit here and give fairly good educated guesses as to why certain things did not happen, such as the '96 PS tour or the Don Was sessions.  We all have a certain amount of information and knoweledge at our fingertips.  HOWEVER, it is still limited.  We cannot possibly fathom the what those relationships between Brian, Carl, Mike, Al were really like  underneath it all. It was not as simple as someone saying, " Hey, I want to go out and do a tour full of Pet Sounds material to promote the box set, let's go", or "Although we haven't done an album together in 10 years and I just left my therapist due to your lawsuit, etc, let's make a new album produced by Don Was. "  These things sound great to us in the abstract, but to those guys in those relationships with all kinds of crap behind them that we will never know, it just couldn't happen.   As for Carl putting the kibosh on the PS tour, MY EDUCATED GUESS is that it was possible, although I doubt it was as simple as "Brian's voice isn't good enough anymore" (But rememeber, as we sit here today and hear Brian live, do we forget how MUCH BETTER he is now than when he started this whole venture in 2000?  If Carl had thought that then, would he really have been wrong? Would we have thought the same thing then?)   For instance, I rememeber hearing Al Jardine say that Carl was against the 1993 acoustic tour because he thought Al, Mike and himself weren't good enough to pull those songs off anymore.  Al said that at the time he disagreed with Carl, but that when he later teamed with his kids and Carnie and Wendy, heard all of the young voices singing the songs, he realized Carl was right. (I believe this was from an ESQ interview). I am still not sure I agree with either of them, to me when Carl, Al, Brian and Mike sing together it is the sound of Heaven. But, if Carl simply did not think his group could sing well enough anymore to pull off the more challenging material, I think we have to defer to his judgment and just think about what could have been.

[MBE]

I think we can not blame anyone completely for what happened after 1973 and especally after 1983. No one is faultless either. Simply they ceased to function as a working band. Once they began to talk through their personal managers, lawyers, and flunkies, they did not have any means of working their problems out in a simple manner. The support they had given each other was gone, they all had let the band down at one time or another and weren't forgiving each other so quickly. What gets me though is that they manage to do a country tribute album to themselves that is such a horrible waste of our time and their time. They are ALL at fault for dropping the ball there, and the 1993 tour and the Was sessions shows they could have blown our minds. Very sad and we don't know who did what. Melinda is again not someone I trust to give Carl a fair shake, but once he came back in 82 he was just as guilty for letting the decline happen as any of them..

[southbay]

Agreed, MBE.  Except, I would add that in addition to being a waste of time S&S just rips my heart out because if you can get beyond the schlock, the actual BGV's of the Boys on The warmth of the Sun, Caroline, No, Don't Worry Baby show just how great they could still sound together, circa 1995. For whatvever reason, they chose not to share that with us in any meaningful way. 

[Rocker]

I agree that the guys probably had more problems than many of us will ever have, but still they are/were professionals and had work to do. If someone didn't sound as good as 30 years earlier, than work hard, so he sounds good enough again. Making music is the best job in the world, especially if you are as succesful as the Beach Boys, but that doesn't mean that you can rest on your legacy and don't have to work anymore imo.