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Poll
Question: Who is your favourite Beach Boy
Brian Wilson
Carl Wilson
Dennis Wilson
Al Jardine
Mike Love
Bruce Johnston
Other

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Author Topic: Favourite BB?  (Read 12898 times)
the captain
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« Reply #50 on: March 19, 2007, 01:07:26 PM »


DD said that Dennis gave him WAY too much credit for what he did. He said all he really did was get Dennis' ideas down in a proper manner. At least as far as songwriting went and production.

Do you happen to know where DD said that? I am curious to know more about who arranged what for everyone in the BBs, actually. I think it is safe to say none of them--Brian included, based on what I have heard various Wrecking Crew personnel say--was what you'd call accomplished in terms of writing out arrangements properly so that session players could play off them. But it also seems pretty safe to say Brian did at least have some ability to read and write music, and could get his ideas for specific arrangements across.

I have no doubt Dennis' songs were his own, not Dragon's, and that Dennis had specific ideas regarding production. But in terms of the actual arrangements--that is, the orchestration--it has been my understanding that Dragon or others did that for Dennis. My guesses on that would mean that where Dennis said things like "I want big walls of strings over this," Dragon would say "oh, ok...first violins hold this third over the top, second violins glissando from fifth to root below that, violas..." etc. I mean, really arrange it. And some of the string parts on Dennis' songs sound "correct," meaning they follow traditional rules. That also makes me think Dragon did them. But I'd be interested to know if that weren't the case.

(By the way, to be clear, I mean no disrespect to Dennis anyway. Plenty of great rock musicians didn't / don't arrange all their own music, including Brian on BWPS, where he had help from Mertens, or the Beatles, who had help from George Martin.)
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« Reply #51 on: March 19, 2007, 02:57:06 PM »


DD said that Dennis gave him WAY too much credit for what he did. He said all he really did was get Dennis' ideas down in a proper manner. At least as far as songwriting went and production.

Do you happen to know where DD said that? I am curious to know more about who arranged what for everyone in the BBs, actually. I think it is safe to say none of them--Brian included, based on what I have heard various Wrecking Crew personnel say--was what you'd call accomplished in terms of writing out arrangements properly so that session players could play off them. But it also seems pretty safe to say Brian did at least have some ability to read and write music, and could get his ideas for specific arrangements across.

I have no doubt Dennis' songs were his own, not Dragon's, and that Dennis had specific ideas regarding production. But in terms of the actual arrangements--that is, the orchestration--it has been my understanding that Dragon or others did that for Dennis. My guesses on that would mean that where Dennis said things like "I want big walls of strings over this," Dragon would say "oh, ok...first violins hold this third over the top, second violins glissando from fifth to root below that, violas..." etc. I mean, really arrange it. And some of the string parts on Dennis' songs sound "correct," meaning they follow traditional rules. That also makes me think Dragon did them. But I'd be interested to know if that weren't the case.

(By the way, to be clear, I mean no disrespect to Dennis anyway. Plenty of great rock musicians didn't / don't arrange all their own music, including Brian on BWPS, where he had help from Mertens, or the Beatles, who had help from George Martin.)

In an interview with Adam Webb:

Adam Webb: "Do you think that Dennis lacked confidence in his talent?"

Daryl Dragon: "He had no confidence in his own talent and I helped him with that. I know that his wife Barbara really liked his music and she knew that I believed in him. I spent lots of time working with him and he was really nice to give me a cut of some of those songs. You know, I'd think of one word - it was like Gregg Jakobson, he'd think of a single word and then Dennis would give him part of the writer's [credit]. A joke."
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 02:58:29 PM by mikeyj » Logged
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« Reply #52 on: March 19, 2007, 11:23:04 PM »

The Adam Webb interview plus my own interview with Dragon (which will come out in something I am working on) is how I found out. Dennis knew arranging as far as knowing what he wanted as far as specific instruments or layering.  Dragon would often make that relatable to the musicians themselves.
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« Reply #53 on: July 26, 2012, 09:17:35 AM »

It has to be Brian..though Mike love is a close 2nd..then it's Dennis
Brian is the type of person you just want around you all the time..very soft spoken,kind,strange sense of humor,sensitive..and on top of that he's a musical genius..
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« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2012, 09:31:55 AM »

Al is my favorite BB. He's a nice, down to earth guy, whose voice I absolutely love. Second favorite would have to be Brian, just because he's the creative force behind a lot of the Beach Boy's success, all he's been through, etc. I'm not sure I can rank the others besides Al and Brian.
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« Reply #55 on: July 26, 2012, 10:03:15 AM »

Brian

Dennis & Carl

Al

Blondie/Ricky

David

Mike













Bruce. I'd put Glen Campbell and Murry ahead of Bruce any day, man is Bruce a square useless man...
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« Reply #56 on: July 26, 2012, 10:19:49 AM »

If anyone picks Bruce i hope they're also going to have the balls to explain why!! (Personally I picked Dennis - I like Carl and Brian just as much, but I don't like how Denny is (very unfairly) lagging behind his brothers - he was by some considerable distance the second best songwriter in the band (and between '68-'79 arguably the best). He may not have always been as pleasant to be around as his more laidback brothers, but he was always interesting, always.
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« Reply #57 on: July 26, 2012, 10:35:35 AM »

IMO, Denny is the most misunderstood Beach Boy.  I will come right out and state that he was the second best songwriter in the band (after his elder brother) and that he had a large amount of natural talent that I don't think he even knew he had until he actually started coming through with the goods.  Not a great technical drummer, but a great "feel" drummer.  He also had such an incredible voice...rough around the edges, yet vulnerable...damaged.  I don't know if he was given a fair shake by the band.  We've all heard the stories/rumors of jealousy within the organization over his growing influence and confidence as a songwriter.  Just think about the fact that he had two wonderful (though we've only heard one of them) songs bumped from "Surf's Up".  Then there is the ultimatum over remaining the band's drummer or working on a solo career (again, probably driven by jealousy over the quaility of "Pacific Ocean Blue").  I think the band helped break him down (not that he needed much help)...and I think it's fair to blame Mike for a lot of that.  Towards the end it was clear that Dennis needed some serious help...yet...he was essentially left to his own devices.  Sure, maybe he didn't "want" help...but the guy died a homeless alcoholic.  He deserved a better fate than that...which makes me glad that his musical output has only gained accolades over the years.  Finally, I've always felt that Dennis was the only of band member who ever truly "got" Brian.  There was a connection between those two...you can hear it in Denny's songwriting...which is, at times, out there...but he took chances.  He looked for new sounds.  It's sad that he didn't get the accolades he deserved in life...but it's good that he's getting them now!
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« Reply #58 on: July 26, 2012, 10:53:34 AM »

IMO, Denny is the most misunderstood Beach Boy.  I will come right out and state that he was the second best songwriter in the band (after his elder brother) and that he had a large amount of natural talent that I don't think he even knew he had until he actually started coming through with the goods.  Not a great technical drummer, but a great "feel" drummer.  He also had such an incredible voice...rough around the edges, yet vulnerable...damaged.  I don't know if he was given a fair shake by the band.  We've all heard the stories/rumors of jealousy within the organization over his growing influence and confidence as a songwriter.  Just think about the fact that he had two wonderful (though we've only heard one of them) songs bumped from "Surf's Up".  Then there is the ultimatum over remaining the band's drummer or working on a solo career (again, probably driven by jealousy over the quaility of "Pacific Ocean Blue").  I think the band helped break him down (not that he needed much help)...and I think it's fair to blame Mike for a lot of that.  Towards the end it was clear that Dennis needed some serious help...yet...he was essentially left to his own devices.  Sure, maybe he didn't "want" help...but the guy died a homeless alcoholic.  He deserved a better fate than that...which makes me glad that his musical output has only gained accolades over the years.  Finally, I've always felt that Dennis was the only of band member who ever truly "got" Brian.  There was a connection between those two...you can hear it in Denny's songwriting...which is, at times, out there...but he took chances.  He looked for new sounds.  It's sad that he didn't get the accolades he deserved in life...but it's good that he's getting them now!
wow reading this almost made me shed a tear...beautiful Smiley ..very deep and touching!
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« Reply #59 on: July 26, 2012, 11:23:16 AM »

Carl: THE voice!!! Plus an excellent performer, good guitar player. He came across as sincere and one who honestly enjoyed performing the music. In all the concerts I saw him in, I always felt he gave his best every time. Really enjoyed his "I Can Hear Music" in addition to the standards (GOK; Darlin; et. al.).
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« Reply #60 on: July 26, 2012, 11:43:52 AM »

No doubt...Carl gave his all on stage (except maybe for that horrid Australian tour).  I mean, the guy was dying of cancer...yet he still went out on stage...even if he had to sit on a stool most of the night.  He was the heart of the group.  Dennis was the soul and Brian is the brain.  The rest are just extra pieces.  I considered The Beach Boys dead once Carl passed away...and only consider them "alive" again because "Brian is back..."!  I truly believe you need a Wilson Brother in actively in the band for it to truly be The Beach Boys (sorry Mike).   
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« Reply #61 on: July 26, 2012, 11:51:09 AM »

I'm a Beach Boys fan, first & foremost. I voted Carl as my favorite. He is my favorite vocalist. He was their leader on stage and who had great presence and professionalism. We all know the importance of Brian & Mike as composer and frontman, but Carl was the glue and rock of the band.
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Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
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« Reply #62 on: July 26, 2012, 02:23:37 PM »

Heck, I was all set to vote for BB King.
And that would be a great choice. Would love to hear him sing "Sail on Sailor" or "Got to Know the Woman"  Smiley
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« Reply #63 on: July 26, 2012, 05:03:11 PM »

God I did Dave wrong in my original post. I really am glad I now know how important he is. Also I might be a little easier on them all.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 09:53:18 PM by Mike Eder » Logged
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« Reply #64 on: July 26, 2012, 05:26:44 PM »

IMO, Denny is the most misunderstood Beach Boy.  I will come right out and state that he was the second best songwriter in the band (after his elder brother) and that he had a large amount of natural talent that I don't think he even knew he had until he actually started coming through with the goods.  Not a great technical drummer, but a great "feel" drummer.  He also had such an incredible voice...rough around the edges, yet vulnerable...damaged.  I don't know if he was given a fair shake by the band.  We've all heard the stories/rumors of jealousy within the organization over his growing influence and confidence as a songwriter.  Just think about the fact that he had two wonderful (though we've only heard one of them) songs bumped from "Surf's Up".  Then there is the ultimatum over remaining the band's drummer or working on a solo career (again, probably driven by jealousy over the quaility of "Pacific Ocean Blue").  I think the band helped break him down (not that he needed much help)...and I think it's fair to blame Mike for a lot of that.  Towards the end it was clear that Dennis needed some serious help...yet...he was essentially left to his own devices.  Sure, maybe he didn't "want" help...but the guy died a homeless alcoholic.  He deserved a better fate than that...which makes me glad that his musical output has only gained accolades over the years.  Finally, I've always felt that Dennis was the only of band member who ever truly "got" Brian.  There was a connection between those two...you can hear it in Denny's songwriting...which is, at times, out there...but he took chances.  He looked for new sounds.  It's sad that he didn't get the accolades he deserved in life...but it's good that he's getting them now!

Oh,yeah, it's Mike's fault what happened to Dennis Wilson.  Mike also made Brian mentally ill. I read it in the books.  Mike is the devil.   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #65 on: July 26, 2012, 05:39:47 PM »

Myke Luhv is/was a power hungry SOB and nothing gets in his way-especially Brian Wilson or any other Wilson for that matter.
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« Reply #66 on: July 26, 2012, 05:48:25 PM »

Mike Love is the reason for kokomo ..enough said..(I mean that in a good way)
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« Reply #67 on: July 26, 2012, 06:11:28 PM »

Dennis had enough of his own problems...and I'm not solely laying any blame on Mike...but it's common knowledge that the relationship between the two was rocky at best.  Dennis was the only Beach Boy who could ever stand up to Mike (and knock his a*s out cold on occasion)...and as Denny's personal demons started to really get the better of him in the late 70s/early 80s...I think the organization's concern for his welfare (especially in regards to his cousin) was very neglectful.  Dennis had a sickness.  He needed help...but there was no Doctor Landy waiting in the wings...just another bottle of vodka and a date with the Pacific Ocean.
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« Reply #68 on: July 26, 2012, 06:20:33 PM »

Carl tried to get Dennis help. Dennis would have never accepted the kind of control that Landy placed over Brian. On his own, he never got through a full rehab stint. Andrew?
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Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
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« Reply #69 on: July 26, 2012, 06:24:36 PM »

If anyone picks Bruce i hope they're also going to have the balls to explain why!! (Personally I picked Dennis - I like Carl and Brian just as much, but I don't like how Denny is (very unfairly) lagging behind his brothers - he was by some considerable distance the second best songwriter in the band (and between '68-'79 arguably the best). He may not have always been as pleasant to be around as his more laidback brothers, but he was always interesting, always.

I will explain why, and by favourite, it's just a personal thing, I am not mounting an argument based on some criteria of non-subjective benchmarks or what have you.

First off, I have had more personal interaction with him than any other member of the group.  He has always shown incredible kindness towards me and whomever I was with.  We have shared long conversations, had breakfast, had a Pacifico...and he has always been totally cool to be around.

Secondly, I really think he has been a champion of the band from the beginning.  A loyal soldier, as well, but not afraid to speak his mind.  He is the true conduit from fans to group in my opinion.

Also, I find his musical history fascinating; really as much or more so than anybody else in the band.  Sandy Nelson, Phil Spector, Richie Valens, Terry Melcher, Elton, Manilow, Pink Floyd...

And he surfs, lives in Montecito, and generally carries on the lifestyle associated with the band.


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« Reply #70 on: July 26, 2012, 06:33:19 PM »

Carl tried to get Dennis help. Dennis would have never accepted the kind of control that Landy placed over Brian. On his own, he never got through a full rehab stint. Andrew?

True.  I guess I'm just the kind of person who thinks that there's always hope.
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« Reply #71 on: July 26, 2012, 06:58:02 PM »

Originally, Carl.
Then Mike, for years.
Now, Dave.
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« Reply #72 on: July 26, 2012, 08:38:35 PM »

Look at all the people who go on that Dr. Drew show and are never helped in spite of help.  If Dr. Drew couldn't help Jeff Conaway from "Taxi," could anyone have helped Dennis?
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« Reply #73 on: July 26, 2012, 10:54:08 PM »

Carl tried to get Dennis help. Dennis would have never accepted the kind of control that Landy placed over Brian. On his own, he never got through a full rehab stint. Andrew?

I believe the longest he lasted was two, three days. There was a plan in place for Dennis to be treated by Landy... to commence after New Year 1984.
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« Reply #74 on: July 26, 2012, 11:30:24 PM »

Which begs the question, were the events of December 28th a blessing or curse?
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