Ballads/Slow Songs: BB vs. Beatles

[punkinhead]

Who's what better?

We've got a ton from Brian earlier on:
-Surfer Girl
-Lonely Sea
-Keep an Eye on Summer
-Don't Worry Baby/Warmth of the Sun (two of the best)
-kiss me baby/please let me wonder (amazing)

Beatles' early slow songs (to me) there arent as many:
-This Boy
-And I love Her
-If I fell
-I'll Follow the Sun
-Hide Your love away
-yesterday (competes with Surfer Girl or DWB)
-Here there and Everywhere
-Michelle
-For No One

But dang...I think BB really beat them with pet sounds....overall

[the captain]

Both bands had some great ballads--and not just the early ones. Especially McCartney and Harrison provided some gorgeous melodies and arrangements. But to me, Brian Wilson is the master of the pop ballad, and of course Dennis had his share in the 70s, as well. So I give the Beach Boys the edge.

[MBE]

I am a bigger Beach Boys fan but the Beatles WERE great. I hate how people go way over the top for them because the Beach Boys and others did have more to offer, yet so few people have matched what the Beatles did that I have to say that while I give Brian and co. the edge, both are hard to beat.

[Shady]

Two of my personal favorites are 'There's No Other (Like My Baby)' and 'We'll Run Away', so them plus the songs in the orginal post are enough to choose the beach boys for me. But the beatles are masters to.

[Ebb and Flow]

"Michelle" and "For No One" are probably the ones that compete the most for me.  They both have sort of a baroque "art song" quality to them that's very different than the typical ballad.

As for top BB ballads, any list is missing without "Your Summer Dream".

[mikeyj]

As for top BB ballads, any list is missing without "Your Summer Dream".

Exactly what I was thinking, I absolutely LOVE that song, I think it can be overlooked by a lot of fans, but definately one of the prettiest songs Brian ever wrote. But yeh I would also say The Beach Boys are better at Ballads, Brian was a master of them back in the day, I think they just have a certain emotional quality that very few can compete with.

[SloopJohnB]

Brian really was the master of pop ballads at the time. I agree with "Your Summer Dream"; it's often overlooked, even by real fans, but I love it.

That said, the Beatles were great at making ballads too. I'd like to add "In My Life" to your list though!

[Sheriff John Stone]

I suppose we could list all of each band's ballads, line 'em up, and debate the merits of each. And that's sometimes fun to do.

But when I try to decide/vote on the merits of The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles (which I occasionally do), in the areas of songs, albums, musicianship, vocals, etc. - The Beach Boys usually lose in almost every category, but ultimately win out as my favorite group - because of one thing.

It's because of that "thing" that Brian has/had that he put into his songs. It's that magical quality that touches you. It touches you like no other artist or song does. And it's especially present in The Beach Boys ballads. So my vote goes to The Beach Boys.

[mikeyj]

I suppose we could list all of each band's ballads, line 'em up, and debate the merits of each. And that's sometimes fun to do.

But when I try to decide/vote on the merits of The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles (which I occasionally do), in the areas of songs, albums, musicianship, vocals, etc. - The Beach Boys usually lose in almost every category, but ultimately win out as my favorite group - because of one thing.

It's because of that "thing" that Brian has/had that he put into his songs. It's that magical quality that touches you. It touches you like no other artist or song does. And it's especially present in The Beach Boys ballads. So my vote goes to The Beach Boys.

Hey spot on! Thats what Ive always thought. I disagree to a degree, because I think The Beach Boys win in some categories (for me anyway) but yeh I totally agree with Brian's songs touching you in that special way, that you just can't explain, thats what I was talking about when I said that they have that "emotional quality that very few can compete with". It must be the voices, but I also have always believed Brian's songs (not ALL of them) but songs like 'Til I Die, In My Room, Pet Sounds etc.. just seem that extra bit 'real' (if you get what I mean) compared the Beatles, not saying that The Beatles dont have that in some of their songs too, just that Brian has it in his songs more often. I also think Dennis had that 'real' quality in his songs too.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Good post, mikeyj! Hey, there's about a foot of snow outside that I don't want to shovel, and if punkinhead doesn't mind, I'd like to go slightly off-topic. Just slightly.

Thought I'd explore that Beach Boys vs. Beatles comparison a little more. Do a lot of you compare the two groups? It is so subjective of people's opinions. This is mine:

SONGS: If I go Top 10, The Beach Boys win. If I go 25-28 songs, or about the amount to fill one "greatest hits" CD, The Beach Boys win. If I do a double CD, the perfect amount to give a prospective fan, 35-37 songs, The Beach Boys barely win. But once I get to about the Top 50, The Beatles come on strong, or, should I say, The Beach Boys start to thin out a little bit. If I fill 3 CD's, well...

ALBUMS: From 1962-1966, it's very close. But in my opinion, the big four of All Summer Long/Today/Summer Days & Summer Nights/Pet Sounds barely edges A Hard Day's Night/Help/Rubber Soul/Revolver. Just barely. I know that's very, very subjective; it's just my opinion. However, after 1967, I think that The Beatles run the table. I think the series from Sgt. Pepper's to Let It Be outshines the Beach Boys series of Smiley Smile to Holland.

MUSICIANSHIP: I think Paul was a better bassist and piano player than Brian. Ringo was a better drummer than Dennis. John was a better guitarist than Al. And George and Carl are about even as lead guitarists.

VOCALS: The Beach Boys win this one, but it's not that overwhelming. John and Paul were so damn great, but we're talking about Brian and Carl Wilson, and, yes, Mike Love. Mike was one of the greatest lead singers in rock & roll. You can add George and Ringo, but the Beach Boys can counter with Al. And then, of course, there's the harmonies. Advantage Beach Boys.

I know it's debatable, because there are so many fans of The Beach Boys 1967-73 period. But I don't know if that feeling is universal. The Beatles, on the other hand, released Sgt. Pepper's, The White Album, and Abbey Road. So you'd think I would prefer The Beatles over The Beach Boys. Nope. As I mentioned in my above post, the "something" that Brian Wilson added to his music trumps a lot of the other factors. It's an intangible, but you can feel it. And that's why I prefer The Beach Boys. What do you guys think?

[punkinhead]

that was a great post...i enjoy your thinning out comment, totally agreed

[mikeyj]

Good post, mikeyj! Hey, there's about a foot of snow outside that I don't want to shovel, and if punkinhead doesn't mind, I'd like to go slightly off-topic. Just slightly.

Thought I'd explore that Beach Boys vs. Beatles comparison a little more. Do a lot of you compare the two groups? It is so subjective of people's opinions. This is mine:

SONGS: If I go Top 10, The Beach Boys win. If I go 25-28 songs, or about the amount to fill one "greatest hits" CD, The Beach Boys win. If I do a double CD, the perfect amount to give a prospective fan, 35-37 songs, The Beach Boys barely win. But once I get to about the Top 50, The Beatles come on strong, or, should I say, The Beach Boys start to thin out a little bit. If I fill 3 CD's, well...

ALBUMS: From 1962-1966, it's very close. But in my opinion, the big four of All Summer Long/Today/Summer Days & Summer Nights/Pet Sounds barely edges A Hard Day's Night/Help/Rubber Soul/Revolver. Just barely. I know that's very, very subjective; it's just my opinion. However, after 1967, I think that The Beatles run the table. I think the series from Sgt. Pepper's to Let It Be outshines the Beach Boys series of Smiley Smile to Holland.

MUSICIANSHIP: I think Paul was a better bassist and piano player than Brian. Ringo was a better drummer than Dennis. John was a better guitarist than Al. And George and Carl are about even as lead guitarists.

VOCALS: The Beach Boys win this one, but it's not that overwhelming. John and Paul were so damn great, but we're talking about Brian and Carl Wilson, and, yes, Mike Love. Mike was one of the greatest lead singers in rock & roll. You can add George and Ringo, but the Beach Boys can counter with Al. And then, of course, there's the harmonies. Advantage Beach Boys.

I know it's debatable, because there are so many fans of The Beach Boys 1967-73 period. But I don't know if that feeling is universal. The Beatles, on the other hand, released Sgt. Pepper's, The White Album, and Abbey Road. So you'd think I would prefer The Beatles over The Beach Boys. Nope. As I mentioned in my above post, the "something" that Brian Wilson added to his music trumps a lot of the other factors. It's an intangible, but you can feel it. And that's why I prefer The Beach Boys. What do you guys think?

I think a lot of people compare the groups, and most of my friends dont mind The Beatles but arent really big fans of The Beach Boys. One of the reasons why I think, is because even though The Beach Boys do have some pretty catchy/accessible songs i think the beatles easily have the edge in catchy/accessible songs. I think why a lot of people 'CANT' get into the beach boys is the same reason why i didnt get into them for a fair while (i could be wrong but this is just my take on it). I just think a lot of the beach boys songs you really have to sit down and actively listen (sometimes many many times) so that you can 'allow' (cant think of how else to put it) Brians music to speak to/touch you. Thats my take on things anyway. I have to disagree with you vocally (while the beatles are great vocally, the Beach Boys are the BEST of all time, whereas the Beatles wouldnt even be in the top 20 vocal groups of all time.

I pretty much agree with all that you said about how good both bands are instrumentally, but I think the key difference to it all is songwriting and I think Brian takes that because of that feeling that weve been discussing that he puts in his songs (the ability to touch you with his songs), THAT is the true genius of Brian (putting that feeling in his songs) I also think one of Brians best musical gifts (of his many) is that he knows what to put in a song that helps to create that 'feeling' (eg: he knows who should sing lead vocal, he knows what instruments to put in etc..) thats why I prefer The Beach Boys

[MBE]

Hope you don't mind if I give I comment on a few things.
ALBUMS: From 1962-1966, it's very close. But in my opinion, the big four of All Summer Long/Today/Summer Days & Summer Nights/Pet Sounds barely edges A Hard Day's Night/Help/Rubber Soul/Revolver. Just barely. I know that's very, very subjective; it's just my opinion. However, after 1967, I think that The Beatles run the table. I think the series from Sgt. Pepper's to Let It Be outshines the Beach Boys series of Smiley Smile to Holland.

First this is totally subjective and not meant as a put down of you at all. Funny I think the Beatles later years are uneven in a way they never were early on. I admit some of their early stuff is basic. So are the Beach Boys. To me that's the charm. I think the Beach Boys were far more even from 67-70 because they weren't out to change rock and roll, they were out to make good music. Once the Beatles became self consious, started TRYING to be innovative they loose me on their artsy attitude alone. Hey I love many of the Beatles later songs, but as albums Pepper and Abbey Road try too hard to impress. The Beach Boys never did the one thing that to me set the Beatles in decline. The Beach Boys never stopped being funny. Even on Holland, Surf's Up, Pet Sounds there are moments of humor. The Beatles got very serious at times, didn't total loose their charm, but came close sometimes. The Beatles from 62-66 kept each other in check. When I'm 64 stayed unreleased until Pepper for a reason, Yoko would have been laughed out of the room by Lennon himself. Can you picture how much  the 1963 Beatles would have taken the piss out of thier 1968 selves?  If the Beatles had only continued to work together and edit each other they could have taken their music well into the next decade.

MUSICIANSHIP: That is really tough. From a formal stand point sure Dennis or Brian don't match Paul or Ringo, but from a entertainment standpoint they easily match. Ringo has his charm but Dennis is so much more in so many ways. From a image standpoint alone. Ringo is one of a kind but Dennis defined cool. Brian never was the poster boy or confident performer McCartney was, but he too has an edge to him that Paul doesn't. John and George were certainly no better then Al or Carl musically. Besides the Beatles didn't even try to play good live once they made it, and watching vintage clips of the same era of other group proove their excuses don't hold up.  Every Beach Boy was consistent in all ways until around 76 or so. 

VOCALS: The Beach Boys win this one, but it's not that overwhelming. John and Paul were so damn great, but we're talking about Brian and Carl Wilson, and, yes, Mike Love. Mike was one of the greatest lead singers in rock & roll. You can add George and Ringo, but the Beach Boys can counter with Al. And then, of course, there's the harmonies. Advantage Beach Boys.

The Beatles were good singers, but not nearly a match when it comes to harmony. Listen to You Won't See Me, Dennis never flatted as much as Lennon on this one. I agree with you here on the whole

I know it's debatable, because there are so many fans of The Beach Boys 1967-73 period. But I don't know if that feeling is universal. The Beatles, on the other hand, released Sgt. Pepper's, The White Album, and Abbey Road. So you'd think I would prefer The Beatles over The Beach Boys. Nope. As I mentioned in my above post, the "something" that Brian Wilson added to his music trumps a lot of the other factors. It's an intangible, but you can feel it. And that's why I prefer The Beach Boys. What do you guys think?
[/quote]

I think you wrote some very thought provoking things. I may not agree 100 percent but you got me thinking which is always good.

[busy doin nothin]

All I have to say is this -- if the only song the Beach Boys ever recorded was "Your Summer Dream," they would still be the greatest act in the history of music.  Ditto for "Let Him Run Wild," "Surf's Up," "My Diane," and at least 25 other tracks.  If I were going to be stranded on a desert island and I had a choice between MIU album and everything the Beatles, together or solo, recorded in their lives, I'd take MIU in a heartbeat.

And, I should add that MIU is only about my 14th favorite BB album.

And, yes, I do like the Beatles quite a bit.  But they -- like every other musical act -- don't even belong in the same ballpark as the Beach Boys.