Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again

[SurfRiderHawaii]

I get the Dennis stuff, at least to an extent.  And I don't like most of it.  I probably wouldn't pay a dollar for any released Dennis song (individually), with the exception of Morning Christmas.  Of course I'm interested to hear WIBNTLA, but I certainly don't expect to be blown away by it.

Wow.


WOW!!

One wonders why mariner is even on the Board. Guess there are a few people who only care about the 60's car, surf and sunshine hits. Fair enough as they are kinda two bands separated by PS/Smile.

[zachrwolfe]

‍

[TimmyC]

I have a problem with the need to "get" certain music in order to like it.  I realize that an appreciation for music increases the more you get it (i.e., the more you understand the interlacing of context, style, personality, circumstance, etc.), but I take issue when somebody tells me that I don't like something because I don't get it.  I get the Dennis stuff, at least to an extent.  And I don't like most of it.  I probably wouldn't pay a dollar for any released Dennis song (individually), with the exception of Morning Christmas.  Of course I'm interested to hear WIBNTLA, but I certainly don't expect to be blown away by it.

Oh shoot - I forgot Morning Christmas. That is a beautiful, beautiful song. Love it.

[Matt Bielewicz]

Gonna have to stop you there, ORR... I am passionate about Brian and the Boys' work from 1965-1974ish more than any other era (with a hardcore love of 1966-1970), appreciate and enjoy 1962-1965 but not to quite the same level, and my interest gradually tails off after 1974. In other words, I'm not just a fan of the early 60s 'fun in the sun' stuff either.

And (here's the rub)... I don't get on too well with Dennis's stuff either. To me, it's merely OK. Some bits of it are lovely; I like the first two parts of Baby Blue a great deal, think it's the equal of much that Brian wrote in terms of conveying intense love in musical form. I think Morning Christmas is absolutely great too. I own the POB/Bamboo set, too... but I find it really hard going. I cherry-pick parts, but even then, if I'm honest, I don't listen to it that often. For me, too often, what others hear as a great, soulful rock voice is just a guy who had utterly trashed one of his prime means of expression by the time POB (mostly) was recorded and almost completely by the time Bamboo was underway. It just sounds like a guy who can't sing.

I also admit that I'm not very into rock music generally, and perhaps that's part of the problem. So much of POB and Bamboo just sound like dull 70s rock to me. Well-executed 70s rock, sure (with the exception of Dennis's vocals), and with some nice harmonic surprises in a couple of the tunes that I am happy to play now and again. But much of it just doesn't 'speak' to me. Hey... prolly just me.

I actually instantly feel an affinity for Dennis's earlier work way more readily than anything on POB or Bamboo. His tunes on Sunflower and prior to that are right up my street. And [dons flameproof suit] I would actually take 'California Slide (aka I'm Going Your Way)' over much of Bamboo in a heartbeat... [closes flameproof hatch to bunker and descends into the Earth's core]

MattB

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Gonna have to stop you there, ORR... I am passionate about Brian and the Boys' work from 1965-1974ish more than any other era (with a hardcore love of 1966-1970), appreciate and enjoy 1962-1965 but not to quite the same level, and my interest gradually tails off after 1974. In other words, I'm not just a fan of the early 60s 'fun in the sun' stuff either.

And (here's the rub)... I don't get on too well with Dennis's stuff either. To me, it's merely OK. Some bits of it are lovely; I like the first two parts of Baby Blue a great deal, think it's the equal of much that Brian wrote in terms of conveying intense love in musical form. I think Morning Christmas is absolutely great too. I own the POB/Bamboo set, too... but I find it really hard going. I cherry-pick parts, but even then, if I'm honest, I don't listen to it that often. For me, too often, what others hear as a great, soulful rock voice is just a guy who had utterly trashed one of his prime means of expression by the time POB (mostly) was recorded and almost completely by the time Bamboo was underway. It just sounds like a guy who can't sing.

I also admit that I'm not very into rock music generally, and perhaps that's part of the problem. So much of POB and Bamboo just sound like dull 70s rock to me. Well-executed 70s rock, sure (with the exception of Dennis's vocals), and with some nice harmonic surprises in a couple of the tunes that I am happy to play now and again. But much of it just doesn't 'speak' to me. Hey... prolly just me.

I actually instantly feel an affinity for Dennis's earlier work way more readily than anything on POB or Bamboo. His tunes on Sunflower and prior to that are right up my street. And [dons flameproof suit] I would actually take 'California Slide (aka I'm Going Your Way)' over much of Bamboo in a heartbeat... [closes flameproof hatch to bunker and descends into the Earth's core]

MattB

Stop me where? I said a few people. Like my neighbors,  who left the C50 show at intermission because they had gotten to hear most of the hits they came to hear.

But there was no 65 to 74 era in my mind. Before Smile, it was all Brian writing the music, producing. After Smike, it was all the band members writing and producing.

I am a big Dennis fan, big Brian fan.

[Jon Stebbins]

It would seem that many people who don't like Dennis' stuff completely miss that so much of POB and Bambu are the closest anyone got to the Pet Sounds/Smile Brian in the way the tracks are constructed...instruments layered, eclectic choices of instruments, arrangements avoiding a verse/chorus normality, great tags. And Dennis went a bit further with his extensive use of tape speed manipulation to fatten the sound of pianos, synths, basses and bass vocals. The opening section to Love Remember Me is a great example of Dennis channeling Brian, I mean c'mon, the flutes/clarinet, bass harmonica and strings are right out of the Smile manual...also the brian-esque lushness within bits of Moonshine, Time, and End Of The Show, and what could possibly sound more like Smile than the track on Album Tag Song? I would assume the Dennis detractors are not particularly fans of that unique production style that Brian revealed when beauty, sadness, and LSD influenced freakiness are all dancing together in a dense wash of emotional bliss and melancholy. Dennis had it down, he learned Brian's vibe, and took on his own ride...rougher, rawer, but similar in its unique point of view.

[MarcellaHasDirtyFeet]

It would seem that many people who don't like Dennis' stuff completely miss that so much of POB and Bambu are the closest anyone got to the Pet Sounds/Smile Brian in the way the tracks are constructed...instruments layered, eclectic choices of instruments, arrangements avoiding a verse/chorus normality, great tags. And Dennis went a bit further with his extensive use of tape speed manipulation to fatten the sound of pianos, synths, basses and bass vocals. The opening section to Love Remember Me is a great example of Dennis channeling Brian, I mean c'mon, the flutes/clarinet, bass harmonica and strings are right out of the Smile manual...also the brian-esque lushness within bits of Moonshine, Time, and End Of The Show, and what could possibly sound more like Smile than the track on Album Tag Song? I would assume the Dennis detractors are not particularly fans of that unique production style that Brian revealed when beauty, sadness, and LSD influenced freakiness are all dancing together in a dense wash of emotional bliss and melancholy. Dennis had it down, he learned Brian's vibe, and took on his own ride...rougher, rawer, but similar in its unique point of view.

Perfect. Thanks, Mr. Stebbins.

[Nicko1234]

It would seem that many people who don't like Dennis' stuff completely miss that so much of POB and Bambu are the closest anyone got to the Pet Sounds/Smile Brian in the way the tracks are constructed...instruments layered, eclectic choices of instruments, arrangements avoiding a verse/chorus normality, great tags. And Dennis went a bit further with his extensive use of tape speed manipulation to fatten the sound of pianos, synths, basses and bass vocals. The opening section to Love Remember Me is a great example of Dennis channeling Brian, I mean c'mon, the flutes/clarinet, bass harmonica and strings are right out of the Smile manual...also the brian-esque lushness within bits of Moonshine, Time, and End Of The Show, and what could possibly sound more like Smile than the track on Album Tag Song? I would assume the Dennis detractors are not particularly fans of that unique production style that Brian revealed when beauty, sadness, and LSD influenced freakiness are all dancing together in a dense wash of emotional bliss and melancholy. Dennis had it down, he learned Brian's vibe, and took on his own ride...rougher, rawer, but similar in its unique point of view.

I think the sound of the finished product is very different and that is probably more important that the instruments being layered and so on.

And I say that as someone who likes POB and likes a few things on Bambu.

[Jeff]

Gonna have to stop you there, ORR... I am passionate about Brian and the Boys' work from 1965-1974ish more than any other era (with a hardcore love of 1966-1970), appreciate and enjoy 1962-1965 but not to quite the same level, and my interest gradually tails off after 1974. In other words, I'm not just a fan of the early 60s 'fun in the sun' stuff either.

And (here's the rub)... I don't get on too well with Dennis's stuff either. To me, it's merely OK. Some bits of it are lovely; I like the first two parts of Baby Blue a great deal, think it's the equal of much that Brian wrote in terms of conveying intense love in musical form. I think Morning Christmas is absolutely great too. I own the POB/Bamboo set, too... but I find it really hard going. I cherry-pick parts, but even then, if I'm honest, I don't listen to it that often. For me, too often, what others hear as a great, soulful rock voice is just a guy who had utterly trashed one of his prime means of expression by the time POB (mostly) was recorded and almost completely by the time Bamboo was underway. It just sounds like a guy who can't sing.

I also admit that I'm not very into rock music generally, and perhaps that's part of the problem. So much of POB and Bamboo just sound like dull 70s rock to me. Well-executed 70s rock, sure (with the exception of Dennis's vocals), and with some nice harmonic surprises in a couple of the tunes that I am happy to play now and again. But much of it just doesn't 'speak' to me. Hey... prolly just me.

I actually instantly feel an affinity for Dennis's earlier work way more readily than anything on POB or Bamboo. His tunes on Sunflower and prior to that are right up my street. And [dons flameproof suit] I would actually take 'California Slide (aka I'm Going Your Way)' over much of Bamboo in a heartbeat... [closes flameproof hatch to bunker and descends into the Earth's core]

MattB

Stop me where? I said a few people. Like my neighbors,  who left the C50 show at intermission because they had gotten to hear most of the hits they came to hear.

But there was no 65 to 74 era in my mind. Before Smile, it was all Brian writing the music, producing. After Smike, it was all the band members writing and producing.

I am a big Dennis fan, big Brian fan.

I would take issue with your dividing line, which I think actually is roughly August '68, during the period when 20/20 was recorded.  Of Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, Friends and the intial songs on 20/20, Brian was the writer or among the writers of every song but four, and one of those was partly cribbed from something he had written.  During that same mid-67 to mid-68 period, Brian also wrote Can't Wait Too Long and Old Folks at Home/Ol Man River, both very ambitious.  You could debate who produced all those songs, but at very least, Brian had a big hand in things.

Starting with fall '68, it was all very different. Brian's songs were much, much fewer, and his production duties minimal at best.

Perhaps not coincidentally, it was fall '68 when Dennis really began to show something as a songwriter.

[Jim V.]

It would seem that many people who don't like Dennis' stuff completely miss that so much of POB and Bambu are the closest anyone got to the Pet Sounds/Smile Brian in the way the tracks are constructed...instruments layered, eclectic choices of instruments, arrangements avoiding a verse/chorus normality, great tags. And Dennis went a bit further with his extensive use of tape speed manipulation to fatten the sound of pianos, synths, basses and bass vocals. The opening section to Love Remember Me is a great example of Dennis channeling Brian, I mean c'mon, the flutes/clarinet, bass harmonica and strings are right out of the Smile manual...also the brian-esque lushness within bits of Moonshine, Time, and End Of The Show, and what could possibly sound more like Smile than the track on Album Tag Song? I would assume the Dennis detractors are not particularly fans of that unique production style that Brian revealed when beauty, sadness, and LSD influenced freakiness are all dancing together in a dense wash of emotional bliss and melancholy. Dennis had it down, he learned Brian's vibe, and took on his own ride...rougher, rawer, but similar in its unique point of view.

I really dig a lot of Dennis' stuff, but "Album Tag Song" for instance, while having a SMiLE vibe, was also not even put together by Dennis. The vocal part, which cuts between the driving piano parts, wasn't even intended for the song. So...yeah.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Gonna have to stop you there, ORR... I am passionate about Brian and the Boys' work from 1965-1974ish more than any other era (with a hardcore love of 1966-1970), appreciate and enjoy 1962-1965 but not to quite the same level, and my interest gradually tails off after 1974. In other words, I'm not just a fan of the early 60s 'fun in the sun' stuff either.

And (here's the rub)... I don't get on too well with Dennis's stuff either. To me, it's merely OK. Some bits of it are lovely; I like the first two parts of Baby Blue a great deal, think it's the equal of much that Brian wrote in terms of conveying intense love in musical form. I think Morning Christmas is absolutely great too. I own the POB/Bamboo set, too... but I find it really hard going. I cherry-pick parts, but even then, if I'm honest, I don't listen to it that often. For me, too often, what others hear as a great, soulful rock voice is just a guy who had utterly trashed one of his prime means of expression by the time POB (mostly) was recorded and almost completely by the time Bamboo was underway. It just sounds like a guy who can't sing.

I also admit that I'm not very into rock music generally, and perhaps that's part of the problem. So much of POB and Bamboo just sound like dull 70s rock to me. Well-executed 70s rock, sure (with the exception of Dennis's vocals), and with some nice harmonic surprises in a couple of the tunes that I am happy to play now and again. But much of it just doesn't 'speak' to me. Hey... prolly just me.

I actually instantly feel an affinity for Dennis's earlier work way more readily than anything on POB or Bamboo. His tunes on Sunflower and prior to that are right up my street. And [dons flameproof suit] I would actually take 'California Slide (aka I'm Going Your Way)' over much of Bamboo in a heartbeat... [closes flameproof hatch to bunker and descends into the Earth's core]

MattB

Stop me where? I said a few people. Like my neighbors,  who left the C50 show at intermission because they had gotten to hear most of the hits they came to hear.

But there was no 65 to 74 era in my mind. Before Smile, it was all Brian writing the music, producing. After Smike, it was all the band members writing and producing.

I am a big Dennis fan, big Brian fan.

I would take issue with your dividing line, which I think actually is roughly August '68, during the period when 20/20 was recorded.  Of Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, Friends and the intial songs on 20/20, Brian was the writer or among the writers of every song but four, and one of those was partly cribbed from something he had written.  During that same mid-67 to mid-68 period, Brian also wrote Can't Wait Too Long and Old Folks at Home/Ol Man River, both very ambitious.  You could debate who produced all those songs, but at very least, Brian had a big hand in things.

Starting with fall '68, it was all very different. Brian's songs were much, much fewer, and his production duties minimal at best.

Perhaps not coincidentally, it was fall '68 when Dennis really began to show something as a songwriter.

Sure, 1968 works. But Brian started pulling away after Smile.

[adamghost]

The experience I have had over and over again is if people aren't particularly "into" the Beach Boys for whatever reason, you play Dennis' stuff for them and they go "Oh?  Now this is I like.  Who is this?"

I guess the flipside of that is you would expect a certain number of hardcore BBs freaks to not resonate with it.

[Ziggy Stardust]

True, i guess i'm in the middle since i really dig both as much, they aim for something different but are as well written and executed.

[Jon Stebbins]

It would seem that many people who don't like Dennis' stuff completely miss that so much of POB and Bambu are the closest anyone got to the Pet Sounds/Smile Brian in the way the tracks are constructed...instruments layered, eclectic choices of instruments, arrangements avoiding a verse/chorus normality, great tags. And Dennis went a bit further with his extensive use of tape speed manipulation to fatten the sound of pianos, synths, basses and bass vocals. The opening section to Love Remember Me is a great example of Dennis channeling Brian, I mean c'mon, the flutes/clarinet, bass harmonica and strings are right out of the Smile manual...also the brian-esque lushness within bits of Moonshine, Time, and End Of The Show, and what could possibly sound more like Smile than the track on Album Tag Song? I would assume the Dennis detractors are not particularly fans of that unique production style that Brian revealed when beauty, sadness, and LSD influenced freakiness are all dancing together in a dense wash of emotional bliss and melancholy. Dennis had it down, he learned Brian's vibe, and took on his own ride...rougher, rawer, but similar in its unique point of view.

I really dig a lot of Dennis' stuff, but "Album Tag Song" for instance, while having a SMiLE vibe, was also not even put together by Dennis. The vocal part, which cuts between the driving piano parts, wasn't even intended for the song. So...yeah.

I was referring to the Smile-esque uptempo section of the track Album Tag Song, the edited in vocal part is irrelevant to that point. But since you mentioned that I can give some first hand perspective since I was one of two people in the studio when Album Tag Song was mixed and edited for the POB Sony Legacy set, as I was for most of the mixdowns of the Bambu and POB bonus tracks. The other person there was John Hanlon who mixed and edited the tracks, and BTW who originally did some work on the track with Dennis in '76 as well...and his decisions were always based on what would Dennis have wanted. John still had reference cassettes from '76/'77 that contained some of Dennis' rough mixes and editing ideas as so much of Dennis' work was recorded in sections that fit together like a mysterious puzzle (much like Brian). John H was pretty good at figuring out those puzzles, many times he referred to Dennis' notes and those old rough and hissy cassettes...and it was his call that Dennis intended a pace break in Album Tag Song. John used what he felt was one of the only things in the archive that transitioned well in a compatible key, and that came close to realizing an idea Dennis had for completing the track. So...yeah.

[Jim V.]

It would seem that many people who don't like Dennis' stuff completely miss that so much of POB and Bambu are the closest anyone got to the Pet Sounds/Smile Brian in the way the tracks are constructed...instruments layered, eclectic choices of instruments, arrangements avoiding a verse/chorus normality, great tags. And Dennis went a bit further with his extensive use of tape speed manipulation to fatten the sound of pianos, synths, basses and bass vocals. The opening section to Love Remember Me is a great example of Dennis channeling Brian, I mean c'mon, the flutes/clarinet, bass harmonica and strings are right out of the Smile manual...also the brian-esque lushness within bits of Moonshine, Time, and End Of The Show, and what could possibly sound more like Smile than the track on Album Tag Song? I would assume the Dennis detractors are not particularly fans of that unique production style that Brian revealed when beauty, sadness, and LSD influenced freakiness are all dancing together in a dense wash of emotional bliss and melancholy. Dennis had it down, he learned Brian's vibe, and took on his own ride...rougher, rawer, but similar in its unique point of view.

I really dig a lot of Dennis' stuff, but "Album Tag Song" for instance, while having a SMiLE vibe, was also not even put together by Dennis. The vocal part, which cuts between the driving piano parts, wasn't even intended for the song. So...yeah.

I was referring to the Smile-esque uptempo section of the track Album Tag Song, the edited in vocal part is irrelevant to that point. But since you mentioned that I can give some first hand perspective since I was one of two people in the studio when Album Tag Song was mixed and edited for the POB Sony Legacy set, as I was for most of the mixdowns of the Bambu and POB bonus tracks. The other person there was John Hanlon who mixed and edited the tracks, and BTW who originally did some work on the track with Dennis in '76 as well...and his decisions were always based on what would Dennis have wanted. John still had reference cassettes from '76/'77 that contained some of Dennis' rough mixes and editing ideas as so much of Dennis' work was recorded in sections that fit together like a mysterious puzzle (much like Brian). John H was pretty good at figuring out those puzzles, many times he referred to Dennis' notes and those old rough and hissy cassettes...and it was his call that Dennis intended a pace break in Album Tag Song. John used what he felt was one of the only things in the archive that transitioned well in a compatible key, and that came close to realizing an idea Dennis had for completing the track. So...yeah.

Ahh...that was good. You got back at me with that "so...yeah" thing but the fact is Dennis still had f*** all to do with the track being put together. Sorry. I'm glad it felt like Dennis was there or whatever. I'll be honest. I really liked the piece. But once I found out the sequence had nothing to do with Dennis wants or needs, then I lost interest.

[Wirestone]

I don't know. I just feel like Dennis's work is so far removed from Brian's -- or should be -- that it almost does everyone a disservice by talking about the two as if they're super-connected. And yet, Dennis so obviously wanted to build on Brian's work that his own thoughts and ideas can't quite stand apart. I mean, he kept writing parts for Carl in his songs!

It feels like the studio experimentation was ultimately a bad thing for Dennis, because it exacerbated his lack of discipline. He wrote fewer and looser songs, and the quality and content of the lyrics dropped. But maybe that's impossible to separate from his alcoholism. What is interesting, to me, are Dennis's collaborations with Brian from the early 80s. "Stevie" works out really well -- a Denny-produced BW track -- and shows both of them avoiding their worst excesses of the time. "City Blues" is pretty neat, too.

[Jon Stebbins]

It would seem that many people who don't like Dennis' stuff completely miss that so much of POB and Bambu are the closest anyone got to the Pet Sounds/Smile Brian in the way the tracks are constructed...instruments layered, eclectic choices of instruments, arrangements avoiding a verse/chorus normality, great tags. And Dennis went a bit further with his extensive use of tape speed manipulation to fatten the sound of pianos, synths, basses and bass vocals. The opening section to Love Remember Me is a great example of Dennis channeling Brian, I mean c'mon, the flutes/clarinet, bass harmonica and strings are right out of the Smile manual...also the brian-esque lushness within bits of Moonshine, Time, and End Of The Show, and what could possibly sound more like Smile than the track on Album Tag Song? I would assume the Dennis detractors are not particularly fans of that unique production style that Brian revealed when beauty, sadness, and LSD influenced freakiness are all dancing together in a dense wash of emotional bliss and melancholy. Dennis had it down, he learned Brian's vibe, and took on his own ride...rougher, rawer, but similar in its unique point of view.

I really dig a lot of Dennis' stuff, but "Album Tag Song" for instance, while having a SMiLE vibe, was also not even put together by Dennis. The vocal part, which cuts between the driving piano parts, wasn't even intended for the song. So...yeah.

I was referring to the Smile-esque uptempo section of the track Album Tag Song, the edited in vocal part is irrelevant to that point. But since you mentioned that I can give some first hand perspective since I was one of two people in the studio when Album Tag Song was mixed and edited for the POB Sony Legacy set, as I was for most of the mixdowns of the Bambu and POB bonus tracks. The other person there was John Hanlon who mixed and edited the tracks, and BTW who originally did some work on the track with Dennis in '76 as well...and his decisions were always based on what would Dennis have wanted. John still had reference cassettes from '76/'77 that contained some of Dennis' rough mixes and editing ideas as so much of Dennis' work was recorded in sections that fit together like a mysterious puzzle (much like Brian). John H was pretty good at figuring out those puzzles, many times he referred to Dennis' notes and those old rough and hissy cassettes...and it was his call that Dennis intended a pace break in Album Tag Song. John used what he felt was one of the only things in the archive that transitioned well in a compatible key, and that came close to realizing an idea Dennis had for completing the track. So...yeah.

Ahh...that was good. You got back at me with that "so...yeah" thing but the fact is Dennis still had f*** all to do with the track being put together. Sorry. I'm glad it felt like Dennis was there or whatever. I'll be honest. I really liked the piece. But once I found out the sequence had nothing to do with Dennis wants or needs, then I lost interest.

Like I said, from my observation over the course of the project, that wasn't the case.

[monicker]

There’s a lot of defensive nonsense in this thread like disliking something means you just don’t “get” it, or if you’re not into Dennis’ music you must luv TWGMTR or only the early surf and car hits or insert another irrelevant, baseless non-sequiter. Also, funnily, Jon Stebbins comparing Dennis and Brian (if it hurts your argument, discard it, if it helps your argument, use it).

Not liking Dennis’ music is clearly a hard pill to swallow around here. Yes, this is a Beach Boys forum but Dennis Wilson ≠ The Beach Boys. I myself find the idea of POB being a masterpiece a hard pill to swallow. But anyone who thinks that is obviously entitled to that opinion. And that’s just what these things are, opinions, right? Someone mentioned earlier how there’s this automatic expectation for hardcore BB fans to also be fans of Dennis’ music. Well, why is that? If he’s so different from Brian (which i absolutely agree he is) why is it that his critics are addressed with with such a knee jerk reaction and even shamed for not liking him? Can we stop with that?

Someone a few posts up mentioned an example of what i alluded to earlier in this thread: those people who can’t get into the BB (for whatever reasons) but really perk up when they hear Dennis stuff. You can also see this all over youtube comments: Hey, this is serious, emotional good music, not that corny BB crap, or whatever. To a certain slice of the music/rock world, Dennis is a lot more accessible. And i think it’s because he’s also more generic. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that his brand of ’70s rock is more revered and taken more seriously amongst the general music population, and more in line with what rock music “should” be,  than the general style of the Beach Boys, even including their early ’70s stuff. And that’s just the thing--i can’t speak for others, so speaking only for myself here--Dennis’ post ’73 music sounds like boring ’70s rock/rock ballads to me. I don’t like that style/sound. It doesn’t really help that i’m not a rock person. I find neither the compositions, arrangements, or production remotely interesting, engaging, or moving. I also really, really don’t like his voice and how he uses it (and before someone decides for me that i must not like raw voices, i can tell you that i love Tom Waits’ voice and the way he uses it). And that’s it. It’s personal tastes. It’s not because of whatever qualifier one wants to add to discredit a dissenting opinion while defending their own. There’s nothing wrong about not liking Dennis’ music. It doesn’t make one musically ignorant. It doesn’t mean one can’t recognize greatness (a completely subjective concept anyway, so good luck quantifying that one). It doesn’t mean one doesn’t have an appreciation for “raw” music. It doesn't mean that Dennis must be too emotionally heavy for them, etc. etc. It would be nice if this habit of qualifying other people’s opinions would stop.

[Jon Stebbins]

Also, funnily, Jon Stebbins comparing Dennis and Brian (if it hurts your argument, discard it, if it helps your argument, use it).

I have said I don't like to see comparisons that turn it into a competition between them, that is true...and that's because I love both of them. But I often do compare the similarities in their process of arranging and recording backing tracks and their unique way of taking a "from the heart" approach to creating songs. I think there is a common element of human-ness that shows in each of their respective styles.

[Amazing Larry]

Gonna have to stop you there, ORR... I am passionate about Brian and the Boys' work from 1965-1974ish more than any other era (with a hardcore love of 1966-1970), appreciate and enjoy 1962-1965 but not to quite the same level, and my interest gradually tails off after 1974. In other words, I'm not just a fan of the early 60s 'fun in the sun' stuff either.

And (here's the rub)... I don't get on too well with Dennis's stuff either. To me, it's merely OK. Some bits of it are lovely; I like the first two parts of Baby Blue a great deal, think it's the equal of much that Brian wrote in terms of conveying intense love in musical form. I think Morning Christmas is absolutely great too. I own the POB/Bamboo set, too... but I find it really hard going. I cherry-pick parts, but even then, if I'm honest, I don't listen to it that often. For me, too often, what others hear as a great, soulful rock voice is just a guy who had utterly trashed one of his prime means of expression by the time POB (mostly) was recorded and almost completely by the time Bamboo was underway. It just sounds like a guy who can't sing.

I also admit that I'm not very into rock music generally, and perhaps that's part of the problem. So much of POB and Bamboo just sound like dull 70s rock to me. Well-executed 70s rock, sure (with the exception of Dennis's vocals), and with some nice harmonic surprises in a couple of the tunes that I am happy to play now and again. But much of it just doesn't 'speak' to me. Hey... prolly just me.

I actually instantly feel an affinity for Dennis's earlier work way more readily than anything on POB or Bamboo. His tunes on Sunflower and prior to that are right up my street. And [dons flameproof suit] I would actually take 'California Slide (aka I'm Going Your Way)' over much of Bamboo in a heartbeat... [closes flameproof hatch to bunker and descends into the Earth's core]

MattB

Stop me where? I said a few people. Like my neighbors,  who left the C50 show at intermission because they had gotten to hear most of the hits they came to hear.

But there was no 65 to 74 era in my mind. Before Smile, it was all Brian writing the music, producing. After Smike, it was all the band members writing and producing.

I am a big Dennis fan, big Brian fan.

Is Smike another abandoned Mike Love solo album?

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Gonna have to stop you there, ORR... I am passionate a bout Brian and the Boys' work from 1965-1974ish more than any other era (with a hardcore love of 1966-1970), appreciate and enjoy 1962-1965 but not to quite the same level, and my interest gradually tails off after 1974. In other words, I'm not just a fan of the early 60s 'fun in the sun' stuff either.

And (here's the rub)... I don't get on too well with Dennis's stuff either. To me, it's merely OK. Some bits of it are lovely; I like the first two parts of Baby Blue a great deal, think it's the equal of much that Brian wrote in terms of conveying intense love in musical form. I think Morning Christmas is absolutely great too. I own the POB/Bamboo set, too... but I find it really hard going. I cherry-pick parts, but even then, if I'm honest, I don't listen to it that often. For me, too often, what others hear as a great, soulful rock voice is just a guy who had utterly trashed one of his prime means of expression by the time POB (mostly) was recorded and almost completely by the time Bamboo was underway. It just sounds like a guy who can't sing.

I also admit that I'm not very into rock music generally, and perhaps that's part of the problem. So much of POB and Bamboo just sound like dull 70s rock to me. Well-executed 70s rock, sure (with the exception of Dennis's vocals), and with some nice harmonic surprises in a couple of the tunes that I am happy to play now and again. But much of it just doesn't 'speak' to me. Hey... prolly just me.

I actually instantly feel an affinity for Dennis's earlier work way more readily than anything on POB or Bamboo. His tunes on Sunflower and prior to that are right up my street. And [dons flameproof suit] I would actually take 'California Slide (aka I'm Going Your Way)' over much of Bamboo in a heartbeat... [closes flameproof hatch to bunker and descends into the Earth's core]

MattB

Stop me where? I said a few people. Like my neighbors,  who left the C50 show at intermission because they had gotten to hear most of the hits they came to hear.

But there was no 65 to 74 era in my mind. Before Smile, it was all Brian writing the music, producing. After Smike, it was all the band members writing and producing.

I am a big Dennis fan, big Brian fan.

Is Smike another abandoned Mike Love solo album?

Boy, am I a bad speller! Poking on this tablet doesn't help.

[SonicVolcano]

After 44 pages still no link to the song.

I am disappoint

[Jay]

Gonna have to stop you there, ORR... I am passionate a bout Brian and the Boys' work from 1965-1974ish more than any other era (with a hardcore love of 1966-1970), appreciate and enjoy 1962-1965 but not to quite the same level, and my interest gradually tails off after 1974. In other words, I'm not just a fan of the early 60s 'fun in the sun' stuff either.

And (here's the rub)... I don't get on too well with Dennis's stuff either. To me, it's merely OK. Some bits of it are lovely; I like the first two parts of Baby Blue a great deal, think it's the equal of much that Brian wrote in terms of conveying intense love in musical form. I think Morning Christmas is absolutely great too. I own the POB/Bamboo set, too... but I find it really hard going. I cherry-pick parts, but even then, if I'm honest, I don't listen to it that often. For me, too often, what others hear as a great, soulful rock voice is just a guy who had utterly trashed one of his prime means of expression by the time POB (mostly) was recorded and almost completely by the time Bamboo was underway. It just sounds like a guy who can't sing.

I also admit that I'm not very into rock music generally, and perhaps that's part of the problem. So much of POB and Bamboo just sound like dull 70s rock to me. Well-executed 70s rock, sure (with the exception of Dennis's vocals), and with some nice harmonic surprises in a couple of the tunes that I am happy to play now and again. But much of it just doesn't 'speak' to me. Hey... prolly just me.

I actually instantly feel an affinity for Dennis's earlier work way more readily than anything on POB or Bamboo. His tunes on Sunflower and prior to that are right up my street. And [dons flameproof suit] I would actually take 'California Slide (aka I'm Going Your Way)' over much of Bamboo in a heartbeat... [closes flameproof hatch to bunker and descends into the Earth's core]

MattB

Stop me where? I said a few people. Like my neighbors,  who left the C50 show at intermission because they had gotten to hear most of the hits they came to hear.

But there was no 65 to 74 era in my mind. Before Smile, it was all Brian writing the music, producing. After Smike, it was all the band members writing and producing.

I am a big Dennis fan, big Brian fan.

Is Smike another abandoned Mike Love solo album?

Boy, am I a bad speller! Poking on this tablet doesn't help.

You're poking on the table, and looking on the internet at the same time?   

[?]

The experience I have had over and over again is if people aren't particularly "into" the Beach Boys for whatever reason, you play Dennis' stuff for them and they go "Oh?  Now this is I like.  Who is this?"

I guess the flipside of that is you would expect a certain number of hardcore BBs freaks to not resonate with it.

I've had the exact opposite experience.  I've played Dennis' solo music around people who aren't into the Beach Boys and every time they've shot me a look and said, "This is the Beach Boys isn't it?"  I think it sounds very different of course, but there's something there that makes it recognizable to non-fans (the ones I know at least).

[Ziggy Stardust]

The experience I have had over and over again is if people aren't particularly "into" the Beach Boys for whatever reason, you play Dennis' stuff for them and they go "Oh?  Now this is I like.  Who is this?"

I guess the flipside of that is you would expect a certain number of hardcore BBs freaks to not resonate with it.

I've had the exact opposite experience.  I've played Dennis' solo music around people who aren't into the Beach Boys and every time they've shot me a look and said, "This is the Beach Boys isn't it?"  I think it sounds very different of course, but there's something there that makes it recognizable to non-fans (the ones I know at least).

That experience happened to me at least about 10 times and never ever they had any idea it was even close to be a Beach Boys related thing, even some of them disliked the Beach Boys and would love POB.