Faviorte country

[Jeff Mason]

Well I can't help it Ian, my parents fodaing loathe country (except my dad likes Johnny Cash and Elvis)... so I've not been exposed to so much.  Just wondering what makes a song country.

Country is about a culture as much as it is a sound.  That's why Gram Parsons and Chris Hillman melded so quickly -- they spoke the same language.  I may live in Ohio but I grew up an Okie and my dad listened to old style country a lot.  Radio mostly.  I bet I will remember all of it if I were to dig into Conway Twitty or George Jones -- that was the type of music he played (just never bought).  So I grew up not realizing how deeply rooted it was in my soul until much later.  Listening to Sweetheart of the Rodeo and Gilded Palace of Sin showed it to me.  One of these days, after my Johnny Cash fest winds down, I will ask Nashville Cat to recommend some George Jones to me.

The songs you list?  They may be folk, and folk and country may have genuine interaction (see late 60's Dylan), but they are miles away from Southern/Southwestern country.  You almost have to have lived it to get it I think.

[Joel5001]

Or if you want modern country, pure stuff, and I SHOULD have mentioned it earlier, Home by the Dixie Chicks.  Now THAT is a modern country album full of soul.  I always melt when I listen to A Home, and for my money they do Landslide better than the original.

Wow.  That surprises me.  I wrote the Dixie Chicks off after hearing them sing that irritating "Earl Has to Die" song, so I've never really heard much of their stuff.  Maybe I'll check it out.  Disagree about "Landslide" though.  Lindsey and Stevie cannot be topped.

[Jeff Mason]

Have you actually *heard* the Chicks' version?  Don't disagree until you actually hear it.

[I. Spaceman]

You'll really dig that album, Joel. I guarantee it.

Country, soul and gospel lived right next door to each other in the south. Chuck Berry grew up listening to the Opry. You know what happened next.

[Matinee Idyll]

What about those country piss-take type songs?  Like "Long Tall Texan", what's that all about?

[Joel5001]

Have you actually *heard* the Chicks' version?  Don't disagree until you actually hear it.

No I've heard that one on the radio.  I just meant that I've never checked out any of their albums. 

Still prefer the original.

[Jeff Mason]

What about those country piss-take type songs?  Like "Long Tall Texan", what's that all about?

Ugh.  Pure parody.  Terrible terrible mistake.  It's like listening to Dear Doctor on Beggar's Banquet, or that country thing on Some Girls, and then listening to when they got it right on the Exile tracks.

[I. Spaceman]

What about those country piss-take type songs?  Like "Long Tall Texan", what's that all about?

Ugh.  Pure parody.  Terrible terrible mistake.  It's like listening to Dear Doctor on Beggar's Banquet, or that country thing on Some Girls, and then listening to when they got it right on the Exile tracks.

Awww man, Dear Doctor and Far Away Eyes are incredible. They even did great country-blues on Aftermath. High And Dry.

[Jeff Mason]

The instrumental feel is OK, Keef had that down, but Jagger's vocals?  Say it isn't so Ian!  He only did it right once in his career, during Exile.

[Matinee Idyll]

The problem I have is when listening to 'oldies' radio (50's and 60's stuff), I can't bloody tell what's a pisstake and what's for real when they're playing country/country-esque tunes...

[Jeff Mason]

The problem I have is when listening to 'oldies' radio (50's and 60's stuff), I can't bloody tell what's a pisstake and what's for real when they're playing country/country-esque tunes...

Before Sweetheart of the Rodeo, no one did country seriously IMO unless they were true country or at least rockabilly artists.  Ringo wanted to but the band didn't have the same feel.  As nice as the Beatles' versions are, the Carl Perkins originals are so much nicer.

[Chris D.]

What about those country piss-take type songs?  Like "Long Tall Texan", what's that all about?

Jeff and Ian know way more about country than me, but the place of those "piss-take" songs might be lost on you since you're not American.  Jeff said that country is as much a lifestyle as a musical genre here, and that's true.  American doesn't have as rigid a class system as, say, England, but "country" or southern culture is one place you can see our class system.  You get those "piss-take" songs because people think that country music is a joke made by illiterate people in the American south.  For some reason it's pretty acceptable to insult poor white people too in a way that isn't so for poor black people -- in certain circles, at least.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you get piss-takes of country more than blues, you know?  And country is probably the one American genre to not really carry over into other countries.  Definitely not in the way rock and roll, jazz, or rap/hip-hop have.  It just doesn't seem to be seen as a serious form outside of America, and even here you have to go to rural areas to find people who accept it, whether in the north or south.

[I. Spaceman]

How about The Monkees, Jeff?

GREAT post, D.

[Jeff Mason]

As Ian would say, right on Chris.

And most people lump anything with a pedal steel or banjo into country, as if there were no difference between, say, Appalachian music vs. Bluegrass vs. Tex-Mex vs. pure Alabama country.  And yet there are some important differences there.  And you are absolutely right on the economic factor there.  You never hear anyone make fun of poor black people but how many redneck jokes are there in this world?

[Jeff Mason]

How about The Monkees, Jeff?

GREAT post, D.

That sort of proves my point.  The only country that they did was Mike's stuff and where did Mike grow up?  He may say he's a rocker at heart but to my ears he is a rocker like Cash or Parsons were rockers.  He has the same pure feel as the other artists from Nashville had and is a good example of the Texas strains of country IMO.

[I. Spaceman]

But he's also a pure pop songwriter, and an experimental genius dabbling in many things. That's why he got along with Zappa/. I mean, what do Circle Sky, Don''t Wait For Me and Writing Wrongs have in common, musically?

[Chris D.]

Thanks Jeff and Ian.  Your country knowledge always impresses me.  I know I need to dig into that stuff.

[Jeff Mason]

That's like saying that Elvis was just a country singer.  Mike is too talented to limit to one genre, but when he does the country, he does it from the soul as one who grew up in it vs. someone who does it as a genre exercise.

Perhaps this will get at what I am trying to say -- compare on the CD Roger McGuinn's singing on The Christian Life vs Gram Parsons.  Which one sounds real and which sounds forced?  Mike NEVER sounds forced.  Jagger was forced on Dear Doctor but real somehow on Torn and Frayed (I think it was the hard breaks they had suffered, maybe?).

[I. Spaceman]

OK, I get it now.
All you had to do was cite the Christian Life example. Right on the money.
The real stuff is, indeed the best, but the parodies and imitations can be great in their own way as well IMO, like the Stones, Kinks and Beatles things.

[Joel5001]

I have to admit it took me a long time to accept the Stones' country excursions.  You have to love the sheer audacity of believing that they could pull it off.  I don't get the feeling that they're piss takes at all.  Certainly they ring truer than Mick's exhortations to the "common people" i.e. Salt of the Earth.

[I. Spaceman]

Certainly they ring truer than Mick's exhortations to the "common people" i.e. Salt of the Earth.

That one brings a tear to my eye, sincere or not.

[monkee knutz]

Merle Haggard amazes me. A few years ago, I checked out a 4CD set from the public library and was suprised that I knew nearly everything on the first 2 discs. I didn't add them all up and I forgot how many hits that guy had. Amazing. Buck Owens & Marty Robbins, too.

I steer clear of new country, but BR549 is pretty stellar. The only thing they did that I didn't care for was a live disc called Coast To Coast. Everything else is SOLID.

[al]

The Stones meant it (well, apart from Faraway eyes anyway....) - even before Keith hooked up with Gram they had an natural feel for rock n roll, blues, country and could make a passable stab at all of them.

My favourite country music - starting with Hank Williams' Rambling Man (if you've never heard it seek it out, sends shivers down my spine), from GP (everything...), Nez (likewise - it's all good, early stuff is more country than 70's/80's but Tropical Campfires is a wonderful 'modern' country - or at least Texan - record) - Costello's Almost Blue (which, along with the Byrds, opened up country for me) - currently love Ryan Adams' occasional forays into country, love pedal steel with rock bands - Ben Keith on Neil Youngs albums is SO good - Alburqueque (? - apologies for spelling, i'm English and its late here) is sublime.

Also early Nancy Griffiths, Nitty Gritty Dirt Band (love their version of Some Of Shelleys Blues), Kathleen Edwards great new album (Back To Me)...I could go on....over to you...

[GP1138]

"fodain' In The Butt" by David Allan Coe

Oh, seriously?

"He'll Have To Go" by Jim Reeves

I just 'd at the forum's curse filter mangling my first choice. ROFL

[Matinee Idyll]

What about those country piss-take type songs?  Like "Long Tall Texan", what's that all about?

Jeff and Ian know way more about country than me, but the place of those "piss-take" songs might be lost on you since you're not American.  Jeff said that country is as much a lifestyle as a musical genre here, and that's true.  American doesn't have as rigid a class system as, say, England, but "country" or southern culture is one place you can see our class system.  You get those "piss-take" songs because people think that country music is a joke made by illiterate people in the American south.  For some reason it's pretty acceptable to insult poor white people too in a way that isn't so for poor black people -- in certain circles, at least.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you get piss-takes of country more than blues, you know?  And country is probably the one American genre to not really carry over into other countries.  Definitely not in the way rock and roll, jazz, or rap/hip-hop have.  It just doesn't seem to be seen as a serious form outside of America, and even here you have to go to rural areas to find people who accept it, whether in the north or south.

Indeed, great post Christ.

But what was the point of a band like The Beach Boys doing that type of song?  To try and get a crossover appeal, or is it simply that they liked the song (or Mike is a redneck basher at heart)?

Country is really quite huge here in Australia, but it's no doubt a whole other kettle of fish rather than just an 'offshoot' of the American 'version'...