Carl's Relationship with Mike Al and Bruce

[AMDG]

There is alot known about the relationships between Mike and Al, Brian and Mike and Al and Brian.  I always wondered about Carl's relationships through the years with Mike, Al and Bruce.  Carl certainly never said much about it.

The only thing I can really surmise is that things went very sour from 1977 through 1978 - and this is only looking at Carl's postion on stage.  I remeber seeing them in Boston the night Brian was on SNL.  Carl was to Mike's left, but very much in front (when he played the electic piano they had to place it out there.  If you look at the Largo videos he is as far away from Mike as possible.  Of course, a couple of years later when  he cleaned up Carl was right back where he was before.  Otherwise I don't have a clue as to what was going on between them although I guess Carls silence and Mike's reletive silence on Carl's death might speak volumes.

My sense is that Carl was frustrated by the devolution of the band into an oldies act and one would expect it to impact hgis relationship with his bandmates, but then again that was the right business decision.

[c-man]

Well Carl was obviously disappointed in the "oldies" direction, hence his leaving for a year in '81-'82.  But like you said, he realized it was a viable business decision, especially since their new music kept falling flat saleswise, with a couple of notable exceptions (and those exceptions tended to have a "retro" feel to them, which was restrictive artistically).  Interestingly though, Carl's own music (solo and with Beckley and Lamm) was not very artistic, but tried hard to be contemporarily commercial. 

I think that after Dennis' death, Al felt some guilt about the schism that had formed between he and Mike on the one side and the Wilson brothers on the other, so from that point, you start to see Al and Carl being interviewed together, and Mike and Bruce being interviewed together.  I think that's where the new "party lines" were drawn, although I also think all four of them stood united against Brian (actually the Landy-controlled Brian). 

[tpesky]

I agree Al and Carl's friendship/bond was much more noticeable in the 80's, in fact I think even a little before Dennis's death from the time Carl came backin 82.In fact, if I recall correctly, Al was very upset and "had enough" when one of Mike's brothers punched Carl out on the Australian 78 tour. That seemed to weaken the Al/Mike alliance a little. I think if Al had sided with Dennis and Carl sooner, things may have gone down differently, but who knows??
It was certainly Al who became the critic of the oldies act in the 1990's and was big behind the Unplugged tour

[Emdeeh]

It was more than just who interviewed together. When the BBs had to share dressing rooms in the '80s and '90s, Carl and Al would share one and Mike and Bruce the other. Carl and Al also socialized on the road, going to dinner together with their wives.

Other than the obvious family connection of brothers to one another, the alliances among the band in the '70s were more about lifestyle than personalities -- drug users vs. non-drug users, etc. As for Carl "hitting bottom" in '78, that was largely a response to the breakup of his marriage to Annie. Thankfully, he recovered.

[adamghost]

Al was in a tough position.  On the one hand, he might not have agreed with the direction Mike was taking but on the other, he was an outsider to the Wilson family and had nothing in common with them lifestyle-wise in the late '70s and beyond.  Politically, he would have carried the least weight of the five original members despite having helmed Brother at one point.  When Dennis died and Carl had cleaned up, that dynamic changed.

[JimC1702]

Good thread!  I was thinking about starting something similar myself.  As the chubby younger brother in my family, I always identified with Carl.  I assume that he must have had a lot of loyalty to Brian but also to the rest of the band.  He had to have had a hard time balancing the two.   I'm sure he wanted the band to go on, and of course he had a family to support.  At the same time, I'm sure he wasn't pleased with the direction that Mike was steering the band.

It couldn't have been easy for him.

Jim

[Magic Transistor Radio]

This is very interesting. I haven't heard much of anything on their 80s and 90s relationships. However, I find it hard to believe that Carl and Bruce didn't get along. What would be the reason for that division? Does anybody know?

[the captain]

However, I find it hard to believe that Carl and Bruce didn't get along. What would be the reason for that division? Does anybody know?

Perhaps the substance behind the much-quoted statement of Bruce being only in it for the money, as opposed to Carl's more deep relationship (literally familial) with the band? I could imagine how if a person were so dedicated to the band itself, the music itself, etc., it would be problematic for someone else to have a purely (or at least significantly more) commercial outlook.

[Dancing Bear]

I believe that Bruce's quotes about being in it for the money are mostly the way he found to protect his own sanity from wacky band members and fans. He's Cousin It.

[the captain]

Doesn't bother me either way. I was just saying that may have been a cause of any rift w/ Carl (not that I have a clue--pure speculation).

As for BJ being in it for the money, as I've often said, that's fine with me. It tends to be uber-fans who care about such things, who apply some sort of religious vow of poverty and who venerate the art in it all. I say, hey, we all go to work to get paid. If you're lucky enough to be able to have thge BBs provide that check, good for you.

[Exapno Mapcase]

"I believe that Bruce's quotes about being in it for the money are mostly the way he found to protect his own sanity from wacky band members and fans."

Got to be.  Let's face it, he's not short of money.  It's not like he's got eight ex-wives to pay off.  He must get an income from his own stuff and isn't he independently wealthy due to his adopted parents?  Maybe he just enjoys this stuff.  Perhaps the reason Carl and Bruce might not have got on is that Bruce isn't exactly adventurous.  After all, here's the band member who already had a successful career independent of the BB yet, with the exception of one album, he's done nothing as a solo artist since 1965 (yeah, yeah, I know he's worked with others). Maybe he just likes doing what he does.

[c-man]

Wow...did I miss something?  I wasn't aware of any friction between Carl and Bruce in the '80s or '90s.  It's true Bruce is close to Mike, but Bruce wasn't a voting member, so I don't know if that mattered in any schism between Carl and Mike.  I just know that in interviews, they tended to pair them up Carl/Al and Mike/Bruce, and now I know that the locker room arrangement was that way too thanks to Emdeeh.  Every interview I've read of Bruce he praises Carl (even while Carl was still with us).  If anyone knows of real tension between Carl and Bruce, what was it about?

[Emdeeh]

I don't make that connection either, Craig.

[Exapno Mapcase]

I meant to say, "musically adventurous".  I don't want to give the impression  I  think our surviving surfer boy wouldn't risk his neck on an Amazon trek

[MBE]

Bruce is much odder then anyone here may know. He is really a split personality. When he is the "good" Bruce he is friendly with fans, supportive of the Wilson's and able to stay out of lawsuits.  The "bad" Bruce is a spolit rich kid. He can be mean to fans,, treat his assistents poorly, be very shallow. If he doesn't like something he will be nasty, if he does he can be very nice.  He seems to be realible as far as showing up at shows etc. I just think he would be the most dificult to get along with.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

The "bad" Bruce is a spolit rich kid. He can be mean to fans,, treat his assistents poorly, be very shallow.

Does anybody remember that AOL chat he participated in some years back? I seem to recall a few feathers getting ruffled then, just don't remember what had happened.

[Exapno Mapcase]

What's up with Bruce's voice these days?  He used to have the sweetest voice of any of the BBs (and I don't necessarily mean that as praise; it's just a fact).  Last time I saw the BBs, he barely sang at all, but did a superb, slightly strained version of Disney Girls and sang a little God Only Knows.  Has he had some problem with his throat?  We know about Dennis and BW's problems; Al's voice seems to be pretty much intact; I suspect Carl's cigarette intake roughened up his singing a little in the late 70svocal chords; and Mike's preference for singing nasally has irritated many people since the mid-70s, but Bruce...? I presume he doesn't (and didn't) smoke, so has he had surgery?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

His voice IMHO started to sound a bit different as far back as "Endless Harmony", but really became noticeable on "She Believes in Love Again". As for his voice now, I cannot say, because I haven't heard a vocal from him past 1992, so I can't judge.

From everything I've read, he hardly ever sings, and has been like that for a few years. Let's just put it this way...Adrian Baker did far more vocals on the 1998 Nascar thing than Bruce ,and actually, I wonder if Bruce even sang on the album.

Which means one of two things...
1) His voice must sound terrible these days

or

2). He doesn't care as long as he gets his pay check.

[Exapno Mapcase]

"I wonder if Bruce even sang on the album."

As far as I'm aware, he only contributed keyboards on (I think) Don't Worry Baby.

[MBE]

The "bad" Bruce is a spolit rich kid. He can be mean to fans,, treat his assistents poorly, be very shallow.

Does anybody remember that AOL chat he participated in some years back? I seem to recall a few feathers getting ruffled then, just don't remember what had happened.

Yeah I would love to hear about it. I do remember a chat where he derided fans saying the internet gives them too much info. He claims they find where he stays and bother him.

[c-man]

The "bad" Bruce is a spolit rich kid. He can be mean to fans,, treat his assistents poorly, be very shallow.

Does anybody remember that AOL chat he participated in some years back? I seem to recall a few feathers getting ruffled then, just don't remember what had happened.

Yeah I would love to hear about it. I do remember a chat where he derided fans saying the internet gives them too much info. He claims they find where he stays and bother him.

Well, that would probably bug me too.

[MBE]

Yeah it would bother me as well but I guess the way he said it was a little snotty to me. I understand the sentiments though

[bossaroo]

he walked out on two friends of mine in the middle of an interview when they said they liked the 'Love You' album.

Mike avoided them altogether.

just a little snotty...

[Exapno Mapcase]

Maybe they should've prefaced their comments with, "We really like your vocals on I'll Bet He's Nice..."

[matt-zeus]

As much as I don't like to take sides, I think Bruce is my least favourite of the BBs. Even though Mike is crazy, at least he has some balls and doesn't sit on the fence like Bruce. Also his production on LA and KTSA stinks!