The Steely Dan Thread pt.II

[no]

From the Fagen thread: A new Steely Dan thread for the new site. Let's kick it off...

"Bad Sneakers"

Paranoid mobster just wanting out?

References to a hot environment -- so, the "frozen rain" mentioned = snow = cocaine?

"When they gonna send me home?" = Death? As in, back to my maker?

Is "Bad Sneakers" a fellow buyer/dealer and one of petty grade? Is the narrator frightened for his life because he set this guy up? Is he recalling a bust that he's responsible for? -- Orders to meet at Radio City with a transistor (radio?) and large sum of money; a man  toting a radio seems to be an easy description of which to notify authorities, post-deal.

[dogbreath]

I've never probed too deeply into the Dan's lyrics. They sneak up on me sometimes when I'm not looking, and that's the way it should be. The words are as slippery as the music, and exist in a kind of half-light - is this jazz or pizza?

Oooff. Whenever I think I'm smart (less and less, incidentally) I put on the Dan and sleaze back into the naugahyde, cradling a boat drink and letting my resentment of George Clooney subside momentarily into the background as True Smarts waft insidiously from the speakers and coat my synapses in neon-lit tinsel. In fact, whenever I listen to any other music at all, and find myself thinking, "hotcha! These boys are hot stuff!" I slap a Dan disc onto th' old Victrola and come to my senses.

In terms of wry smarts, only Lowell's Feat comes close.

BRB. Just going to play the entire Dan catalog a few times.

[no]

Gotcha, dogbreath (Zappa ref, right?). Steely Dan's music is a rarity in that it's pretty much compatible with any human emotion or mood-swing and there's always something tugging at your ears, be it musical, conceptual, etc...

Chris D, are you gathering up the tears?

[Chris D.]

"Bad Sneakers"

Paranoid mobster just wanting out?

References to a hot environment -- so, the "frozen rain" mentioned = snow = cocaine?

"When they gonna send me home?" = Death? As in, back to my maker?

Is "Bad Sneakers" a fellow buyer/dealer and one of petty grade? Is the narrator frightened for his life because he set this guy up? Is he recalling a bust that he's responsible for? -- Orders to meet at Radio City with a transistor (radio?) and large sum of money; a man  toting a radio seems to be an easy description of which to notify authorities, post-deal.

This one always confused me a bit too.  I've seen some mobster interpretations out there.  The main character is kind of like the guy in "Daddy Don't Live in This New York City No More," except Daddy is literally impotent and he's dead.  The guy in "Bad Sneakers" just can't get out of the situation (impotent) and he's going insane (dead to society).  I'll say more about it after I think.

Chris D, are you gathering up the tears?

Sure, they're in my sack.  You and Ian can sing "Reelin' in the Years" at my wedding.

[no]

You and Ian can sing "Reelin' in the Years" at my wedding.

Here's to hoping we can top Prof's take on "FM."

[Chris D.]

You and Ian can sing "Reelin' in the Years" at my wedding.

Here's to hoping we can top Prof's take on "FM."

He's interpolation of "In the shade, lemonade / In the sun, ocean spray," was lewd, but apt.

Any fans of the recent Dan stuff?  I still need Everything Must Go, but I think Two Against Nature was pretty damn good.  Not as immediate as the earlier stuff, but I really like the growth on that album.  I wish I could hear more from their attempts at writing in the mid-80s.  "Jack of Speed" is a great track.

Also -- "The Bear."  Why the hell was this rejected from Gaucho?

[Chris D.]

Also -- I like the new name, Chemistry Crass.  I assume you're a fan too.  Or blissfully Asian.

[no]

"Systematic Death" has always been a favorite tune of mine, but unfortunately, the Merriam-Webster's definition of crass was floating in my head for this far too clever play on my screenname.

I do look to be at least 13% Asian. (And all of 14% counting stereotypal rumors).

[Chris D.]

bump

[no]

Wow. This thread foda-ing died a lonely death.

And to hit you back up since I see it's really just us, Chris, I have not purchased or heard "Everything Must Go" either. Contemporary releases can sometimes startle me with the older outfits and even Steely Dan; that whole, "I hope they haven't lost touch and seek to tarnish their image" thing.

I did enjoy the majority of "Two Against Nature," so I might have to just get over myself.

[Nick T.]

Hey guys!

I like "Two Against Nature" a bunch.  Hell, it was a shock it was so good; sort of in a BWPS way even.  It represents no decline whatsoever in quality from the Dan Mark I; that is, if you like Aja and Gaucho and their movement into their sonic realms.  But then again, if anyone would have the cajones to not suck, it would be the Dan.

To single out some faves: I really love "Almost Gothic"  crazily a Dan tune with almost zero irony in it; and most especially the two closing tracks--the hypnotic guitar figure at the end of "Negative Girl" and the complete driving force of West Of Hollywood.  These two really pick up musically where Gaucho left off with their extended "outros".  The sax work at the end of WOH is killer, it really turned jazz heads at the store when I played it.  From reading on the Morph thread below it seems Fagen is continuing the "extended groove" stuff.

Weren't they considering Jack Of Speed for the single?  I think they said-- evidently the record execs thought the kissing cousins theme of Dupree was a lesser risk than a saxophone solo on a single.

Haven't heard Everything Must Go either but I have heard great things about it from two people I trust.  I need to pick that up along with all the solo stuff (outside of Nightfly).  gotta see if I have The Bear somewhere as well and give it another listen.
 
Chris--do you find that the lyrics for II vs. Nurture are a little more upfront than their first era Dan?  The aforementioned Gothic and What A Shame About Me come to mind. They still plaster a grin on my puss though--I really love the opening lines about working at the Strand.


And now a word from our sponsors:

[I. Spaceman]

Haha, wait'll you hear me and Chris's upcoming rap n' wrestling jam "Hey N.T.".

[Chris D.]

Haha, so especial.  Yeah, the lyrics are a bit more up front, but it makes it sort of more insulting.  I like them.

You get at the fact that their perversity is what makes them go.  Naturally these guys, known for irony, will put out something like "Almost Gothic," which you say has no irony.  For them it makes perfect sense.  I think the extended, looser structures and more direct (but no less clever) lyrics are just natural progressions.  The reason their new stuff works is because it feels like their old work without replicating their old work.  These are progressions, but they sound close enough to not put off old fans.  I read an interview where they considered doing more electronic stuff when first conceptualizing Two Against Nature.  I think they were going to hint at some hip-hop, electronica influences, which would have been really interesting.  As Kool Keith said, "I'll throw urine on your mind."

I'm glad the Dan are back and seem to have found their place again.  Maybe I'm really overlooking something, but it seems like you don't get really intelligent, meta-music/social dissection in American music now.  In the 70s you had Steely Dan, The Residents, and Devo, which all sort of hit at once.  Now the field is pretty open.

[Chris D.]

Haha, wait'll you hear me and Chris's upcoming rap n' wrestling jam "Hey N.T.".

Y0 Y0 Y4'LL
T1T 4 T4T Y4'LL
FR0M M4ST3R P 2 SW33T N.T.
Y4'LL S33N TH4 L4T3ST FR0M A., W00DY?
H1Z M0V13Z US3D 2 SH00T D1R3CT
N0W TH4 L3NZ G0T S0M3 M4GNUM H00D13
N ST0P W4GN3RZ L1K3 4 C0LL3ST3R4L BULL3T STR41GHT THRU B1GG13

[I. Spaceman]

M3T4-S0C14L M3T4-S3XU4L L1K3 T1N4 Y0TH3RZ
3QU4LZ DR0PP1N S3QU3LZ L1K3 W4CH0WSK3 BR0TH3RZ
W3 G0TZ M0 STYL3Z TH4N TH4 SST D1SC0GR4PHY
R41N1N DR0PL3TZ 0F L0V3 UP0N TH4 F3M4L3 T0P0GR4PHY
C4LL M3 3R4S3RH34D C4LL H1M FR4NK B00TH
G0NN4 WR4P U 1N PL4ST1C B1TCH 1TZ TH4 TRUTH
R3Z1D3NT14L D3V0LUT10N CUMM1N 2 Y0UR T0WN
B3 TH3R3

[Chris D.]

Brilliant, man.  Spreadin' tha wacky like salt water taffy across George Patacki.  >cue telecaster sandstorm<

[I. Spaceman]

>cue telecaster sandstorm<

HAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! 

[Nick T.]

Shindiggy you guys are fast!

More up front but just as good, yep.  Even meaner and more curmudgeonly than ever.

The further ironic perversity of them putting out Gothic is that underneath the irony of putting out an irony free platter is the irony that they really mean it to be a tender thing--here it is, it's a sweet song, deal with it.  Or at least that's how I read it.

Their progressions work also because they are a natural growth and not some posing.  They're so serious they don't take themselves seriously.

The climate for intelligent, good music is weak.  I concur, shallow and pendantic.  Although some hip hop has tried that route just not lately--and the times are so ripe for parody!

[Nick T.]

Y0 Y0 Y4'LL
T1T 4 T4T Y4'LL
FR0M M4ST3R P 2 SW33T N.T.
Y4'LL S33N TH4 L4T3ST FR0M A., W00DY?
H1Z M0V13Z US3D 2 SH00T D1R3CT
N0W TH4 L3NZ G0T S0M3 M4GNUM H00D13
N ST0P W4GN3RZ L1K3 4 C0LL3ST3R4L BULL3T STR41GHT THRU B1GG13

M3T4-S0C14L M3T4-S3XU4L L1K3 T1N4 Y0TH3RZ
3QU4LZ DR0PP1N S3QU3LZ L1K3 W4CH0WSK3 BR0TH3RZ
W3 G0TZ M0 STYL3Z TH4N TH4 SST D1SC0GR4PHY
R41N1N DR0PL3TZ 0F L0V3 UP0N TH4 F3M4L3 T0P0GR4PHY
C4LL M3 3R4S3RH34D C4LL H1M FR4NK B00TH
G0NN4 WR4P U 1N PL4ST1C B1TCH 1TZ TH4 TRUTH
R3Z1D3NT14L D3V0LUT10N CUMM1N 2 Y0UR T0WN
B3 TH3R3

Man, I like the beats; but what are they sayin'? 


And wit your wrinkled PV55Y... (I can't be your lover)

[Chris D.]

Give me Tina Yothers pv55y, irony-free.

[no]

Are any of you guys aware of the time period in which most of the "2 VS N" material was written? Do any tracks date back to the mid-80's or possibly even "Gaucho" era?

[Chris D.]

Are any of you guys aware of the time period in which most of the "2 VS N" material was written? Do any tracks date back to the mid-80's or possibly even "Gaucho" era?

As far as I know most of it is new.  "Jack of Speed" is from the 80s, and "West of Hollywood" was, I think, from a fragment they had in the 80s.  Look online for interviews.  They talk about it.

Some quotes from Jam! Magazine, though:

Fagen: I think it was actually the fact that we were touring, I guess from '93 to '96 in the summer, we started to get a little bored playing the old songs. We had some new material from our solo albums that we were doing, but we just started collecting ideas for songs, naturally, from being thrown together on the road and in the studio, so we started writing songs in '97. Mostly the album was written in '97, then we recorded it in '98 and '99.

JAM!: So the nine songs on "Two Against Nature" were all written in '97?
 
 Fagen: Yeah, (but) as we've always done, we had fragments going back quite a ways, probably at least into the early-'80s. And so there were some pieces of things that came from earlier, but essentially they were all written in the past couple of years.
 
 JAM!: Could you give an example of an older fragment that surfaced on the new album?
 
 Fagen: Well, yes, actually, the material that forms the choruses of "West Of Hollywood" ...
 
 Becker: ... and the verses, too.
 
 Fagen: The verses, too? Really? Yeah, You're right. And the verses, too, were kind of rewritten out of a piece that we wrote in the '80s that was actually a reggae of some kind. We just never were really comfortable with the way we sang in reggae metre, so we started fooling around with it and it seemed to work with our idea for "West Of Hollywood".
 
 JAM!: What was the original "reggae" song called?
 
 Becker: It didn't have lyrics.
 
 Fagen: It never had any lyrics.
 
 JAM!: So it was from the period in '86-'87 when you made an attempt to write together?
 
 Fagen: Yeah.

Fagen: ... like a novelist or short-story writer. We have notes on lyrics and also notes on music, which are on cassettes ...
 
 Becker: ... and the fact that this was a couple of times. I remember when we first got together in the '80s and we were writing together, having to start out from scratch, essentially, was hard. And we ended up writing quite a few things back then that we either began or that were compete songs with no lyrics. And in one or two cases there were songs we actually finished, one of which was "Snowbound" (from Fagen's 1993 solo album, "Kamakiriad"). Just having that available got us past the most difficult part. Once you've written the songs, you just sort of go in and do them.

JAM!:Did you revisit anything like "Second Arrangement" or some of the songs that didn't end up on "Gaucho"?
 
 Becker: Well, "Second Arrangement", we have a pretty good recollection of. We looked at it at one point thinking we might want to play it live, and there were some other tunes from that period where we have tracks that we cut or that we worked on a little bit. But we weren't considering doing any of those for this record. The whole idea for us was to write new songs. If we wanted to go back and finish songs that we wrote in the '70s ...
 
 Fagen: ... we probably would've done it before now (laughs).
 
 Becker: Yeah, we probably would've done it before now.
 
 Fagen: We looked at that stuff, because when they put out the box set (1993's "Citizen Steely Dan"), they wanted to have extra material or demos, and we looked through the stuff -- and it had the same faults it had in the '70s.

JAM!: You've played "Jack Of Speed" on previous tours. Is it the oldest song on the new album?
 
 Becker: Yeah, not counting fragments, the "West Of Hollywood" sort of thing.

JAM!: "What A Shame About Me", like most of the songs on "Two Against Nature", revolves around sex.
 
 Fagen: I certainly hope so, for our sake.
 
 JAM!: It also has a very cruel ending. (Note: The song -- which appears to borrow part of its melody from "I Can't Function", a tune that dates all the way back to Fagen and Becker's 1968 demo tape -- is about a beautiful actress who bumps into an ex-classmate (the song's male narrator), who turns down her overtures to go to her hotel and "make believe we're back at our old school".)

[no]

I often wonder why "Kulee Baba" didn't make the "Gaucho" cut. It's just gorgeous. Maybe too similar to the "Aja" sound?

[Chris D.]

I don't know.  I'm amazed at how much material was dropped, but maybe that's typical for them and only this much has been booted.

[monkee knutz]

I've never probed too deeply into the Dan's lyrics.

"The Cuervo Gold. The fine Columbian. Makes tonight a wonderful thing."
What more do you need?